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Author Topic: Chinese Americans vs. Chinese Canadians  (Read 1185 times)
King of Kensington
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« on: January 13, 2019, 01:57:12 am »

Chinese Canadians have been trending quite conservative as of late.  Is this simply because that partisan loyalties are weaker and the Conservatives have been far better at immigrant outreach than the US Republicans, or are Chinese Canadians also more socially conservative and business-oriented than Chinese Americans?

Socioeconomically they look pretty similar (certainly much more similar than South Asians in the two respective countries).
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 02:29:54 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 08:17:03 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 08:58:25 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Well It'd depend on the class of Chinese Canadians, right? More working class/middle-class voters would be attracted to right-wing campaigns drugs, law and order, hard work, welfare dependancy same-sex marriage, not on abortion or religiosity though. While more upper-middle class Chinese would vote for a stable business environment.

In Australia within immigrant groups (not being racist) it seems if you're white Asain you're 60-40% liberal, if you're brown Asian you're 65-35% Labor. I do not know any substantial difference in their political views, though white Asians tend to be more anti-left.

It doesn't even align with the country's political views (exactly anyway), BJP/Sikh Nationalists supporting Labor and Chinese communists whose family members were supportive of the cultural revolution supporting Liberal.
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 11:29:25 am »

It all has to do with community leadership and the differences in American and Canadian political culture.  In the US, the conservative movement has made huge inroads with white voters  (especially in the South and Midwest) through what's essentially white identity politics.  So while many Chinese Americans have conservative political views, our community leaders are much more comfortable supporting the right wing of the Democratic Party. 

Meanwhile in Canada the conservative movement does the same, but to a much lesser extent.  I think there's also a greater emphasis on Anglo identity than white identity, which is something that Chinese Canadians can aspire to assimilate into.  This means that Chinese Canadian leadership tends to have a much closer relationship with the Conservative Party. 
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 12:36:19 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?
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khuzifenq
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 01:11:49 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

That wasn't really what I was going for. What I meant was- the political spectrum in Canada seems broadly shifted to the left (and the parties less ideologically polarized) relative to the US. This means that the Tories will seem more moderate on social issues and less Darwinian on economic issues than the federal GOP.

https://www.quora.com/Which-demographic-groups-tend-to-vote-for-the-Conservative-Party-of-Canada/answer/Emanuel-Leung

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

So my suspicions were correct.
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 01:20:09 pm »

In Australia within immigrant groups (not being racist) it seems if you're white Asain you're 60-40% liberal, if you're brown Asian you're 65-35% Labor. I do not know any substantial difference in their political views, though white Asians tend to be more anti-left.

It doesn't even align with the country's political views (exactly anyway), BJP/Sikh Nationalists supporting Labor and Chinese communists whose family members were supportive of the cultural revolution supporting Liberal.

Very interesting. Are Vietnamese and Filipino Australians more supportive of the Coalition or Labor? Also, is there a political generation gap among Asian Australians between immigrants and native-borns like in the US? I've definitely noticed one among Chinese, Vietnamese, and Indian Americans.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 02:22:15 pm »

What's interesting is that heavily Chinese-Canadian areas voted for SoCons like Trost during the CPC leadership race. I don't know exactly how Chinese-American precincts voted in the GOP primary but it might be interesting to compare.
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 03:27:54 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

That wasn't really what I was going for. What I meant was- the political spectrum in Canada seems broadly shifted to the left (and the parties less ideologically polarized) relative to the US. This means that the Tories will seem more moderate on social issues and less Darwinian on economic issues than the federal GOP.

https://www.quora.com/Which-demographic-groups-tend-to-vote-for-the-Conservative-Party-of-Canada/answer/Emanuel-Leung


I still have to push back on your characterization here. Talking about the GOP being insane and the Tories sane doesn't jive well with Chinese-Canadian voting patters. VPH broached the topic, so let me elaborate a bit.

Below is a map of the first round of the last Conservative leadership race.


For context, Brad Trost (yellow) ran the most overtly "insane Republican" type campaign on issuss like abortion, gay marriage, sex ed, and drugs (but notably, not on immigration). If you look at the map, most of the ridings he won are in heavily Chinese suburbs of Toronto and Vancouver. Despite only winning 8% of the vote, he won over 50% in majority Chinese Markham-Unionville and over 30% in the two Richmond BC seats.

If it were really about "insane Republicans", presumably the Chinese would have preferred one of the less Republican style candidates like Andrew Scheer or Michael Chong, but that's not what happened here. Interestingly, Trumpish candidate Kelly Leitch bombed in Chinese ridings, so perhaps Chinese voters are just averse to white identity politics not the rest of the GOP agenda.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2019, 03:41:33 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?

