Pete Buttigieg 2020 campaign megathread

[Saint Milei]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

[Saint Milei]

dude needs to drop out. It was obvious he had zero chance when he didn't address the police brutality concern in his own city.

[John Dule]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

So? If the statement is correct, it doesn't matter who's saying it.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

So? If the statement is correct, it doesn't matter who's saying it.

IDRK what point the person you quoted is making but there are two statements you could be referring to:

1) Support for same-sex marriage/same-sex-supportive policy is lower among AAs
2) Buttigieg's abysmal support among AAs is due to his homosexuality

1) is supported by polling but 2) isn't. 2) isn't necessarily disproven but people are inferring a relationship that there is no evidence for.

We know that Obama had plenty of support from people who were not racially progressive (there is evidence for this!) Why isn't Buttigieg receiving support from people who are not progressive on SSM? Could be due to homophobia but it could be due to lots of other things.

[John Dule]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

So? If the statement is correct, it doesn't matter who's saying it.

IDRK what point the person you quoted is making but there are two statements you could be referring to:

1) Support for same-sex marriage/same-sex-supportive policy is lower among AAs
2) Buttigieg's abysmal support among AAs is due to his homosexuality

1) is supported by polling but 2) isn't. 2) isn't necessarily disproven but people are inferring a relationship that there is no evidence for.

We know that Obama had plenty of support from people who were not racially progressive (there is evidence for this!) Why isn't Buttigieg receiving support from people who are progressive on SSM? Could be due to homophobia but it could be due to lots of other things.

Good post; you've separated the two out pretty nicely. I thought he was referring to point #1.

[OneJ]

Also, it should be noted that Buttigieg is still relatively unknown to many black voters. The question is how many he can win over while increasing his name recognition among this group.

[free my dawg]

Weenie already explained my rationale well enough.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

Also, it should be noted that Buttigieg is still relatively unknown to many black voters. The question is how many he can win over while increasing his name recognition among this group.

Not many. He doesn’t have the record, temperament, or charisma to attract black voters. He just comes across as cold and bland.

Younger black voters are for more radical change than he’s proposing (ironically he had a better shot with them with his original platform), so they’ll flock to Sanders and Warren.

Older black voters are for the incremental approach he’s supporting now, but they want someone they can trust and that they know. And for that reason, they’ll stick with Biden or (to a far lesser extent) Sanders.

Suffice to say, Buttigieg is all but locked out of the black vote barring a major implosion of Biden before Iowa. He’d need to win IA, Warren win NH, and have Biden drop out before SC to have a shot.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Buttigieg best bet is to be in Biden's cabinet, he can transform military into accepting LGBT

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

Though I think (as I've noted before), that Buttigieg's record on race/poverty issues in South Bend is part of the reason why he is struggling with the black vote, you are correct when you say that homophobia does play a major role as well. As a black person, I can attest to the anti-gay sentiments that exist within the community. My father and stepmother are very much opposed to gay marriage. They believe that it is unnatural, and make derisive remarks about gay people all the time. My stepmother in particular (who is from Jamaica), is virulently homophobic, and considers their behavior to be "nasty". My uncle too, is also not a fan of gay marriage-though his daughters, who are much more liberal than he is, are of course not offended by it.

[Saint Milei]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

So? If the statement is correct, it doesn't matter who's saying it.

Yes it does matter because it doesnt come across well. A white Republican talking about crime in black communities does not come across the same way as a Democrat doing the same.

[Saint Milei]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

I'm sure your two black friends in real life count as enough evidence. Yeah black politicians, the same ones who hardly ever represent the interests of their constituents obviously know so much about this issue. Maybe if Pete actually did something and didnt come off as an idiot on issues about race his numbers would be better.

I'm not going to entertain this anymore. I honestly hate it when white people make statements like this. But I'm not surprised the out of touch atlas left does.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

Also, it should be noted that Buttigieg is still relatively unknown to many black voters. The question is how many he can win over while increasing his name recognition among this group.

Not many. He doesn’t have the record, temperament, or charisma to attract black voters. He just comes across as cold and bland.

Younger black voters are for more radical change than he’s proposing (ironically he had a better shot with them with his original platform), so they’ll flock to Sanders and Warren.

Older black voters are for the incremental approach he’s supporting now, but they want someone they can trust and that they know. And for that reason, they’ll stick with Biden or (to a far lesser extent) Sanders.

Suffice to say, Buttigieg is all but locked out of the black vote barring a major implosion of Biden before Iowa. He’d need to win IA, Warren win NH, and have Biden drop out before SC to have a shot.

How do you think older black voters would approach this primary in the admittedly unlikely event that Sanders and Buttigieg were the only two candidates in contention by Super Tuesday?

