Pro Lifers: Is it moral to abort an alien baby?
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  Pro Lifers: Is it moral to abort an alien baby?
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Author Topic: Pro Lifers: Is it moral to abort an alien baby?  (Read 1716 times)
Reluctant Republican
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« on: January 15, 2019, 01:40:03 AM »

I realize this is an incredibly silly hypothetical, but let me start by saying this is not intended as some lame gotcha question or trolling. I'm genuinely curious in answers to it. So hopefully you can take it more seriously than it probably deserves. Tongue

You have a friend who is abducted by aliens and studied by them. She is returned to earth and soon discovers she is pregnant. Given there's no real experience of what birthing this alien will do to her body, doctors rate the upcoming birth as having more of a risk to the mother than most standard pregnancies.She confides in you that despite the fact she's pro life, she's considering an abortion. Given the circumstances, is she morally justified in getting one?

I've asked a few pro lifers this and was surprised that all of them seemed to think her getting the abortion was justified. These people are the types who think that a fetus is a person and that abortion is murder, so I actually was a bit disturbed by how willing they were to abort the alien. Is it a religious thing? If we assume humans have a special relationship and importance to God, do we then assume that aliens lack this and it's more permissible to abort them? Or maybe it's because this is technically rape, and many otherwise pro life people support an exception for that. In that case, would it make it any different in your eyes if the relationship was consensual?

Again, I know this is probably incredibly dumb, but it's been bugging me so much for the past few weeks, and I really would appreciate some insight from pro life posters on their personal feelings on this sort of situation.
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Nathan
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 01:46:19 AM »

I'm proud to be the first pro-lifer whom you've asked this to say that no, I still don't think abortion would be justified in this situation. Also, wtf.
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Reluctant Republican
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 01:56:30 AM »

I'm proud to be the first pro-lifer whom you've asked this to say that no, I still don't think abortion would be justified in this situation. Also, wtf.

I'm a bit weird, I suppose.Tongue

But I'm honestly looking for answers here, so I appreciate yours. To my mind I don't see how anyone could be in favor of abortion in this case and hold it as a justifiable position, unless they were doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with the pregnancy being an alien( such as it being due to rape, or life of the mother.) But others have said that the alien could come out and be evil. "You don't know, it might eat humans. Or maybe it would look at you and make your head explode." I pointed out that I would think it being raised by a human would prevent it from developing tendencies that we would consider anti social, but they held firm, for reasons I could not label as anything other than some sort of xenophobia.

I may have too much time on my hands. 
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Gabbard
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 12:06:22 PM »

It's an interesting question.

Personally, I find the killing of unborn non-human animals to be sad and wrong, so I'm sure I'd feel the same way about alien abortions. Do my feelings that something is sad and wrong make it immoral? Probably not.

A lot depends on the intellectual and emotional intelligence of the alien, I suppose.

Tough question.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 02:31:17 PM »

That depends on the aliens, but lean yes just because of the unknowns, and I am pro-life with the exception of the mother's life or incest.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 05:21:15 AM »

I am not pro-life, but putting the ick factor aside, it can be reasonably ascertained that continuing with the pregnancy under those circumstances would threaten the health of the mother (which most pro-lifers make an exception for) and, because the fetus is half-non-human, it can technically be considered not human at all and thus a parasite.
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Nathan
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 03:08:47 PM »

I am not pro-life, but putting the ick factor aside, it can be reasonably ascertained that continuing with the pregnancy under those circumstances would threaten the health of the mother (which most pro-lifers make an exception for)

This is a much better argument than

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this, assuming a reasonable person would (as I hope one would) militate towards believing the hybrid would have a soul.
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Reluctant Republican
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 03:08:58 PM »

Thanks everyone for the replies. Some very interesting ones.

If I asked this again, I think I'd get rid of the rape and risk to the mother parts of the hypothetical though. IMO they serve as distractions from the larger issue I'm trying to figure out, such as if there's some sort of inherent quality or soul pro lifers believe humans would have in this situation as opposed to another highly advanced sentient being.

If we explore this deeper, and folks are fine with aborting the alien but consider doing the equivalent to a human pregnancy murder, are we then justifying murder against non humans? And if so, where does it end? Would murders against born aliens be treated and judged differently and less severely than murdering a fellow human? Should they?

I suspect I am reaching at this point, but to me it's a very fun and interesting rabbit hole to go down. I don't have a definite conclusion I've reached yet, though I think I tend to come down to it being a moral wrong to abort the alien, unless we're doing it for exceptions most pro lifers already lay out for human births, such as rape or health of the mother.

