AOC's latest gaffe shows just how expensive Medicare for all would be

[dead0man]

And if we're talking about fitness for Congress, it makes sense to address the presidency too, but that would require several new threads for the 2 years worth of insane statements/actions of Donald J. Trump.

do you think we've missed something?  That would be weird.

[dead0man]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

Lol it doesn't take a professional to see that conservatives' focus on liberal women like Pelosi and AOC is because they are deeply misogynist.

First it's ignorantly said that I don't make fun of Trump enough, now I'm a woman hater too?  Funny!

Imagine, if you will, if someone you guys didn't like had, lets say, added an "e" to the end of word that didn't normally have an "e" at the end, or asked what an "aleppo" was....how would you react?   Now what if that person just kept doing things like that?  Yeah, we have a stupid President.  I 100% agree.  AOC is nowhere near as evil/narcissistic/up her own ass as Trump is either.  But she ain't smart, or at least she's not smart enough to keep her mouth shut when she doesn't know something.

Like I've said before, if you want to be blind to this fact, that's fine (it actually adds a lot to the comedy of the situation, so I thank you for that), most of you will see it in time.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

AOC has no idea what she is doing, not does she particularly care.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

AOC has no idea what she is doing, not does she particularly care.

If true, she'd make a perfect Atlas poster.

[Blair]

This isn't a gaffe- it's a minor argument over policy where surprise surprise someone who hasn't got a PHD in health policy made a mistake.

[dead0man]

This isn't a gaffe- it's a minor argument over policy where surprise surprise someone who hasn't got a PHD in health policy made a mistake.

you're misunderstanding my point.  The gaffe was her thinking the DoD had $21T lost somewhere, they haven't.  Their budget for it's entire history isn't $21T.  (to be fair, the DoD looks much worse here than AOC.  The accounting is just complete ass.  It doesn't matter if it's incompetence, on purpose or just because of the size of the bureaucracy, it needs to get fixed.  Freaking ridiculous.)  Her suggesting this money could be used to help, I believe the numbers were that $21T would fund 2/3rds of a ten year plan, just points out how stinking expensive it would be.

[muon2]

I'm curious why Dems have totally forgotten their universal multi-payer HC plan from the pre-Obama days, it was best described in the bill filed by Sen Wyden as the Healthy Americans Act. It completely removed the employer supplied plans and put everyone in state exchanges, paid for by employer and employee taxes, and offset by deductions and required wage hikes to match prior employer health care costs. From the public consumer side it was more like the German model than the French single-payer model.

Preliminary CBO estimates rated it as revenue neutral. Naturally, discussion of the idea disappeared when employer-based Obamacare became the focus. But when talk turned to creating a truly universal plan beyond Obamacare, this idea seems to have vanished.

[Person Man]

I'm curious why Dems have totally forgotten their universal multi-payer HC plan from the pre-Obama days, it was best described in the bill filed by Sen Wyden as the Healthy Americans Act. It completely removed the employer supplied plans and put everyone in state exchanges, paid for by employer and employee taxes, and offset by deductions and required wage hikes to match prior employer health care costs. From the public consumer side it was more like the German model than the French single-payer model.

Preliminary CBO estimates rated it as revenue neutral. Naturally, discussion of the idea disappeared when employer-based Obamacare became the focus. But when talk turned to creating a truly universal plan beyond Obamacare, this idea seems to have vanished.

We kind of have that already for people not getting benefits through work.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Careful, she'll quote-tweet you to get her army of followers after you, and then when you delete she'll screenshot it to make a further example of you.

[Badger]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

[Badger]

We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world, so obviously we can't afford to have some other healthcare system.

[fhtagn]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

Cortez Derangement Syndrome

I've said at least 40 bad things about Trump for every bad thing I've said about AOC.

I wish I had a dollar for every time an Atlas leftist used "but Trump!" as a response to criticism of a Democratic candidate.

[Badger]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

Cortez Derangement Syndrome

I've said at least 40 bad things about Trump for every bad thing I've said about AOC.

I wish I had a dollar for every time an Atlas leftist used "but Trump!" as a response to criticism of a Democratic candidate.

To all, maybe because, a, trump literally says 10 times more stupid things, both in terms of quality and quantity, then literally every Democrat combined, and what's more B, AOC is a freshman Congress Woman versus Trump being the freaking POTUS makes 8 just teensy-weensy little bit of difference in importance.

Seriously. Ignoring the absolute sh**tbird craziness from Trump versus whatever latest gaffe AOC says is like ignoring armed robbery buy one side and focusing on jaywalking by the other. Justice response is literally as silly as saying I wish I had a dollar for everytime Democrats pointed out Trump's armed robbery for every time we point out some random Congress crater commits jaywalking.

[fhtagn]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

Cortez Derangement Syndrome

I've said at least 40 bad things about Trump for every bad thing I've said about AOC.

I wish I had a dollar for every time an Atlas leftist used "but Trump!" as a response to criticism of a Democratic candidate.

To all, maybe because, a, trump literally says 10 times more stupid things, both in terms of quality and quantity, then literally every Democrat combined, and what's more B, AOC is a freshman Congress Woman versus Trump being the freaking POTUS makes 8 just teensy-weensy little bit of difference in importance.

