Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread

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Why can't Bernie just go away? He's not even a Democrat.

LOL. You say that as if it's a bad thing.

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Can Bernie supporters explain these for me? Especially those who don't like Kamala Harris.


Also, why hasn't Bernie released his most of his tax returns? Why did he vote against Russian sanctions (Magnitsky Act)? Why did he hire someone with connections to Paul Manafort? (Tad Devine)

Part of his voting base last time was people who feel uncomfortable voting for black candidates. The problem for him is that a lot of those people are not going to pull a Democratic ballot this time and will only vote in the general for Trump.

Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

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Hillary voters were significantly more likely to be anti Muslim than Bernie supporters, and so were probably also more likely to be racist.

I'm not talking about polling, I'm talking about actual votes. Some of his best counties in states that he lost were the more conservative ones. That suggest he was more of a protest vote than anything else in a lot of places.

No, it just suggested that he did better in rural areas among those people who voted in the Democratic primary. Hillary did quite well in the Arkansas primary, which wasn't very friendly to Obama.

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https://twitter.com/JediofGallifrey/status/1089291084000346112

Who is this guy and why should we care about his conspiracy theories?

You know, former DNC chair Ed Rendell said he would support an independent Bloomberg run if Bernie got the nomination?

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Sanders' base went to Clinton 91-9, which is the best retention rate since 2000.

Seriously, Ive made this same comment about 3 times on this thread. Its simply not true.

I'm assuming from the 100% total there that the 91%-9% figure is between Clinton and Trump only and does not include Stein, Johnson, write-in votes, and abstentions.

You are right, found the Stein/Johnson numbers

If we are to talk about abstentions, the percentage is 4%. So, out of the 100% of Sanders voters, 4% stayed home, 12% voted for Trump, 78% voted for Clinton, and 6% for a 3rd party.

 This puts Sanders voters below 2012 GOP voters, but above GOP 2016, 2008, 2000, and DEM 2008, 2004, and 2000.

So, still not really that much.

Wait, how did you go from 91%/9% to 78% Clinton / 12% Trump / 10% 3rd party or didn't vote?  What does the 91/9 represent?

Also, a later tweet in that thread:

https://twitter.com/aaron_strauss/status/900361632747896834

shows that 78% is lower than the comparable number for GOP 2008.  I don't know how it compares to the others without tracking down whatever original source this guy was quoting.

I was using a different source for the original numbers, one that didnt include abstains and 3rd parties, so just disregard the original.

Also, havent seen this source for 2008 GOP, very interesting. That would mean the GOP has generally been more united after a primary than the Dems(makes a lot of sense saying it out loud).

And Sanders should have been aware of this. Instead of actively working against the trend he reinforced it.

These are the best numbers for D retention out of a primary since 2000. It doesnt get better than this.

And Hillary delivered fewer voters for Obama while Obama had his donors pay off her debts, he named her Secretary of State, and he helped clear the field for her in 2016, in particular by convincing Biden not to run.

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I supported him in 2016 and I'll likely support him again depending on whose campaign turns out to be stronger between him and Warren. They both represent the direction I want to see the country going in. It isn't more complicated than that for me.

That would probably be Bernie, but if Warren started clearly doing better than him, I think he'd drop out and endorse her.

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https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1074023088428380161

It's pretty clear Sanders voters didn't cost Clinton the 2016 election, no matter which numbers you look at. Keep in mind more people voted in the GOP primaries in 2016 than the Democratic primaries nationwide, so the GOP defectors are more in number.

There's also this to consider:
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1074029583417139200

Nearly all Sanders-Trump voters were Obama disapprovers. That suggests that many Sanders-Trump voters were registered Dems who were protest voting in closed primaries. We can see this in places like the Florida Panhandle (where Dems have registration advantages in VERY Republican counties), West Virginia, the coalfields of Kentucky, etc. where Bernie did well in uniformly GOP counties with large Dem registration advantages thanks to Dem ancestry.

How do we know this is because of that though? Consider 2008 primary defectors:

2008 primary defectors were less likely to happen in the open primary states than closed primary states. This makes sense because people who switched parties in open primary states will vote in the  party they now prefer's primary, while they won't in closed primary states because most people never change their registration. That's also why Orange County, CA (Clinton +9 county entirely represented by Democrats in Congress) still has a solid R registration advantage.


TL:DR: No, Bernie-Trump voters did not cost Clinton at all, because the vast majority of them were going to vote Trump even if Bernie was the nominee anyway.

Sanders supporters who voted for Stein or Johnson in Michigan, Wisconsin & Pennsylvania cost Hillary the election.

If Stein wasn't on the ballot, even Michigan doesn't flip since exit polls showed that Hillary only would have won them 25-15.

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Samders never even tried to make a convincing case for Clinton. He constantly repeated that he endorsed her only because Trump was much worse.
Not to mention that a few hours before election day he essentially  signaled to his voters that it's OK to vote for Trump by saying he doesn't believe that whoever votes for him is a racist.

