S.18.4-28: Electric Car Chargers on Parking Lots Act - Vetoed
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  S.18.4-28: Electric Car Chargers on Parking Lots Act - Vetoed
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Author Topic: S.18.4-28: Electric Car Chargers on Parking Lots Act - Vetoed  (Read 1128 times)
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« on: December 18, 2018, 11:12:58 PM »
« edited: January 12, 2019, 06:33:45 PM by Southern Dep. Speaker Dwarven Dragon »

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Sponsor: Tack50
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 10:01:45 AM »

Thank you. As you may know, electric cars have several problems with their implementation, one of the largest being autonomy and the fact that you can't fill them up with gas in a matter of minutes like with a gasoline or diesel car, but instead have to wait for hours to get them to fully charge. This limits their uses to only a very small niche.

This bill tries to change this by having all parking lots have at least a few electric car chargers. That way people can charge their car at work, or if they are running out of electricity, simply go to a rest spot (which you should do in long trips anyways), take a meal and a walk and by the time they are back their car will be mostly charged.

Also, I designed the bill to not affect current parking lots unless they are already doing major reforms (so at that point they might as well install them) and to not make them fully mandatory until 15 years from now (by which point I hope electric cars are a lot more common)

Inspired by seeing a few electric car chargers at a shopping centre where I live, which I think is a good idea.

One of the biggest causes of polution comes from traffic. Hopefully this kind of measure can increase the percentage of vehicles that are electric or plug-in hybrid by minimizing some of their disadvantages
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 06:31:08 PM »

Splendid legislation. I plan on voting for it.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 07:14:34 PM »

Is there any data on how much it costs to set these up and maintain?
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2018, 07:18:35 AM »

I haven't been able to find data on mainteinance costs, but the installation cost seems to be (for 2014) ranging between 50 000 and 100 000$ per charger, albeit going down as technology progresses.

https://www.fleetcarma.com/dc-fast-charging-guide/
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2018, 08:00:15 PM »

Motion for a final vote
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2018, 08:51:05 PM »

No objection
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2018, 09:08:15 PM »

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tmthforu94
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 09:53:44 PM »

Objection.

Do we have any projections/data on how many cars will be electric in the coming decades? This is a hefty financial burden that we are passing on to businesses as well as taxpayer spending for government buildings, I’d like to ensure it’s importance before passing this expense on to the taxpayer/consumer.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 11:44:53 PM »

Motion fails
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2018, 08:03:18 AM »

The most common estimate I've found seems to be that around 15% marketshare by 2030, but with new sales being around 50% or so.

I also tried to adress it in a way where at first it would only affect larger businesses, with large parking lots, where the extra cost will be smaller as a % of the total construction or reform project.

If necessary Section III.2 and III.3 could in theory be ammended as well to also give them limits, or maybe defining what a "major reform" is (if it's not defined elsewhere)
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 10:17:27 PM »

Pursuant to the following clause in the Chamber Rules:
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I hereby motion for cloture on the legislation so that we can move to a final vote.

Delegates shall vote AYE or NAY on the motion to invoke cloture on the legislation. A 2/3 majority is needed for passage.

AYE
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CMB222
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2018, 01:14:37 AM »

Nay, this needs to be discussed more thouroughly
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2018, 08:27:45 AM »

Aye
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2018, 04:08:41 PM »

Nay
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2018, 05:03:26 PM »

As a 2/3 majority is now impossible, the motion fails. Debate continues.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2018, 12:43:27 AM »

Thank you Chamber for delaying a vote. Sorry for the wait, I was with family for the Christmas holiday and was much busier with RL activities than anticipated.

First, I want to thank Delegate Tack50 for writing this bill and introducing it. While we have passed a lot of legislation in 2018, most of it has come from a couple experienced players, so I'm glad to see new folks taking initiative and hope to see more great things from you!