I'm not sure if I'd call it good, but they definitely make more of an effort than the GOP. NC Yankee has a theory that half of strong political results is just making an effort with a group. Under FPTP parties will make investments where they need to win and neglect where they don't. For example, the GOP does better with Hispanics in Florida than the Cuban factor would account for. In Yankee's theory, that is because the GOP needs to win Florida to win the Presidency, and they need to do better with Hispanics to do that, so they make more of an effort with them. Thus, you get Rick Scott doing Spanish commercials and stuff like that. I think you get a similar effect in Canada.

Canada has a similar share of whites as the USA but a large chunk of those are Francophones, or progressive city dwellers, who are mostly inaccessible to right wing parties. Thus, in order to win, the Tories had to seek out other groups. There was a concious choice by Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and the Tory campaign staff to send out reps to minority events, drum up minority candidates and try to use wedge issues and ads to peel minorities away from the Liberals. Overall it was a mixed bag and flopped in some communities, but it paid off amazingly well with Chinese and Jewish Canadians.
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 03:43:34 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, I’m afraid I don’t follow Canadian politics that closely. My intention wasn’t to smear social conservatives as “crazy” or out of touch, but rather to convey that the federal GOP is perceived differently from the Tories even if their stances on many issues are similar.

The important difference is that the Conservatives are objectively better at visible minority outreach. This could be due to lower political polarization in Canada, more cultural pluralism + progressive social attitudes(?), an emphasis on an “Anglo” identity as @Lu Xun pointed out (which likely appeals to many former Hong Kongers), and/or the existence of two other parties splitting the non-Tory vote.
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 04:07:30 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

The Chinese busineess immigrants have a high profile but most Chinese Canadians aren't that wealthy.  Places like Agincourt and Richmond are not "rich."  It's not that different from the US where it ranges from places like Flushing to upper middle class "ethnoburbs."

Indo Canadians are much more socioeconomically heterogeneous than in the US; there's a lot of blue collar Punjabis in Canada.  In the US, upper middle class Hindus dominate the Indian population.


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King of Kensington
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 04:19:23 pm »

In Vancouver the CPC has very much become "the Chinese party."
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khuzifenq
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 05:03:32 pm »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

The Chinese busineess immigrants have a high profile but most Chinese Canadians aren't that wealthy.  Places like Agincourt and Richmond are not "rich."  It's not that different from the US where it ranges from places like Flushing to upper middle class "ethnoburbs."

Indo Canadians are much more socioeconomically heterogeneous than in the US; there's a lot of blue collar Punjabis in Canada.  In the US, upper middle class Hindus dominate the Indian population.

Exactly. Wealthy business immigrants and international students from China should not be taken as representative of the broader Chinese Canadian community. If ethnic Chinese and Indians are more likely to vote for the center-right party (which was the case for both groups in the 2017 BC provincial elections), it's because there's less xenophobia on the Canadian right than the US right.

As with the US, the Canadian immigration system favors people who either have money or skills. The former Hong Kongers who were able to emigrate after the handover were probably more affluent on average and potentially had more to lose under PRC rule.


Quote
Former B.C. premier and federal Liberal cabinet minister Ujjal Dosanjh said the NDP typically does better among long-term Chinese immigrants, who are more likely to be from Hong Kong and Taiwan than the People’s Republic of China.

“They realized a long time ago the NDP is not like the Communist party of China, whose control they wanted to escape,” said Dosanjh, who regularly won in heavily Chinese provincial and federal ridings in East Vancouver.

In Vancouver the CPC has very much become "the Chinese party."

https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/chinese-christians-for-trump
"Chinese evangelicals who support Donald Trump come from a particular class of people with wealth to protect, says scholar Justin Tse."
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 12:58:12 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?

I'm not sure if I'd call it good, but they definitely make more of an effort than the GOP. NC Yankee has a theory that half of strong political results is just making an effort with a group. Under FPTP parties will make investments where they need to win and neglect where they don't. For example, the GOP does better with Hispanics in Florida than the Cuban factor would account for. In Yankee's theory, that is because the GOP needs to win Florida to win the Presidency, and they need to do better with Hispanics to do that, so they make more of an effort with them. Thus, you get Rick Scott doing Spanish commercials and stuff like that. I think you get a similar effect in Canada.

