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  If US/Russia/China are top 3 countries in world, who are #4-12?
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Author Topic: If US/Russia/China are top 3 countries in world, who are #4-12?  (Read 923 times)
Blue3
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« on: January 01, 2019, 11:12:03 pm »

I think it would be safe to say that the United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the People's Republic of China are the most powerful and influential countries in the world right now.

If we take that as a given... which countries are #4-12?

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Tender Branson
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 03:15:14 am »

4 is definitely Germany.

5-7 are UK, France and Japan.

8 is probably Saudi Arabia.

9-10 are either India or Iran.

11 is Austria.

12 is North Korea.
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JGibson
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 03:50:04 am »

4 Germany
5 UK
6 Japan
7 France
8 India
9 Iran
10 South Korea
11 Saudi Arabia
12 Brazil

HMs: Turkey, Israel, Australia, Canada, South Africa
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 03:56:49 am »
« Edited: January 02, 2019, 04:26:25 am by Parrotguy »

4. Germany
5. Japan
6. France
7. UK
8. India
9. Saudi Arabia
10. Israel
11. Turkey
12. Canada
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dead0man
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 11:28:45 am »

top at what?  "being the best, all things taken into consideration"?
1.USA
2.Germany
3.UK
4.France
5.Japan
6.Russia
7.Italy
8.Canada
9.India
10.China
11.Brazil
12.S.Korea

Best military?
1.USA
2.Russia
3.France
4.UK
5.Japan
6.PRC
7.Germany
8.India
9.Turkey
10.Israel
11.Italy
12.S.Korea

I have biases against the PRC, Turkey and Russia and biases for US, Japan, Germany and Israel, so enjoy some salt with the above.
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🅰 🦀 @k 🎂
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 02:32:29 pm »

11 is Austria.


Tender don't sell your home country short. Austria is clearly in 4th place.
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 02:42:57 pm »

I think it would be safe to say that the United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the People's Republic of China are the most powerful and influential countries in the world right now.

If we take that as a given... which countries are #4-12?



Russia is not by any stretch of the imagination #3. They have a smaller economy than Italy, have essentially no real allies, and their crumbling military power allows them to project force only in a small region immediately surrounding their borders, and poorly. The only reason some perceive them as such is because they are an isolated power, and so uses of their limited power and influence is more visible than the (mostly) U.S. aligned more significant nations.

I'd say 6th would be generous (after Germany, France, and Japan), and only because of their UNSC seat (which they don't deserve anyways).
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 03:53:59 pm »
« Edited: January 02, 2019, 03:59:24 pm by Tintrlvr »

top at what?  "being the best, all things taken into consideration"?
1.USA
2.Germany
3.UK
4.France
5.Japan
6.Russia
7.Italy
8.Canada
9.India
10.China
11.Brazil
12.S.Korea

Best military?
1.USA
2.Russia
3.France
4.UK
5.Japan
6.PRC
7.Germany
8.India
9.Turkey
10.Israel
11.Italy
12.S.Korea

I have biases against the PRC, Turkey and Russia and biases for US, Japan, Germany and Israel, so enjoy some salt with the above.

Feels like Pakistan should be on the military list somewhere. And I think you're selling South Korea short on military power. Less than Italy, whose military is basically irrelevant? I guess I'd put South Korea as 10 ahead of Israel (Israel has more regular combat experience but South Korea is highly trained and high-tech as well and also their military is much, much bigger) and Pakistan as 12, kicking Italy off, though I might downgrade Germany further as well, possibly even to the point of dropping them off the list. Saudi Arabia maybe should be there, too; they do at least spend a lot on their military. They could slot in at #12 if Germany is removed.
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dead0man
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2019, 04:07:23 pm »

S.Arabia has a lot of toys, but there isn't much evidence they know how to use them.  I agree with you on Italy, I overrated them.  There should be an asterisk next to Russia as well.  Give 3-7 a couple years build up and I think any one of them could embarrass the Russian military....assuming it doesn't go nuclear.
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Blue3
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2019, 09:21:16 pm »

top at what?  "being the best, all things taken into consideration"?
1.USA
2.Germany
3.UK
4.France
5.Japan
6.Russia
7.Italy
8.Canada
9.India
10.China
11.Brazil
12.S.Korea

Best military?
1.USA
2.Russia
3.France
4.UK
5.Japan
6.PRC
7.Germany
8.India
9.Turkey
10.Israel
11.Italy
12.S.Korea

I have biases against the PRC, Turkey and Russia and biases for US, Japan, Germany and Israel, so enjoy some salt with the above.

Most powerful and influential, as I say in my OP.

This is the new version of an older thread, which you posted in:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=197968.0
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Proto
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 10:18:27 pm »


Russia is not by any stretch of the imagination #3. They have a smaller economy than Italy, have essentially no real allies, and their crumbling military power allows them to project force only in a small region immediately surrounding their borders, and poorly. The only reason some perceive them as such is because they are an isolated power, and so uses of their limited power and influence is more visible than the (mostly) U.S. aligned more significant nations.

