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  Spanish elections and politics II (investiture failed, countdown for elections)
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Velasco
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« Reply #800 on: July 18, 2019, 03:21:26 pm »
« edited: July 18, 2019, 03:49:24 pm by Velasco »

The results of the Podemos consultation have been publicized this evening. Unsurprisingly 70% supported the option backed by Pablo Iglesias, that is "integrated coalition without exclusions". The second option was a "government designed by the PSOE, collaboration at administrative levels subordinate to the government and programmatic agreement". The wording of the second proposal angered Pedro Sánchez, who claimed having offered the incorporation of Podemos ministers with a "technocratic" profile (implying the exclusion of Pablo Iglesias and other members of party leadership).

More importantly, this morning Pedro Sánchez made abundantly clear that Pablo Iglesias is the main obstacle for a deal between PSOE and Podemos. The acting PM was crystal clear in an interview with journalist Antonio Ferreras. Sánchez said he cannot accept the presence of Iglesias due to the deep differences in affairs of state, namely the crisis in Catalonia. "Pablo Iglesias talks about political prisoners (referring to separatist leaders awaiting judgment) and I need a Deputy PM who defends the Spanish democracy". The ruling of the Supreme Court is expected to be in October and the acting PM fears turbulence in Catalonia, so he wants inner unity in his cabinet to face the situation. Another reason argued by Sánchez is mutual distrust, referring to some statements made by Iglesias remarking the presence of Podemos is necessary to ensure the compliance of agreements. Sánchez also claims that all the conversations between him and Iglesias have been focused in the re partition of ministries (Iglesias would have demanded Finance, Labour or Communication). Despite these words, Sánchez reiterates his coalition offer consisting in the incorporation of "skilled" Podemos members. However, he warned the offer expires after the investiture vote. Sánchez also reiterates his appeal to PP and Cs to abstain allowing the investiture. No doubt Pedro Sánchez is playing strong.

In other news: "Spain will propose economy minister as new IMF chief if backed by EU"

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/18/inenglish/1563435731_182529.html

Quote
The Spanish government is ready to nominate its economy minister, Nadia Calviño, to head the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as long as she receives enough support from other European countries.

The EU’s proposal to put current IMF chief Christine Lagarde at the helm of the European Central Bank has opened up a race for her succession. EU countries want to put forward a single candidate to increase their chances of having a European in control of the Washington-based organization (...)
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Velasco
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« Reply #801 on: July 19, 2019, 09:12:42 am »

Socialists are now open to the incorporation of any Podemos member to a coalition government, with the sole exception of Pablo Iglesias. This means the incorporation of people with a "political profile" like the second-in-line Irene Montero is possible now, while the previous offer to Podemos was limited to people with a "technical profile"

200 artists make a plea for a progressive government

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/19/inenglish/1563525487_105458.html

Quote
  A group of Spanish artists has signed a manifesto urging the Socialist Party (PSOE) and Unidas Podemos to reach a governing deal in order to prevent a repeat election.

 
Javier Bardem and 200 other artists make plea for a progressive government in Spain
With talks between the Socialists and Podemos at a deadlock, a group of writers and performers has signed a manifesto demanding a deal to avoid a repeat election.

The petition is signed by more than 200 personalities from the world of culture, including actor Javier Bardem (No Country for Old Men, The Sea Inside), writer Almudena Grandes (The Ages of Lulu, The Wind From the East) and film director Iciar Bollaín (Take My Eyes, Flowers From Another World) (...)

The manifesto states: “The April elections opened up the possibility that a progressive majority could reach an understanding to govern together. The people came out in force to send a clear message: We don’t want the far right anywhere near the mechanisms of power. But the general enthusiasm after the elections is dissipating as the PSOE and Unidas Podemos struggle to reach an agreement in government negotiations.”

“No party won a big enough majority to govern alone and polls have since shown that the people prefer for there to be an agreement between progressive parties. Now is the time to make a deal, come to an understanding, reach an agreement. Now is the time to make policy for the people,” the manifesto adds.

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jaichind
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« Reply #802 on: July 19, 2019, 10:25:06 am »

Socialists are now open to the incorporation of any Podemos member to a coalition government, with the sole exception of Pablo Iglesias. This means the incorporation of people with a "political profile" like the second-in-line Irene Montero is possible now, while the previous offer to Podemos was limited to people with a "technical profile"

200 artists make a plea for a progressive government

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/19/inenglish/1563525487_105458.html

Quote
  A group of Spanish artists has signed a manifesto urging the Socialist Party (PSOE) and Unidas Podemos to reach a governing deal in order to prevent a repeat election.