My reasoning for this is that most of us I think consider killing both humans and animals wrong, but if push came to shove must humans would have a stronger reaction to a human being killed and label it a greater evil. Now if we believe abortion to be murder( And I do, though I'm sort of undecided on the broader abortion question when it comes to legislation) I would argue that killing an alien of a race that has shown intelligence and sentience at least comparable to humans would be a moral wrong comparable to killing a human. So if you believe abortion to be murder, my personal view is that you should probably view it as equally wrong regardless of the aborted in this case. Otherwise, if you think it excusable or less wrong, I would think you'd have to carry that view over to live aliens vs. humans, and feel humankind was in some way superior and more deserving of life than an equivalent alien species. Which may lead to unfortunate implications and justifications for all sorts of atrocities.

Hopefully that made some sort of sense. Tongue    
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 03:17:00 PM »

@RR I am reluctant to recognize “inherent rights” for space aliens. I can understand that, assuming this scenario implies aliens of an advanced or at least equal technological development, we would need in the long term to establish a legal regime to allow us to deal with one another. Nevertheless, inherent rights essentially equal to those of humans would imply the need for massive theological and philosophical reworkings.

My far greater concern in this scenario however is the recognition we would grant a pairing that, as far as I can understand, is not supposed to happen. No being of a different species should be mating with humans and vice versa. The apparent reproductive comparability of our species and theirs makes this curious, but I don’t think it invalidates my stance.
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Nathan
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 03:20:53 PM »

There are any number of couplings between humans that aren't supposed to happen either, but I don't think consistent pro-lifers should feel that the moral principle is vitiated in those situations. That's the path towards adopting a full-bore early-twentieth-century paternalist conception of reproductive politics that I think should be avoided at all costs. (I'm saying this as someone who has written an entire essay decrying the tendency of "movement pro-lifers" to avoid conversations about children of incest despite being perfectly willing to have them about children of rape.)
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 03:25:27 PM »

Fair enough. In any case, we are fortunate this is a hypothetical.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2019, 11:15:11 AM »

Why would a Christian (especially of the reformed, Evangelical, most likely to be "pro-life" type) believe in aliens?  We are the pinnacle of creation.
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Small L
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2019, 03:13:12 PM »

Why would a Christian (especially of the reformed, Evangelical, most likely to be "pro-life" type) believe in aliens?  We are the pinnacle of creation.
How would the existence of aliens automatically threaten that?
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2019, 03:34:20 PM »

Why would a Christian (especially of the reformed, Evangelical, most likely to be "pro-life" type) believe in aliens?  We are the pinnacle of creation.
How would the existence of aliens automatically threaten that?

The discovery of sentient beings with human-like levels of intelligence in far-flung galaxies without any notion of the Christian God would certainly shake the religious community.  Although, I guess no more than the "discovery" of Native Americans by Europeans.  Eh, it would be quite different though.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2019, 03:56:26 PM »
« Edited: January 18, 2019, 04:00:09 PM by DC Al Fine »

Is the alien/human hybrid made in the Imago Dei? If the answer is yes then to kill it is murder and obviously wrong.

If the answer is no or "beats me", things are bit trickier. If the creature dies not have an immortal soul and is not made in God's image, I suppose you could argue killing it isn't technically murder. That said, I'd be extremely hesitant to abort anything that's part human or sentient, barring a credible risk to the mother's life. Better safe than sorry when it comes to ending lives!
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2019, 04:21:31 PM »

Why would a Christian (especially of the reformed, Evangelical, most likely to be "pro-life" type) believe in aliens?  We are the pinnacle of creation.
How would the existence of aliens automatically threaten that?

The discovery of sentient beings with human-like levels of intelligence in far-flung galaxies without any notion of the Christian God would certainly shake the religious community.  Although, I guess no more than the "discovery" of Native Americans by Europeans.  Eh, it would be quite different though.

I believe C.S. Lewis sort of addressed this in his "Space Trilogy". Speaking of...

Is the alien/human hybrid made in the Imago Dei? If the answer is yes then to kill it is murder and obviously wrong.

If the answer is no or "beats me", things are bit trickier. If the creature dies not have an immortal soul and is not made in God's image, I suppose you could argue killing it isn't technically murder. That said, I'd be extremely hesitant to abort anything that's part human or sentient, barring a credible risk to the mother's life. Better safe than sorry when it comes to ending lives!