That statement made me sick, I suspect Bernie really does bond with the racists who stormed the Trump rallies. He could never understand the struggles of POC as living in a lilly white state for over 40 something years. This twitter comment will come back to haunt him when Kamala and others start to unleash attacks on his campaign.

Clearly an SNCC organizer who was arrested while fighting for desegregation in Chicago has no idea about the struggles of minorities.

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Samders never even tried to make a convincing case for Clinton. He constantly repeated that he endorsed her only because Trump was much worse.
Not to mention that a few hours before election day he essentially  signaled to his voters that it's OK to vote for Trump by saying he doesn't believe that whoever votes for him is a racist.

That statement made me sick, I suspect Bernie really does bond with the racists who stormed the Trump rallies. He could never understand the struggles of POC as living in a lilly white state for over 40 something years. This twitter comment will come back to haunt him when Kamala and others start to unleash attacks on his campaign.

Because if there was anyone in America circa 2016 who understood the struggles of POC, it was Hillary Clinton

Hillary has resided in states with significant POC populations. In the years since moving towards Vermont Bernie has shown no signs of communicating the problems facing minorities.

Chappaqua, New York is whiter than Burlington, Vermont.

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Does no one else find the absurdity of a 79 year old man being President?

Someone ask Beji Caid Essebsi what he thinks.

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Why does Bernie want to split the leftist vote? Does he really think he's the only candidate of sufficient purity? If he truly values the long-term strength of his cause, he'll endorse someone younger and fresher and not just hog his hardline supporters from other candidates who agree with him on practically every major issue.

Warren is a fair amount to his right, and not polling as well as him. Gabbard and Yang seem to be going nowhere. If the was a candidate anywhere as left and as strong as Bernie but younger, we'd be all for that candidate. But there isn't. This is nonsense that the other candidates all agree with him on practically every major issue. How many supported single payer before 2016 (or even 2017)? How many voted against all of the Trump military increases? It's insulting to claim that they are all like Bernie on the issues when a lot of them are obviously faking it.

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Why does Bernie want to split the leftist vote? Does he really think he's the only candidate of sufficient purity? If he truly values the long-term strength of his cause, he'll endorse someone younger and fresher and not just hog his hardline supporters from other candidates who agree with him on practically every major issue.

Warren is a fair amount to his right, and not polling as well as him. Gabbard and Yang seem to be going nowhere. If the was a candidate anywhere as left and as strong as Bernie but younger, we'd be all for that candidate. But there isn't. This is nonsense that the other candidates all agree with him on practically every major issue. How many supported single payer before 2016 (or even 2017)? How many voted against all of the Trump military increases? It's insulting to claim that they are all like Bernie on the issues when a lot of them are obviously faking it.

Right. So I assume you believe Bernie is faking it in regards to immigration, energy, and gun control too?

Bernie has a D- from the NRA, was clearly the more pro immigrant of the 2 major candidates last time, and I don't know where you're even going with bringing up energy.

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Bernie's people actually think he can compete in WV!!! If only IceSpear was here to react to this.



This map will come to fruition

Flipping seats with an improved performance in WV, and actually winning WV are two different things.

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That feeling when Bernie is going to be President and there's nothing shitlibs and the alt-right can do about it.

Lol good luck with that. Sanders will drop out after losing NH.

What makes you think that? NH is still,a good state for him.

Because Liz Warren will do really well there like MA candidates always do?

McCain beat Romney there.

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HAHA JFERN TRIGGERED

I don't need to agree with a candidate on every issue to support them. And that was 2 years ago.

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Sanders isn't necessarily all that different on the issues than a lot of Democrats, it's just his delivery that appeals to his supporters. He makes guarantees and that is what people want to hear.

He has plenty of differences. For example:

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Hope other candidates bring up the age issue directly and don't dance around it. Would you trust a 79 year old surgeon to perform on you? Like the President they also make life and death decisions.

Age is just a number. He seems to be in good health overall. Of course it isn’t ideal but it’s not a deal breaker.

No, 80 year old should be President. Being President is not like a regular job.

How old is too old then? This isn't as black and white as so may seem. Attacking him on his age is fair but it's not as simple as "Bernie is too old". If 80 is old, what about 70? Where do you draw the line?

I don't know.

If the best person the U.S. has to be President is an 80 year old man, then thats not a good thing.

The intensity and enormity of being President would not be healthy for an 80 year old man. Look at what the presiency did to Clinton and Obama and they were both relatively young and healthy (as President).

The Malaysian Prime Minister and Tunisian President were democratically elected and are in their 90s. Bernie is absolutely the best person for President in 2020. We'll see about 2024 when that comes up.

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https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Bernie's odds of dying before 2024 aren't that high especially as he's in good health.

I don't think him dying in office should be a concern.  If he dies, then the VP takes over, so not really a problem.  The problem is more if he (or Biden, or any other similarly old candidate) experiences significant physical and/or mental decline while in office, and is no longer to operate in the job at 100%.  Ideally, we'd get some kind of guarantee before they're sworn in that they'd resign if that were to happen, though I'm not sure if there's a good way to do that.

