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  Why arent the Liberal Democrats polling better
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Author Topic: Why arent the Liberal Democrats polling better  (Read 1878 times)
Old School Republican
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« on: January 16, 2019, 03:52:15 am »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 05:39:17 am »

The UK is like America right now, it's very polarized over Brexit so as a result people aren't willing to vote for third parties right now. Plus, I think the type over voter who would want to vote LibDem still haven't forgiven the party for entering coaltion with the Tories.
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 05:39:24 am »

Because they've alienated a lot of people. The Left doesn't like them because of the coalition, and Brexiteers across the spectrum don't like them because of their stauch anti-Brexit views. So their pool of potential voters has more or less been limited to voters who are staunchly anti-Brexit and aren't attached to the major parties. Many left-wing anti-Brexit voters instead seem to be shifting to the Greens who are anti-Brexit while also being closer to them on their economic and social views in general.
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Justice Blair
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 04:51:35 pm »

Outside of being a paid up Labour member I'm the core Lib Dem demographic- white, youngish, university graduate, professional and politically obsessed. And I'd have to go on a journey to vote for them.

It's partly the reality of FPTP, but also because Vince Cable is useless, they can't get any airtime, they don't know whether they're a progressive protest party, or a weird coalition based party purely existing for concessions.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 05:06:17 pm »

Outside of being a paid up Labour member I'm the core Lib Dem demographic- white, youngish, university graduate, professional and politically obsessed. And I'd have to go on a journey to vote for them.

This in itself shows up one of the problems... this is what their electorate now looks like because it's what they want it to. Except that it turns out that this is a vastly smaller share of the electorate than political and media classes assume. Meanwhile their credibility with their old electorates remains at subzero.
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rc18
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2019, 05:34:01 pm »
« Edited: January 17, 2019, 02:44:54 am by rc18 »

That's not what their electorate looks like now, it's what it used to look like between the Iraq War the tuition fee betrayal.  

After the election of Corbyn, who wants LD diet that's left a bad taste in your mouth when you can have full fat Labour?  Yes Corbyn's Brexit ambivalence is an issue but on many other aspects of politics he sounds more on their level.

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

FPTP means you need to pick the party closest to your views that also has the best chance of winning.  Even though Corbyn is ambivalent about Brexit, the Labour party itself has an overwhelmingly Remain demographic of urban and affluent voters.

For what it's worth May is not "pro-Brexit", she's a Remainer who can't even bring herself to say she thinks leaving is a good idea. Leavers don't trust her, they simply have no choice but to stick with the Tories until they get it through.  Same with Remainers, they aren't necessarily happy with Corbyn but they feel Labour are in a better position to get some "wins" for them.


Besides, there's more to politics than Brexit....
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Secret Cavern Survivor
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2019, 11:26:51 pm »

Because they are a joke.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 02:12:48 am »

Cleggamania left them in tatters. they can't regroup
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DavidB.
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 10:24:30 am »

FPTP.
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Velasco
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 10:33:45 am »

Where is Clegg?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 01:11:46 pm »

Where is Clegg?
Indeed. Clegg’s personality and popularity could have raised the party up and up, but due to incompetence in PR and media relations, they lost Clegg and the Clegg Coalition.
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Hardline Remainer
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 08:09:30 pm »

Where is Clegg?
Indeed. Clegg’s personality and popularity could have raised the party up and up, but due to incompetence in PR and media relations, they lost Clegg and the Clegg Coalition.
And then Clegg, sadly, lost his seat.
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rc18
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2019, 08:33:27 pm »

Where is Clegg?
Facebook

(Not a joke)
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 10:15:27 am »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

Because The Very Clever and Serious People running the party (Clegg and the Orange Bookers) decided to nuke the party's previous voter coalition from orbit in the belief that they could turn themselves into FDP 2.0, which was - and is - a recipe for oblivion under FPTP. It's symbolic that the two party leaders who painstakingly resurrected the Lib Dems have both passed away in the last couple of years.
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 08:49:19 pm »

FPTP.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 09:27:16 pm »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

Because The Very Clever and Serious People running the party (Clegg and the Orange Bookers) decided to nuke the party's previous voter coalition from orbit in the belief that they could turn themselves into FDP 2.0, which was - and is - a recipe for oblivion under FPTP. It's symbolic that the two party leaders who painstakingly resurrected the Lib Dems have both passed away in the last couple of years.

This is all accurate.
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vileplume
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2019, 05:39:16 am »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

Because The Very Clever and Serious People running the party (Clegg and the Orange Bookers) decided to nuke the party's previous voter coalition from orbit in the belief that they could turn themselves into FDP 2.0, which was - and is - a recipe for oblivion under FPTP. It's symbolic that the two party leaders who painstakingly resurrected the Lib Dems have both passed away in the last couple of years.

