SB 8608: National Housing Trust Fund Expansion Act (Passed)
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  SB 8608: National Housing Trust Fund Expansion Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: SB 8608: National Housing Trust Fund Expansion Act (Passed)  (Read 3264 times)
Sestak
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« on: December 29, 2018, 12:18:49 AM »
« edited: June 18, 2019, 09:26:45 PM by Lumine »

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Pericles
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 01:00:52 AM »

The National Housing Trust Fund is the first new federal housing resource in a generation exclusively targeted to help build and preserve housing affordable to people with the lowest incomes. However, more needs to be done. Too many people in Atlasia are burdened with huge costs of living, and this contributes to our deeply concerning level of homelessness, which we must act to reduce.
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An increase to $5.0 billion annually for the Trust Fund would help Atlasia provide more affordable housing for its citizens, and this is funded progressively and fairly. I hope the Senate will act on this legislation and pass it, so we can help those who look to us for help.
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Pericles
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 01:07:50 AM »

Made a typo in the title, introducing this amendment to rectify it.
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Sestak
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2018, 01:24:59 AM »

As this is a non-substantive amendment, as PPT I hereby declare it adopted.
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Sestak
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 04:49:30 PM »

How much funding is currently appropriated for this?
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Pericles
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 04:53:32 PM »

How much funding is currently appropriated for this?

I don't know the exact amount but given the cost I think it's probable the bill is fully funded.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 07:11:50 AM »

How much funding is currently appropriated for this?

I don't know the exact amount but given the cost I think it's probable the bill is fully funded.

Why do you think that? Did you review any numbers before deciding on the funding source? Or did you just add an unknown variable to bullschit your way past paygo?
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Pericles
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 02:04:26 PM »

How much funding is currently appropriated for this?

I don't know the exact amount but given the cost I think it's probable the bill is fully funded.

Why do you think that? Did you review any numbers before deciding on the funding source? Or did you just add an unknown variable to bullschit your way past paygo?

It's called common sense. It's obvious this passes Paygo, and you should get on and certify that if you're so concerned about this bill rather than sniping at legislators.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 02:34:08 PM »

How much funding is currently appropriated for this?

I don't know the exact amount but given the cost I think it's probable the bill is fully funded.

Why do you think that? Did you review any numbers before deciding on the funding source? Or did you just add an unknown variable to bullschit your way past paygo?

It's called common sense. It's obvious this passes Paygo, and you should get on and certify that if you're so concerned about this bill rather than sniping at legislators.

Tax adjustments aren't exactly the easiest changes to score, especially when there is a backlog, I have a life and you keep randomly adding them piecemeal to unrelated bills rather than just writing a comprehensive tax reform bill. When I was in the Senate I at least tried to provide some estimate of the net effect of my bills, usually because that data was readily available from the research I put into the bills.
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YE
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 07:32:03 PM »
« Edited: January 11, 2019, 07:36:08 PM by FM YE »

Can't the Senate motion to waive paygo rules? It'd be nice if bills had a rough idea on what they would cost before hand instead of blindly raising rates in the future but it's not like this is a serious tax hike.
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MAINEiac4434
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 10:31:58 PM »

This clearly passes Paygo (which we need to trash already), so I’m not sure what all the fuss is about.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 12:41:52 AM »

This clearly passes Paygo (which we need to trash already), so I’m not sure what all the fuss is about.

It saddens me that the left has taken its policy towards deficits straight from Dick Cheney.

We don't need to trash paygo, we need to stop writing trash bills.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 12:43:27 AM »

Also I am not satisfied that these numbers equal out to each other.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 12:46:44 AM »

Lastly, while most of the discussion has focused on the ability to raise the money to fund this, an important item no doubt, but my most pressing concern is what are we getting for the $5 billion to the trust fund. What can the trust fund accomplish with that money and how much of an impact will have on the problem?

It is easy to throw money at a problem and say "we did something", it is entirely different to actually dig deep into a problem, identify the root causes and then actually fix something that makes people's lives better and that is what we need to be doing here.