They’d probably go for Buttigieg due to him seeming to be the “safe” choice, and Sanders’ implicit criticisms of Obama probably wouldn’t help his case much either.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

I'm sure your two black friends in real life count as enough evidence. Yeah black politicians, the same ones who hardly ever represent the interests of their constituents obviously know so much about this issue. Maybe if Pete actually did something and didnt come off as an idiot on issues about race his numbers would be better.

I'm not going to entertain this anymore. I honestly hate it when white people make statements like this. But I'm not surprised the out of touch atlas left does.

K

[amdcpus]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

I'm sure your two black friends in real life count as enough evidence. Yeah black politicians, the same ones who hardly ever represent the interests of their constituents obviously know so much about this issue. Maybe if Pete actually did something and didnt come off as an idiot on issues about race his numbers would be better.

I'm not going to entertain this anymore. I honestly hate it when white people make statements like this. But I'm not surprised the out of touch atlas left does.

I mean, it's a pretty objective statement.

[GP270watch]

 He has ZERO percent black support in some polls, so let's stop making excuses.

 He and any other Democrat isn't owed support from the black community. He has to earn their support and he's failed to do so spectacularly.
 

[Saint Milei]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1190375615167373312?s=20

I mean, he’s polling poorly with African-Americans in no small part due to that community’s homophobia, so that part isn’t really his fault.  Oh and also because he fired a crooked police chief who happened to be black, but again not his fault the guy decided to commit a felony.

Funny how literally everyone I've seen make this take is white.

Is it really a "take" when you can just look at the polling? African-American support for gay marriage is routinely 10% lower than white support for it.

I think ur missing the point about it only being white people, typically privileged white people making statements like that.

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

I'm sure your two black friends in real life count as enough evidence. Yeah black politicians, the same ones who hardly ever represent the interests of their constituents obviously know so much about this issue. Maybe if Pete actually did something and didnt come off as an idiot on issues about race his numbers would be better.

I'm not going to entertain this anymore. I honestly hate it when white people make statements like this. But I'm not surprised the out of touch atlas left does.

I mean, it's a pretty objective statement.

It's an objective statement that blacks are homophobic?

[Sir Mohamed]

Opposition to SSM isn't automatically homophobic, which means per definition, hatred of gays and lesbians. I know some people, US and foreign, who oppose SSM but are not homophobic and would definitely vote for Buttigieg over Trump.

[free my dawg]

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

There are a lot of key problems with this. I'm not gonna sit here and deny the evidence that the community is more homophobic, but I don't believe there's a significant correlation between Buttigieg's lack of black support and homophobia. This isn't implying you're racist - just an amusing anecdote about how the only black person espousing this is Clyburn.

* While the black community may be less accepting of homosexuality, they're more tolerant of LGBT rights. According to the Pew Research study that John Dule cited, the gap between black support for gay marriage and other races' support is narrowing quickly. In addition, blacks are the least likely race to support service refusals for being LGBT and are also supportive of non-discrimination laws. Sure, they may be more homophobic, but not to the point of codifying discrimination or supporting anti-LGBT candidates.

* The focus group you cite consists of 24 people in South Carolina. You can't extrapolate the opinions of 24 people across millions.

* Those who are more likely to rule out Buttigieg already are older black Democrats. Most of them are already locked in for Biden. They know what they're getting with him, and his connection to the Obama administration helped him build bonds in the black community. He's much more honest than, say, Buttigieg himself. In the off chance he falters, Buttigieg's only chance of gaining ground is to familiarize himself in the community, which he's utterly failed to do.

Saying that Boykins is a corrupt felon handwaves the other parts of his apologism. He never was formally charged with wiretapping, and set up the wiretap in order to investigate racism in his police department. It also doesn't help that when one of the racist cops involved ran for sheriff, Buttigieg's inner circle donated to him.

His police record is also much deeper than Boykins. Even today, South Bend PD is mostly white, hires mostly white officers, and protects its bad ones. Look up the name Aaron Knepper and tell me I'm wrong. The guy has a seven-year laundry list of misconduct, but still is employed on the force. I wonder why... could it be that Buttigieg hired a former police union president, and Knepper is the current treasurer of said police union?

Or could it be that Knepper was involved in the recent shooting that brought Pete's police record into the limelight?

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Opposition to SSM isn't automatically homophobic, which means per definition, hatred of gays and lesbians. I know some people, US and foreign, who oppose SSM but are not homophobic and would definitely vote for Buttigieg over Trump.