I'm sure Bernie would invoke the 25th amendment if he was unable to perform his duties as President.

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https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Bernie's odds of dying before 2024 aren't that high especially as he's in good health.

Just did the math, the odds of a 77-year-old male living to age 82 is 70.28%, according to that link. 

Now take into account that they are a US Senator in good health.

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I guess its time for Harry Enten to move him from no7 at power rankings of dem candidates LOL

Next big myth is that he hasn't support like in 2016 because the field is wider. Actually that helps him because he has strong base.

Next one is that all candidates are adopting his positions so he can't distinguish himself. That's the best one. All these other medicare-for-all are not going to be Bernie after Bernie, they're always going to be late to that party when he is running.

It's Harry Enten. He must continue to be hilariously wrong about everything.

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Daily Kos comment section was brutal on Bernie, apparently they don't want an "old white man".

I saw a post blaming Russians for Bernie winning their straw poll.

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My reaction:

https://twitter.com/bessbell/status/1097897255904829440
 

I’m not even sure what point they’re trying to make. Is there one?

Many women are afraid of the harassment that would come forward from the Bernie cult that refuses to die out the misogynist taunts  that's hurried  towards extremely brave women like Hillary Clinton or Kamala Harris. It's saddening when freedom of speech is repressed by an all powerful demographic  group that wants to cease any opposition to a candidate they support. In a nation like America this shouldn't be the case under our democracy. If this all erupted during metoo fiasco of the past few years the media would've been harder on Bernie to call out on his disgraceful supporters.

Bernie Sanders should address this important issue during the campaign trail or at least confessed it with an interviewer that wants his take on the Bernie Bro phenomenon.

Amazing. A post so bad that it's good.

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There appears to be a very loud yet tiny minority on the left that regurgitates neoliberal media talking points, they seem to have a strong presence on this board, but ultimately I believe sanders will sweep this primary in a trumpian fashion.

It truly baffles me how Bernie bros will ignore all polls and facts all to protect their dear Saint Bernard. Bernie's path involves winning narrowly in a split primary, he will not be dominating and I think you know that, lol.

You mean like the dailykos poll where he got 40%

No, I mean every other poll where he trails Biden (who hasn't even announced) by 10 points.

Are you willing to bet that Biden does better in the primaries than Bernie? Because I would definitely bet against that.

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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1099380342018912257

Good on Bernie for standing against dictators. Shame most of the responses are deranged tankie maniacs who are now calling Bernie a pawn of Dick Cheney. Socialist apologism for Maduro is disgusting.

Sad to see Sanders take this approach. My support for him is tepid already, and rhetoric of this sort certainly isn't helping

I agree that he needs to stand up to the military industrial complex more. But with Gabbard going nowhere, there really isn't another option.

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"Just sent out an email for people to be respectful during the campaign"

"Oh yeah, well you got the endorsement from the NRA and have a Stein voter as a co-chair. Nothing has changed."

Sensing a huge disconnect.

Actions speak louder than words.

Hey Obama boy....leave us Bernie bros alone

False equivalency but ok.

Yawn...Every election is the same tired out talking points exchanged between competing factions and parties that have existed since the beginning of politics. Something something sexism something something racism something something other side this otherside that blah blah blah

LL is pretending to care about the actions of one side because he wants his side to win. Meanwhile his side was dishing out the same recycled garbage a decade ago

I mean, you Bernie Bros were pretty misogynistic during the primary. I'm not saying you were misogynistic, but a lot of people in your group would harass supporters of Hillary Clinton with hateful language.

Like I said...they said the same thing about the last guy. Every election...its the same stuff said over and over but of course this time...''its different...I mean your side really went far this time!''

Why do Bernie supporters keep linking this article as if it's proof of their case? Hillary Clinton faced sexism from overenthusiastic supporters of her main male opponent in the primaries both times.

Source: was around for both campaigns.

Because everyone is pretending to care in order to get one over the other side. If you identify with the Biden/Harris/Clinton faction then you'll look the other way and make accusations against the other side that your own side has engaged in. For example...Sanders is characterized as racist but meanwhile look at Biden's Congressional record, or Harris's DA record, or Clinton's racist campaign against Obama in 2008. But of course...if that's your side then you'll just look the other way or excuse it. But what lies at the heart of it is you want your side to win so you find ways to rationalize and explain it away by pointing out what the other side has done.

Is there misogyny and racism in some Sanders supporters? Oh I'm sure there is... but if you hate him...you can dig deep enough to find it even when its not there (Same goes for every political faction) and interpret any event/or comment to fit that narrative.

Also Suburban Elitist...have you taken a good look at your party and the guy who runs it? (Trump) Really rich for you to go around characterizing others as misogynisic. Opps...see what I did there?

Undoubtedly there's some of that going on and it's unfortunate, but there are also those of us who call it like we see it.

Those same people who cried sexism whenever Hillary was criticized went nuclear on Gabbard.