Why is there a shortage of housing and what causes the shortage of housing? What policies at the federal level are contributing this? What policies at the regional level are contributing to this? How can we best change these policies to get a better impact on the situation?
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Sestak
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 12:30:57 AM »

Guys, whether or not this "obviously passes Paygo" I'd still like to know how much is currently appropriated. Are we looking at a 20% increase here? A doubling? A tenfold increase?
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 07:15:54 AM »

Guys, whether or not this "obviously passes Paygo" I'd still like to know how much is currently appropriated. Are we looking at a 20% increase here? A doubling? A tenfold increase?

Quick GM numbers:

The amount of the trust fund fluctuates by year but usually falls around $200 Million. In 2018 it was an all time high of $267 million, with $174 Million allocated in 2016 and $219 Million in 2017.

This bill would increase the allocation 18.7 fold (1,870%) over 2018 spending and would lock in the new massive spending levels going forward on future budgets.
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Sestak
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2019, 12:37:26 PM »

My question is: if this is such a dramatic increase, are we really sure this serves as the best vehicle to do this?
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Pericles
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 03:17:53 PM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2019, 04:27:34 PM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.

Out of curiosity can you link to the study demonstrating that this is good value for the money? It very well might be, but a GAO study showing this would be helpful.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 01:10:14 PM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.
Those Republican Senators support that because it is fundamentally a corporate welfare handout that benefits the rich.
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Pericles
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2019, 01:24:45 PM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.
Those Republican Senators support that because it is fundamentally a corporate welfare handout that benefits the rich.

That's a pretty spicy hottake right there. Can you explain how it has any basis in reality?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2019, 12:09:11 AM »

I would be satisfied if anybody would be obliged to explain anything in this thread. Tongue While pointing to two Republican Senators as shining examples of bipartisan support might work in real life, you might have failed to notice that the Federalist Party is not the Republican Party and for good reasons. Many times Republicans are just as happy to balloon the deficit and/or put special interests ahead of common sense and reason and I prefer not to repeat the mistakes of real life politicians when we are in many ways less corrupt and in some cases smarter.


That being said, can someone explain to me how this functions? Does this guarantee loans, does it subsidize housing prices, do these dollars magically turn into an affordable house in Dayton, Ohio? Even if we presume that each other understands all of these programs (which is misguided since for once I am ignorant of the situation), we also have to consider everybody else.

Now just explain in simple terms, doesn't have to be complicated or long, how this works from a nuts and bolts perspective and what marginal benefit we gain from this increase.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2019, 04:02:06 AM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.

Out of curiosity can you link to the study demonstrating that this is good value for the money? It very well might be, but a GAO study showing this would be helpful.

I would like to see this as well if Pericles is able to provide it.
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YE
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2019, 03:52:03 AM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.
Those Republican Senators support that because it is fundamentally a corporate welfare handout that benefits the rich.

That's a pretty spicy hottake right there. Can you explain how it has any basis in reality?

I'm looking into this specific issue now but that's often how politics in DC work, and after the Great Recession (which was caused in part by Bill Clinton making it too easy to give out loans to people who couldn't even pay them back), I'm wary about anything any corporate sellout trying to propose something that sounds good, seeing IRL it screwed my state over bigly.
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Pericles
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2019, 04:00:13 AM »

What Mr R leaves out from his numbers is the context that I believe shows this is a mainstream proposal. Irl, Republican Senators Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo proposed an amendment that would increase funding for the trust fund to $3.75 billion, this is similar to that though admittedly somewhat greater(I do consider myself more left-wing than Ron Johnson and Mike Crapo). link As I've explained, this would be a worthwhile increase and this program serves an important mission in providing affordable housing. Furthermore, $5 billion isn't that much in the grand scheme of the wider budget, and given the original funding for this is rather small, using percentages does not tell you everything. This program is good value for money-better than most, and Senators can rest assured this is not some crazy tax and spend pie in the sky liberal thinking here but an eminnently reasonable, mainstream and affordable proposal.
Those Republican Senators support that because it is fundamentally a corporate welfare handout that benefits the rich.

That's a pretty spicy hottake right there. Can you explain how it has any basis in reality?

I'm looking into this specific issue now but that's often how politics in DC work, and after the Great Recession (which was caused in part by Bill Clinton making it too easy to give out loans to people who couldn't even pay them back), I'm wary about anything any corporate sellout trying to propose something that sounds good, seeing IRL it screwed my state over bigly.

Well yeah corporate welfare does exist but LT just went and called it corporate welfare without offering any evidence to back him up, and I haven't found anything that would back up such a claim.
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