...were we to contemplate "Imago Dei"-style aliens in the sense of the C.S. Lewniverse, my position would probably be radically shifted. I had instead been imagining them more as entirely strange creatures that inherently threatened the Christian worldview.
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afleitch
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2019, 12:39:20 PM »

Any hybrid baby would be parasitic, so it wouldn't be an abortion. And there's probably an 100% chance that the body would reject it, so removal night not be necessary. If she did carry the child, then it would have meant there was some change or augmentation made to her to allow her to carry the child which is mutilation. And of course it would be a non consensual pregnancy and associated procedure. It's debatable as to whether any woman could give consent in that situation even if she 'wanted' to.

Supporting the delivery of a parasitic hybrid by extension 'justifies' medical mutilation to force the human body to do something it is otherwise incapable of doing.

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Badger
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2019, 07:12:03 AM »

Such artificial insemination against the woman's will is arguably rape. One need not be limited to the traditional definition if forcible sexual intercourse. So by that standard, it all comes down to whether or not One Believes abortion is moral / should be legal in cases of rape.
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S019
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 11:08:35 PM »

Not sure

I guess no, but still allow in cases of rape, incest, and danger if life to the mother or child
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2021, 04:27:30 AM »

All of you are missing the bigger picture here. If they abducted her a first time to impregnate her they're going to abduct her a second time a few months later to extract the fetus from her body and let it grow in a vat or something until it's old enough to be born. They didn't just give her an alien baby to keep and I don't think the aliens would like it very much if she aborted it.

The only thing she can really do in this situation is keep quiet until the aliens return, take their baby, and hopefully then leave her alone. If she went ahead with the abortion anyway, even counting out angry aliens, I'm sure she'd be questioned by certain government agents and she'd potentially get in a hell of a lot more trouble than if she just went along with the pregnancy.
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Spark
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2021, 08:11:41 AM »

This is highly hypothetical and speculative, but I support life every time.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2021, 04:24:35 PM »

     I would say it is not moral. The fundamental question is if the aliens are made in the image of God. We cannot be sure of that in the hypothetical as posited, but it is a reasonable assumption given that they have the means to perform the actions described here. Therefore we should err on the assumption that they are made in the image of God and that they (and therefore the baby) possess the dignity of personhood.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2021, 07:13:13 PM »

The discovery of sentient beings with human-like levels of intelligence in far-flung galaxies without any notion of the Christian God would certainly shake the religious community.  Although, I guess no more than the "discovery" of Native Americans by Europeans.  Eh, it would be quite different though.
Russell Stannard has endorsed the whole “Jesus having to die over and over again,” which I’ve always found odd. It seems to suggest that Christianity is not a universal religion, but a terrestrial one.

Any hybrid baby would be parasitic, so it wouldn't be an abortion. And there's probably an 100% chance that the body would reject it, so removal night not be necessary. If she did carry the child, then it would have meant there was some change or augmentation made to her to allow her to carry the child which is mutilation. And of course it would be a non consensual pregnancy and associated procedure. It's debatable as to whether any woman could give consent in that situation even if she 'wanted' to.

Supporting the delivery of a parasitic hybrid by extension 'justifies' medical mutilation to force the human body to do something it is otherwise incapable of doing.
Look, the danger to the mother is a good argument. The parasitic idea is the most incoherent argument I’ve read since Dawkins “debunked” Aquinas with Divine Complexity.
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Samof94
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2021, 06:12:03 AM »

The discovery of sentient beings with human-like levels of intelligence in far-flung galaxies without any notion of the Christian God would certainly shake the religious community.  Although, I guess no more than the "discovery" of Native Americans by Europeans.  Eh, it would be quite different though.
Russell Stannard has endorsed the whole “Jesus having to die over and over again,” which I’ve always found odd. It seems to suggest that Christianity is not a universal religion, but a terrestrial one.

Any hybrid baby would be parasitic, so it wouldn't be an abortion. And there's probably an 100% chance that the body would reject it, so removal night not be necessary. If she did carry the child, then it would have meant there was some change or augmentation made to her to allow her to carry the child which is mutilation. And of course it would be a non consensual pregnancy and associated procedure. It's debatable as to whether any woman could give consent in that situation even if she 'wanted' to.

Supporting the delivery of a parasitic hybrid by extension 'justifies' medical mutilation to force the human body to do something it is otherwise incapable of doing.
Look, the danger to the mother is a good argument. The parasitic idea is the most incoherent argument I’ve read since Dawkins “debunked” Aquinas with Divine Complexity.
The Mormons had Jesus come to North America.
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