 
Javier Bardem and 200 other artists make plea for a progressive government in Spain
With talks between the Socialists and Podemos at a deadlock, a group of writers and performers has signed a manifesto demanding a deal to avoid a repeat election.

The petition is signed by more than 200 personalities from the world of culture, including actor Javier Bardem (No Country for Old Men, The Sea Inside), writer Almudena Grandes (The Ages of Lulu, The Wind From the East) and film director Iciar Bollaín (Take My Eyes, Flowers From Another World) (...)

The manifesto states: “The April elections opened up the possibility that a progressive majority could reach an understanding to govern together. The people came out in force to send a clear message: We don’t want the far right anywhere near the mechanisms of power. But the general enthusiasm after the elections is dissipating as the PSOE and Unidas Podemos struggle to reach an agreement in government negotiations.”

“No party won a big enough majority to govern alone and polls have since shown that the people prefer for there to be an agreement between progressive parties. Now is the time to make a deal, come to an understanding, reach an agreement. Now is the time to make policy for the people,” the manifesto adds.



Would this approach even further anger Pablo Iglesias?  It is like saying "we will work with anyone but you personally". Now it is not even about ideology but personality.
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Velasco
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« Reply #803 on: July 19, 2019, 10:52:41 am »

Urgent news: Pablo Iglesias steps aside and gives up his pretension to be  in the government, providing there are no more exclusions and UP can select its prople getting a share proportional to its size. "I won't be the pretext for the PSOE to prevent a left-wing coalition government"

https://elpais.com/politica/2019/07/19/actualidad/1563550732_115972.html
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bigic
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« Reply #804 on: July 19, 2019, 11:50:07 am »

How much of the time spent on arguing between PSOE and Podemos could be used for negotiations with minor parties?
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Velasco
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« Reply #805 on: July 20, 2019, 05:51:06 am »
« Edited: July 20, 2019, 05:59:36 am by Velasco »

How much of the time spent on arguing between PSOE and Podemos could be used for negotiations with minor parties?

In case PSOE and Podemos reach an agreement, Pedro Sánchez could pass with relative ease the second investiture vote taking place on Thursday next week. I guess the PSOE will have to carry out parallel talks with PNV and Compromís, but both parties are willing to reach an agreement. On the other hand, ERC and Bildu spokepersons stated they won't be an obstacle for the investiture, which can be interpreted as a likely abstention. JxCAT is expected to vote against, following instructions from Puigdemont.

A possible investiture scenario, providing the negotiations against the clock between PSOE and UP are successful, could be:

173 in favour: PSOE, UP, PNV, Compromís, PRC
19 abstentions: ERC, EH Bildu
158 against: PP, Cs, Vox, JxCAT, CC, UPN

Simple majority (enough to pass the second vote)



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Velasco
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« Reply #806 on: July 20, 2019, 05:53:15 am »
« Edited: July 20, 2019, 09:34:57 am by Velasco »

According to journalist Enric Juliana, Dilma Rousseff contacted Iglesias and advised him not to carry the responsibility for a new election on his shoulder, as the consequences would be devastating for him and Podemos. In other words, Iglesias gave up to prevent the suicide of his organization

https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20190720/463591241649/el-mensaje-de-dilma-rousseff.html
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #807 on: July 20, 2019, 11:12:06 am »

According to journalist Enric Juliana, Dilma Rousseff contacted Iglesias and advised him not to carry the responsibility for a new election on his shoulder, as the consequences would be devastating for him and Podemos. In other words, Iglesias gave up to prevent the suicide of his organization

https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20190720/463591241649/el-mensaje-de-dilma-rousseff.html
Why is Dilma Rousseff relevant to Spain?
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #808 on: July 20, 2019, 12:34:49 pm »

According to journalist Enric Juliana, Dilma Rousseff contacted Iglesias and advised him not to carry the responsibility for a new election on his shoulder, as the consequences would be devastating for him and Podemos. In other words, Iglesias gave up to prevent the suicide of his organization

https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20190720/463591241649/el-mensaje-de-dilma-rousseff.html
Why is Dilma Rousseff relevant to Spain?