Huh the Lib Dems never had a coherent voter coalition in the first place, they were the 'not Tory, not Labour, all things to all people' party so unsurprisingly when they actually had to govern they completely imploded. Look at some of the constituencies they held e.g. Burnley, Sutton and Cheam, Hornsey and Wood Green, Torbay. There is virtually no ideological overlap between these places whatsoever. If they had gone into coalition with Labour they would have collapsed just as badly, if not worse (seen as most of their constituencies were in centre-right areas) there is no way the rural voters in the southwest or the bourgeoisie of Southwest London would have put up with the LDs supporting a left wing government.
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jaichind
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2019, 10:27:13 am »

The UK is like America right now, it's very polarized over Brexit so as a result people aren't willing to vote for third parties right now. Plus, I think the type over voter who would want to vote LibDem still haven't forgiven the party for entering coaltion with the Tories.

Yes, but with Corbyn clearly Eurosceptic even if most of LAB are not, you would think that middle class liberal-progressive pro-Euro votes should migrate to LibDem in polling even if they might tactically vote LAB election day.
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2019, 12:28:09 pm »

The UK is like America right now, it's very polarized over Brexit so as a result people aren't willing to vote for third parties right now. Plus, I think the type over voter who would want to vote LibDem still haven't forgiven the party for entering coaltion with the Tories.

Yes, but with Corbyn clearly Eurosceptic even if most of LAB are not, you would think that middle class liberal-progressive pro-Euro votes should migrate to LibDem in polling even if they might tactically vote LAB election day.

Brexit isn't the only issue in Britain at the moment. While many Labour voters may prefer the Lib Dems' approach on Brexit, they prefer Labour's views on most other issues.
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2019, 01:25:23 pm »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

Because The Very Clever and Serious People running the party (Clegg and the Orange Bookers) decided to nuke the party's previous voter coalition from orbit in the belief that they could turn themselves into FDP 2.0, which was - and is - a recipe for oblivion under FPTP. It's symbolic that the two party leaders who painstakingly resurrected the Lib Dems have both passed away in the last couple of years.

Huh the Lib Dems never had a coherent voter coalition in the first place, they were the 'not Tory, not Labour, all things to all people' party so unsurprisingly when they actually had to govern they completely imploded. Look at some of the constituencies they held e.g. Burnley, Sutton and Cheam, Hornsey and Wood Green, Torbay. There is virtually no ideological overlap between these places whatsoever. If they had gone into coalition with Labour they would have collapsed just as badly, if not worse (seen as most of their constituencies were in centre-right areas) there is no way the rural voters in the southwest or the bourgeoisie of Southwest London would have put up with the LDs supporting a left wing government.

They had gone into coalition with Labour in both Scotland and Wales and saw their voter coalition survive the experience.
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vileplume
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2019, 07:31:11 pm »
« Edited: February 16, 2019, 07:34:50 pm by vileplume »

With leaders of both parties being pro brexit (At this point) you would think the Liberal Dems would poll much better

Because The Very Clever and Serious People running the party (Clegg and the Orange Bookers) decided to nuke the party's previous voter coalition from orbit in the belief that they could turn themselves into FDP 2.0, which was - and is - a recipe for oblivion under FPTP. It's symbolic that the two party leaders who painstakingly resurrected the Lib Dems have both passed away in the last couple of years.

Huh the Lib Dems never had a coherent voter coalition in the first place, they were the 'not Tory, not Labour, all things to all people' party so unsurprisingly when they actually had to govern they completely imploded. Look at some of the constituencies they held e.g. Burnley, Sutton and Cheam, Hornsey and Wood Green, Torbay. There is virtually no ideological overlap between these places whatsoever. If they had gone into coalition with Labour they would have collapsed just as badly, if not worse (seen as most of their constituencies were in centre-right areas) there is no way the rural voters in the southwest or the bourgeoisie of Southwest London would have put up with the LDs supporting a left wing government.

They had gone into coalition with Labour in both Scotland and Wales and saw their voter coalition survive the experience.

The devolved governments aren't quite the same though as people don't focus as much on them and thus they can get away with much more. It's the same reason why the SNP has been in government in Scotland for the length of time it has without any major problem (and will remain in power for the foreseeable) because they can blame anything unpopular on Westminster. Plus when the Lib Dems entered coalitions with Labour in Scotland and Wales Labour was still very popular in both places and the Tories were about as popular as cholera. Plus in Scotland the divide is more unionist-nationalist than traditional left-right and thus a coalition with Labour especially if it kept the SNP out of office would probably help the Lib Dems. Conversely if they ever actually propped up an SNP administration that would indeed be committing electoral suicide.
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tack50
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2019, 05:32:06 pm »

Speaking of Scotland, if SNP-Greens lose their majority, what's the most likely government?

SNP-Labour? SNP-Lib Dems? Or maybe a "unionist" coalition of Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems? (I wonder if this has already happened at the local level to begin with)
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Sentor MAINEiac4434 of Lincoln
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2019, 08:42:13 pm »

Because people hate them.
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PR
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« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2019, 02:21:58 am »

Because they suck.
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Councilor Zaybay
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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2019, 03:52:54 pm »

Because they're the Liberal Democrats.
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