Regarding the bill specifics, as noted above, I have concern about the financial implications this will have on both the public and private sector, and I'll elaborate. Electric cars accounted 1.13% of the total automobile market share in 2017. Considering the current demographics of those able to purchase an electric car and the total percentage of Americans who own a car, the % of Americans solely relying on an electric vehicle is likely significantly fewer. While I understand the desire to think long-term, Bloomberg is projecting 30% of cars will be electric in 2030, which is near the current timeframe for this.

I think market demand over time will work itself out, I could see supporting a bill like this in 10 years once we know that electric cars are becoming more prevalent. I currently don't see this as something the government should be mandating. As it stands I don't see the demand as being high, the only place in the country where I could see this going over well is California, so maybe it is something Fremont could consider. There is going to be a high cost of setting up and upkeep for a product that isn't going to be reaping benefits for probably a decade, at least. An alternative I would suggest is providing tax incentives to businesses that provide these charging ports.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2018, 07:04:30 AM »

I undeerstand the concerns, and indeed electric cars are a minority of cars, though I tried to make the bill as small of a concern as possible to not put too big of a burden to businsesses.

Still, to try to get the bill going (as opposed to tabling it), I present the following ammendment, to try and fix those concerns:

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I also welcome any other ideas and further ammendments people may have to improve the bill.
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CMB222
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2018, 10:40:53 AM »

I think the amendment is better but there still needs to be work done on this. I think that if electric cars do become more relevant, chargers for them are going to start showing up anyway to meet demand. But if we do really want these chargers to be installed, the requirements for them should be taken out and there should just be a tax break for whoever installs them. In conclusion, i am basically in agreement with the Governor on this.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2018, 05:46:43 PM »

As no one objected, the amendment is adopted.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2019, 01:28:25 AM »

Mr. Governor, your thoughts?
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2019, 04:51:23 PM »

The amendment is an improvement, I'm still not sure requiring a mandate on a product that is unproven is the best way to go. My preference would be just having this as a tax credit. If the legislature supports the mandate route, I'd ask that at least be pushed out to 5 years+. If you perform construction on a parking lot in 6 months that require this, odds are that by the time electric cars get to the point of relevancy, you'll have to do another construction project!
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2019, 04:55:46 PM »

You could also hypothetically limit the requirement to certain types of venues, such as hospitals and abortion clinics.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2019, 08:16:45 PM »

The amendment is an improvement, I'm still not sure requiring a mandate on a product that is unproven is the best way to go. My preference would be just having this as a tax credit. If the legislature supports the mandate route, I'd ask that at least be pushed out to 5 years+. If you perform construction on a parking lot in 6 months that require this, odds are that by the time electric cars get to the point of relevancy, you'll have to do another construction project!

You mean having the law not apply until 5 years from now? That seems fine I guess (if a bit on the long side). I do think the mandate is better than just a tax credit, especially since the cost will be (partly) subsidized and I don't view a 3% mandate for something with a 1% market share (and growing, hopefully) as too large of a burden. Plus as a mandate it ensures future drivers that there will be a charger wherever they go (as opposed to that being just getting lucky)


You could also hypothetically limit the requirement to certain types of venues, such as hospitals and abortion clinics.

Ironically, if I was looking towards limiting the requirement to certain types of venues, hospitals and abortion clinics would be among the last I'd include Tongue
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2019, 03:04:23 PM »

The amendment is an improvement, I'm still not sure requiring a mandate on a product that is unproven is the best way to go. My preference would be just having this as a tax credit. If the legislature supports the mandate route, I'd ask that at least be pushed out to 5 years+. If you perform construction on a parking lot in 6 months that require this, odds are that by the time electric cars get to the point of relevancy, you'll have to do another construction project!

You mean having the law not apply until 5 years from now? That seems fine I guess (if a bit on the long side). I do think the mandate is better than just a tax credit, especially since the cost will be (partly) subsidized and I don't view a 3% mandate for something with a 1% market share (and growing, hopefully) as too large of a burden. Plus as a mandate it ensures future drivers that there will be a charger wherever they go (as opposed to that being just getting lucky)
I'm just not seeing enough long-term, solid evidence indicating that electric cars will be a sizable share of the market force in the next 20-30 years. If the need arises, I believe that the market will respond on it's own without mandates.
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