Canada has a similar share of whites as the USA but a large chunk of those are Francophones, or progressive city dwellers, who are mostly inaccessible to right wing parties. Thus, in order to win, the Tories had to seek out other groups. There was a concious choice by Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and the Tory campaign staff to send out reps to minority events, drum up minority candidates and try to use wedge issues and ads to peel minorities away from the Liberals. Overall it was a mixed bag and flopped in some communities, but it paid off amazingly well with Chinese and Jewish Canadians.

Do you think as time goes on, the GOP will be "forced" to adapt and do something similar to the Candian Tories or is American headed for one-party rule for another generation?
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 01:15:38 am »

According to Statscan, a majority of Chinese Canadians are of no religion.  But there's a sizeable evangelical element that is seemingly growing.

Thing is, outside of a few rural pockets, evangelicalism in Canada is largely an immigrant phenomenon.

It might be different in say, the suburban counties in California with large Asian populations.  Does integration into "blue state liberalism" inhibit the influence of evangelical churches among Chinese Americans? 

 
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 10:06:13 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?

I'm not sure if I'd call it good, but they definitely make more of an effort than the GOP. NC Yankee has a theory that half of strong political results is just making an effort with a group. Under FPTP parties will make investments where they need to win and neglect where they don't. For example, the GOP does better with Hispanics in Florida than the Cuban factor would account for. In Yankee's theory, that is because the GOP needs to win Florida to win the Presidency, and they need to do better with Hispanics to do that, so they make more of an effort with them. Thus, you get Rick Scott doing Spanish commercials and stuff like that. I think you get a similar effect in Canada.

Canada has a similar share of whites as the USA but a large chunk of those are Francophones, or progressive city dwellers, who are mostly inaccessible to right wing parties. Thus, in order to win, the Tories had to seek out other groups. There was a concious choice by Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and the Tory campaign staff to send out reps to minority events, drum up minority candidates and try to use wedge issues and ads to peel minorities away from the Liberals. Overall it was a mixed bag and flopped in some communities, but it paid off amazingly well with Chinese and Jewish Canadians.

Do you think as time goes on, the GOP will be "forced" to adapt and do something similar to the Candian Tories or is American headed for one-party rule for another generation?

If past results are any indication, party advantages don't last that long. The majority party usually alienates part of their coalition eventually, and the minority party is quick to exploit it to win power. I have no idea if the disaffected group will be Asians or not, but the GOP will start working harder with somebody eventually.
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 10:21:10 am »

According to Statscan, a majority of Chinese Canadians are of no religion.  But there's a sizeable evangelical element that is seemingly growing.

Thing is, outside of a few rural pockets, evangelicalism in Canada is largely an immigrant phenomenon.

It might be different in say, the suburban counties in California with large Asian populations.  Does integration into "blue state liberalism" inhibit the influence of evangelical churches among Chinese Americans? 

 


Probably
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 10:21:32 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?

I'm not sure if I'd call it good, but they definitely make more of an effort than the GOP. NC Yankee has a theory that half of strong political results is just making an effort with a group. Under FPTP parties will make investments where they need to win and neglect where they don't. For example, the GOP does better with Hispanics in Florida than the Cuban factor would account for. In Yankee's theory, that is because the GOP needs to win Florida to win the Presidency, and they need to do better with Hispanics to do that, so they make more of an effort with them. Thus, you get Rick Scott doing Spanish commercials and stuff like that. I think you get a similar effect in Canada.

Canada has a similar share of whites as the USA but a large chunk of those are Francophones, or progressive city dwellers, who are mostly inaccessible to right wing parties. Thus, in order to win, the Tories had to seek out other groups. There was a concious choice by Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and the Tory campaign staff to send out reps to minority events, drum up minority candidates and try to use wedge issues and ads to peel minorities away from the Liberals. Overall it was a mixed bag and flopped in some communities, but it paid off amazingly well with Chinese and Jewish Canadians.

Do you think as time goes on, the GOP will be "forced" to adapt and do something similar to the Candian Tories or is American headed for one-party rule for another generation?

If past results are any indication, party advantages don't last that long. The majority party usually alienates part of their coalition eventually, and the minority party is quick to exploit it to win power. I have no idea if the disaffected group will be Asians or not, but the GOP will start working harder with somebody eventually.

Agreed
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khuzifenq
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 05:45:49 pm »

According to Statscan, a majority of Chinese Canadians are of no religion.  But there's a sizeable evangelical element that is seemingly growing.

Thing is, outside of a few rural pockets, evangelicalism in Canada is largely an immigrant phenomenon.