If you don't want gay people to have the same rights as straight people--whether it's in marriage, adoption, housing, employment, whatever--you are homophobic. Denying equal rights to people based on things they did not choose is inherently an act of hatred.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I have seen enough evidence that I don’t think I’m making an even remotely unreasonable assumption by stating that one of them the major reasons Buttigieg does so poorly with African-American voters is that he’s gay.  That evidence has come in the form of focus group results (https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html), admissions from African-American politicians (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/11/03/sotu-clyburn-buttigieg.cnn), and anecdotal evidence from conversations I’ve had with African-Americans I know personally who have talked about the homophobic comments their friends and family members have made over the years. 

There are a lot of key problems with this. I'm not gonna sit here and deny the evidence that the community is more homophobic, but I don't believe there's a significant correlation between Buttigieg's lack of black support and homophobia. This isn't implying you're racist - just an amusing anecdote about how the only black person espousing this is Clyburn.

* While the black community may be less accepting of homosexuality, they're more tolerant of LGBT rights. According to the Pew Research study that John Dule cited, the gap between black support for gay marriage and other races' support is narrowing quickly. In addition, blacks are the least likely race to support service refusals for being LGBT and are also supportive of non-discrimination laws. Sure, they may be more homophobic, but not to the point of codifying discrimination or supporting anti-LGBT candidates.

* The focus group you cite consists of 24 people in South Carolina. You can't extrapolate the opinions of 24 people across millions.

* Those who are more likely to rule out Buttigieg already are older black Democrats. Most of them are already locked in for Biden. They know what they're getting with him, and his connection to the Obama administration helped him build bonds in the black community. He's much more honest than, say, Buttigieg himself. In the off chance he falters, Buttigieg's only chance of gaining ground is to familiarize himself in the community, which he's utterly failed to do.

Saying that Boykins is a corrupt felon handwaves the other parts of his apologism. He never was formally charged with wiretapping, and set up the wiretap in order to investigate racism in his police department. It also doesn't help that when one of the racist cops involved ran for sheriff, Buttigieg's inner circle donated to him.

His police record is also much deeper than Boykins. Even today, South Bend PD is mostly white, hires mostly white officers, and protects its bad ones. Look up the name Aaron Knepper and tell me I'm wrong. The guy has a seven-year laundry list of misconduct, but still is employed on the force. I wonder why... could it be that Buttigieg hired a former police union president, and Knepper is the current treasurer of said police union?

Or could it be that Knepper was involved in the recent shooting that brought Pete's police record into the limelight?

- I suppose a better way to say it might be that Buttigieg’s openness about it probably has hurt him with AA voters (especially older ones), but isn’t the only reason he struggles with them.

- I thought it was 40, but either way, fair.  I don’t think it’s findings should simply be dismissed out of hand though. 

- This is a fair point, although I do think Buttigieg has tried to reach out.  The optics over his handling of that shooting (especially the fact that Buttigieg responded with nuance instead of first sympathizing with people’s emotional pain and letting them feel heard - sometimes people need to know you get where they’re coming from before you get into the nuance and legal complexities) may have poisoned the well so much that Buttigieg’s subsequent outreach efforts were DOA.

- I disagree on Boykins.  He’s charged with enforcing the law and I shudder to think what the world would look like if cops could break the law whenever they felt it was justified (we have too much of that already).  Boykins should’ve known better than most that what he did was wrong and while he may have had good intentions, his conduct absolutely warranted his firing imo. 

- This is a fair point.  Andrew Knepper seems like a vile human being and the fact he was on the force for so long is...troubling at best.  I gotta admit, upon further review Buttigieg seems to have a much worse record on police issues than I realized.  I’m sure that’s also a factor in his lack of support from AA voters (at least those at all familiar with his record as mayor).  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[lfromnj]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Question_6
The 80% white McCain Romney Trump county voted for gay marriage
The 70% black 90% obama clinton county voted against gay marriage.
I guess it would probably vote for gay marriage now but not by much.

Is that enough evidence for all of you?

This too Prince George's county isn't some random rural backwater South Carolina county, its one of the wealthier/suburban/urban counties in the US and its the wealthiest black community in the US. Rural counties in the south are definitely more socon than Prince George's. Maybe the trend of the past 6 years did cancel it out but I am not 100% sure about that.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Without even bringing up the gay card, there are plenty of reasons why he has failed to secure much support from African-Americans so far. I don't think they'll affect him much, if any, in the general election, but they may keep him from getting the nomination.

[libertpaulian]

Without even bringing up the gay card, there are plenty of reasons why he has failed to secure much support from African-Americans so far. I don't think they'll affect him much, if any, in the general election, but they may keep him from getting the nomination.

If he does get the nomination, could he excite enough of them to win the "Big Three" that Hillary lost in 2016?  I'm not even going to delve into the matter of expanding the map into AA-rich states like NC, GA, and FL.