I'd say 6th would be generous (after Germany, France, and Japan), and only because of their UNSC seat (which they don't deserve anyways).
Absolutely. Russian economy is weak, living standards low. Putin boasts of having some super-mega-weapons, but actually Russian forces in Syria display helplessness and inability to fight. Several Russian planes and helicopters were downed without any retaliation from  Putin. They suffered much heavier losses than Americans. Only a person duped by
Russian propaganda can believe Russia is a "top" world country.
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Blue3
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 10:25:59 pm »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
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Proto
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 10:37:39 pm »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
They could do all of this only because Putin turned out stronger than Obama. As soon as Putin leaves Russia will collapse. Can you say that the USA will collapse after Trump quits?
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Blue3
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 11:36:03 pm »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
They could do all of this only because Putin turned out stronger than Obama. As soon as Putin leaves Russia will collapse. Can you say that the USA will collapse after Trump quits?
That is far from certain.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2019, 12:26:32 am »

4. Germany
5. France
6. United Kingdom
7. Italy
8. Japan
9. India
10. Brazil
11. Israel
12. Iran
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Proto
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2019, 01:46:43 am »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
They could do all of this only because Putin turned out stronger than Obama. As soon as Putin leaves Russia will collapse. Can you say that the USA will collapse after Trump quits?
That is far from certain.
What is far from certain? That Russia will collapse if Putin quits? Or that the US will collapse if Trump quits?
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Blind Jaunting
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2019, 03:24:46 am »

S.Arabia has a lot of toys, but there isn't much evidence they know how to use them.  I agree with you on Italy, I overrated them.  There should be an asterisk next to Russia as well.  Give 3-7 a couple years build up and I think any one of them could embarrass the Russian military....assuming it doesn't go nuclear.

The only thing that maintain the illusion of Russia being among "leading powers" is their post-Soviet nuclear arsenal. In terms of economy, infrastructure and conventional military capability they're lagging behind significantly.
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Proto
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2019, 05:05:23 am »
« Edited: January 03, 2019, 05:35:07 am by Proto »


The only thing that maintain the illusion of Russia being among "leading powers" is their post-Soviet nuclear arsenal. In terms of economy, infrastructure and conventional military capability they're lagging behind significantly.
Yes, plus Russia is a permanent member of UN Security Council and as such can block initiatives of democratic nations on international level, which is completely unacceptable.
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Blue3
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2019, 07:57:45 am »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
They could do all of this only because Putin turned out stronger than Obama. As soon as Putin leaves Russia will collapse. Can you say that the USA will collapse after Trump quits?
That is far from certain.
What is far from certain? That Russia will collapse if Putin quits? Or that the US will collapse if Trump quits?
the obvious one, that Russia would collapse.
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Proto
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2019, 11:14:18 am »

Despite its weaknesses, Russia influences the world dramatically, and remains untouchable due to nuclear weapons. Its invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, destabilized Ukraine, and blackmailed the European Union on gas/oil prices.
They could do all of this only because Putin turned out stronger than Obama. As soon as Putin leaves Russia will collapse. Can you say that the USA will collapse after Trump quits?
That is far from certain.
What is far from certain? That Russia will collapse if Putin quits? Or that the US will collapse if Trump quits?
the obvious one, that Russia would collapse.
I often visit Russia and know the situation there
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Blue3
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2019, 08:32:05 pm »

When Medvedev became President, and it wasn't yet certain that Putin would run again, did it seem like it would collapse then?

Putin wants to make himself seem indispensable. That's what all dictators want to do. Keep up the mirage.
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Proto
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2019, 02:23:09 am »
« Edited: January 04, 2019, 12:22:58 pm by Proto »

When Medvedev became President, and it wasn't yet certain that Putin would run again


No, you are wrong. In 2008 Putin an Medvedev agreed that in 2012 Putin would become president again to appoint Medvedev prime-minister. And in 2011 Medvedev and  Putin told about that plan in public https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/world/europe/medvedev-says-putin-will-seek-russian-presidency-in-2012.html
That was a unique planned shift of positions (rather than of power) that demonstrated well totalitarian nature of Putin's regime. Russian constitution prohibits one person to serve more than two consecutive presidential terms and Putin had to prepare that positions shift, but when he was prime-minister all important decisions were taken by him rather than by Medvedev including the launch of war with Georgia.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2019, 10:43:10 am »

S.Arabia has a lot of toys, but there isn't much evidence they know how to use them.  I agree with you on Italy, I overrated them.  There should be an asterisk next to Russia as well.  Give 3-7 a couple years build up and I think any one of them could embarrass the Russian military....assuming it doesn't go nuclear.

This is "power and influence". You're right that SA hasn't shown that it can use its military toys, but it has great influence through its funding of right wing religious groups across the world. This influence is not just in the Arabian peninsula - SA was a major factor in Pakistan changing from a somewhat secular Islamic country to a more theocratic one, and of course there is the Taliban and Salafist mosques across the former SSRs (for starters).

I would even consider pushing SA into the top 10 based on its religious influence.
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 11:18:31 am »

1. USA
2. China
3. Russia
4. India
5. Japan
6. Germany
7. Brazil
8. Britain
9. France
10. Pakistan
11. Turkey
12. Israel
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2019, 01:50:47 pm »

I actually would reorganize the top 3 as well

1.  USA
2.  China
3.  Germany
4.  Russia
5.  Japan
6.  France
7.  United Kindgom
8.  Saudi Arabia
9.  India 
10.  Iran
11.  South Korea
12.  Pakistan
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