Seriously. Ignoring the absolute sh**tbird craziness from Trump versus whatever latest gaffe AOC says is like ignoring armed robbery buy one side and focusing on jaywalking by the other. Justice response is literally as silly as saying I wish I had a dollar for everytime Democrats pointed out Trump's armed robbery for every time we point out some random Congress crater commits jaywalking.

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

[fhtagn]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

So what? That doesn't prevent Republican troglodytes from attacking her while ignoring their own know-nothingism.

[Badger]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

But the point remains, shouldn't this role perhaps, just possibly, apply a teensy-weensy bit more to the president of the United States then to a fresh woman in Congress? Particularly when by any meaningful objective standards the former does so on a far far greater and more numerous basis?

[muon2]

I'm curious why Dems have totally forgotten their universal multi-payer HC plan from the pre-Obama days, it was best described in the bill filed by Sen Wyden as the Healthy Americans Act. It completely removed the employer supplied plans and put everyone in state exchanges, paid for by employer and employee taxes, and offset by deductions and required wage hikes to match prior employer health care costs. From the public consumer side it was more like the German model than the French single-payer model.

Preliminary CBO estimates rated it as revenue neutral. Naturally, discussion of the idea disappeared when employer-based Obamacare became the focus. But when talk turned to creating a truly universal plan beyond Obamacare, this idea seems to have vanished.

We kind of have that already for people not getting benefits through work.

"Kind of" is the operative phrase, and I would say only barely "kind of". The current system isn't universal so there are still a lot of uninsured people out there. By leaving employer-based plans in place, too many areas lack the necessary participation by insurers. By taxing indirectly as a penalty, too many people opt out raising premiums for those who stay in. Wyden's plan would have addressed all that by taxing directly and mandating participation, thereby creating a truly universal and sustainable system.

[MAINEiac4434]

Soon she will call for the government to seize the means of production. Are these the type of people we want in congress?

Yes

[fhtagn]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

So what? That doesn't prevent Republican troglodytes from attacking her while ignoring their own know-nothingism.

Then reply to them, because nothing I said suggests Republicans get a free pass too.

[fhtagn]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

But the point remains, shouldn't this role perhaps, just possibly, apply a teensy-weensy bit more to the president of the United States then to a fresh woman in Congress? Particularly when by any meaningful objective standards the former does so on a far far greater and more numerous basis?

I'm not sure what part of "That applies to any politician, including Trump" is so difficult for you to understand. When Trump says dumb things, he deserves to be called out on it. When AOC says dumb things, she deserves it too. If people are dumb to think that being new to politics gives her a free pass, then the same should apply to Trump. To think otherwise is just being a hypocrite.

[7,052,770]

I'm no fan of AOC.
That said, conservatives' obsession with her (especially when they turn a blind eye to the constant stream of BS flowing from the White House) is deeply disturbing and ought to be studied by psychiatrists.

Cortez Derangement Syndrome

I've said at least 40 bad things about Trump for every bad thing I've said about AOC.

Maybe, but you definitely post more negative things about AOC than any other member of Congress, even though she still wouldn't be in the top 100 dumbest Congressmen if all her critics turn out to be right.

[Sestak]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

But the point remains, shouldn't this role perhaps, just possibly, apply a teensy-weensy bit more to the president of the United States then to a fresh woman in Congress? Particularly when by any meaningful objective standards the former does so on a far far greater and more numerous basis?

I'm not sure what part of "That applies to any politician, including Trump" is so difficult for you to understand. When Trump says dumb things, he deserves to be called out on it. When AOC says dumb things, she deserves it too. If people are dumb to think that being new to politics gives her a free pass, then the same should apply to Trump. To think otherwise is just being a hypocrite.

um
Except it isn't because Trump is in a much more powerful position. Trump being new to politics doesn't affect his power that much because there's only one president and he has vast powers designated by the constitution.

AOC, on the other hand, has her power noticeably reduced by her freshman status because seniority matters a lot in the House. So not identical situations at all.

[fhtagn]

Being a freshman Congresswoman isn't an excuse for making such uninformed statements to the public. If she doesn't understand what she's talking about, as she's clearly displayed many times, she shouldn't talk about it like she does. That applies to any politician, including Trump. When she continues doing this, people are right to call her out on it. She doesn't deserve a free pass.

As much as the left wants to claim that the right has an obsession with AOC, they really should be questioning why she brings criticism upon herself so often instead of staying quiet on issues she doesn't understand and preparing for her new job.

Your criticism would have been more credible if the majority of the Republican caucus weren't climate change deniers and creationists.

Your response would have been taken seriously if you bothered to read where I said this applied to any politician.

But the point remains, shouldn't this role perhaps, just possibly, apply a teensy-weensy bit more to the president of the United States then to a fresh woman in Congress? Particularly when by any meaningful objective standards the former does so on a far far greater and more numerous basis?

I'm not sure what part of "That applies to any politician, including Trump" is so difficult for you to understand. When Trump says dumb things, he deserves to be called out on it. When AOC says dumb things, she deserves it too. If people are dumb to think that being new to politics gives her a free pass, then the same should apply to Trump. To think otherwise is just being a hypocrite.

um
Except it isn't because Trump is in a much more powerful position. Trump being new to politics doesn't affect his power that much because there's only one president and he has vast powers designated by the constitution.

AOC, on the other hand, has her power noticeably reduced by her freshman status because seniority matters a lot in the House. So not identical situations at all.

All politicians should be held to that standard, regardless of position and how much power they hold.