It might be different in say, the suburban counties in California with large Asian populations.  Does integration into "blue state liberalism" inhibit the influence of evangelical churches among Chinese Americans?  

Nonwhite evangelicals are consistently more left wing than white evangelicals in the US. With Asian Americans this is actually true for all subgroups of Christianity. Can’t find the supporting Pew Research article at the moment. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/chapter-7-religious-affiliation-beliefs-and-practices/

Among my RL social network, there is a politically outspoken subgroup of US-born Asian-American “evangelical Protestant” Christians who are highly social justice oriented and largely align with the Religious Left. This group is relatively young and is mostly comprised of college students and recent college grads. The majority seems fairly apolitical, but not in a way that would make them susceptible to supporting the current GOP.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 07:10:22 pm by khuzifenq »Logged

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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 07:23:01 pm »

According to Statscan, a majority of Chinese Canadians are of no religion.  But there's a sizeable evangelical element that is seemingly growing.

Thing is, outside of a few rural pockets, evangelicalism in Canada is largely an immigrant phenomenon.

It might be different in say, the suburban counties in California with large Asian populations.  Does integration into "blue state liberalism" inhibit the influence of evangelical churches among Chinese Americans? 

Kensington, how are you getting Statscan data for religion by ethnicity? I can't find it.
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Badger
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2019, 12:25:40 am »

The Conservatives are saner (for lack of more politically correct term) than the GOP, and Canada’s immigration policies have arguably led to better political integration of visible minority groups in general. It probably also helps that Canada doesn’t have a history of racialized slavery and resultant political polarization.

To my knowledge the Chinese Canadian community is more disproportionately composed of wealthy Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong emigres, international students in university, etc compared to Chinese Americans. This may skew perceptions of political leanings.

I don't think your explanation is wrong per se, but its a bit incomplete. It sort of gives the impression that Conservative appeal to Chinese Canadians is solely based on "keep taxes low, business friendly". You'd be surprised how much of Tory campaigning in Chinese communities is based on 'values'. The last couple federal elections, left leaning publications have obtained Conservative Mandarin or Cantonese campaign materials. Common themes include drugs, religious right stuff for Chinese Evangelicals, and implying the Liberals don't support immigrant values.

I don’t have any hard evidence but I suspect this is also true for Indian Canadians.

South Asians in Canada tend to vote left weirdly enough, albeit with a bit more willingness to swing right than their American counterparts. It's a bit odd given that Chinese Canadians vote ~ 20% more Conservative than the general population.

Wow, 20%, if most of Canada voted like their Chinese Countrymen would that mean a Tory country? Are the Conservatives really good in outreach operations (GOP could learn a thing or too about them if they wish to really win elections well)?

I'm not sure if I'd call it good, but they definitely make more of an effort than the GOP. NC Yankee has a theory that half of strong political results is just making an effort with a group. Under FPTP parties will make investments where they need to win and neglect where they don't. For example, the GOP does better with Hispanics in Florida than the Cuban factor would account for. In Yankee's theory, that is because the GOP needs to win Florida to win the Presidency, and they need to do better with Hispanics to do that, so they make more of an effort with them. Thus, you get Rick Scott doing Spanish commercials and stuff like that. I think you get a similar effect in Canada.

Canada has a similar share of whites as the USA but a large chunk of those are Francophones, or progressive city dwellers, who are mostly inaccessible to right wing parties. Thus, in order to win, the Tories had to seek out other groups. There was a concious choice by Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and the Tory campaign staff to send out reps to minority events, drum up minority candidates and try to use wedge issues and ads to peel minorities away from the Liberals. Overall it was a mixed bag and flopped in some communities, but it paid off amazingly well with Chinese and Jewish Canadians.

May I also suggest that, at heart, Outreach is only a tenth of the battle. Republicans have spoken about Outreach to minority communities since forever. And they put money behind it. But at the end of the day, unlike the Canadian tories, the Republican party has cast its lot with a de facto white nationalist party platform, that went well beyond the southern strategy that preceded it.

In other words, Outreach isn't going to help you and damn bet if you haven't got something to offer. Canadian tories do for minority communities American Republicans to put it mildly, don't
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 08:20:10 pm by Badger »Logged

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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2019, 12:54:55 am »

The religious right is also no where near as influential on the Torie party as it is on the GOP
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2019, 11:17:54 pm »

Kensington, how are you getting Statscan data for religion by ethnicity? I can't find it.

https://tinyurl.com/y8n8jwng

According to 2011 NHS, Chinese Canadians are 64% no religion and 24% Christian.  
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 11:21:27 pm by King of Kensington »Logged
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