Apparently, his Chief of Staff, Pablo Gentili, & her are close.
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Velasco
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« Reply #809 on: July 20, 2019, 10:55:16 pm »
« Edited: July 21, 2019, 12:30:55 am by Velasco »

According to journalist Enric Juliana, Dilma Rousseff contacted Iglesias and advised him not to carry the responsibility for a new election on his shoulder, as the consequences would be devastating for him and Podemos. In other words, Iglesias gave up to prevent the suicide of his organization

https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20190720/463591241649/el-mensaje-de-dilma-rousseff.html
Why is Dilma Rousseff relevant to Spain?

Apparently, his Chief of Staff, Pablo Gentili, & her are close.

Pablo Gentili is an Argentinian professor who worked  for Lula and Dilma before, as well he has been adviser for the governments of Colombia and Argentina. Gentili was hired recently by Pablo Iglesias, who wanted someone experienced to work alongside the Podemos' young cadres. Possibly Dilma was informed of the situation by Gentili and contacted Pablo Iglesias. Apparently she advised the Podemos leader to keep cool. Iglesias is clever and got the message.
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Velasco
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« Reply #810 on: July 21, 2019, 08:35:55 am »

Negotiations are being held in a climate of secretiveness. The PSOE team is headed by Deputy PM Carmen Calvo alongside parliamentary spokeswoman Adriana Lastra and Finance minister María Jesús Montero. The UP team is headed by Pablo Echenique and Irene Montero. The chicken game between Sánchez and Iglesias that ended last Friday have forced a sleepless negotiation against the clock. However, the budget settlement between PSOE and UP provides a basis for programmatic agreement. Actually both parties had prepared the documents for negotiations since months ago, but their staffs have been focused exclusively on communication strategies and narratives. UP nominations and office sharing would be the major obstacles. The share of UP ministries could range between 3 and 5 or 6, depending if it's calculated by seats in parliament or by popular vote (the PSOE-UP ratio is 3:1 and 2;1, respectively)



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/21/spain-socialist-government-sanchez-iglesias-catalonia

Quote
  Spain is likely to install a leftwing government this week after Pablo Iglesias, leader of the anti-austerity Podemos, agreed to step aside to enable a coalition between his party and the Socialist Workers’ party, led by Pedro Sánchez.

Months of wrangling since April’s general election came to a head last week when Sánchez said he was prepared to form a coalition on the condition that Iglesias did not have a ministerial position. He said Iglesias was “the principal obstacle” to agreeing on a coalition, adding that other Podemos members would be offered cabinet positions. Among those tipped to join the government is Irene Montero, the party’s number two, who is also Iglesias’s partner.

“We are convinced we are going to reach an agreement in response to the millions of people who voted on 28 April for a progressive government,” Adriana Lastra, the Socialist party spokeswoman, said.

“Over the next few days we will work with discretion and loyalty with the aim that next week the country will have a functioning government,” she added. “We are going to talk about the program and the reforms the country needs.”(...)

Assuming it all goes ahead, the coalition government will have to deal with a country that is still hauling itself out of recession. Overall unemployment stands at around 14%, and more than twice that for 18-24-year-olds. Meanwhile, there is growing unrest in Madrid and Barcelona over soaring rents, street crime and over-tourism, not to mention the perennial and intractable Catalan question.

But Sánchez is ambitious, both for himself and his country, which he wants to position as a leading force in southern Europe. After years of stagnation, Spain is now waiting to see if his campaign slogan “make it happen” has any substance.

Feminism, decent employment and climate crisis will be the focuses of the investiture speech, reports El País

https://elpais.com/politica/2019/07/20/actualidad/1563647948_991843.html
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Velasco
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« Reply #811 on: July 22, 2019, 06:20:18 pm »
« Edited: July 22, 2019, 06:25:48 pm by Velasco »

The first day of the investiture debate was depressing. Cs leader Albert Rivera is was particularly disastrous: overacting, deranged and resorting to conspiracy theories in the worst populist fashion. According to Rivera, Sánchez has a plan to destroy Spain. Currently the Cs leader is to the right of Casado and not so far from Vox, something like a modern José Antonio Primo de Rivera. Hearing his speech today, it's not difficult to understand why an increasing number of people is running away from the party. The relationship between Pedro Sánchez and Pablo Iglesias is strained, which is unsurprising. The Podemos leader showed restraint in his first reply to Sanchez, trying not to burn the bridges, but it became evident the negotiation is ran aground. Sánchez is not very enthusiastic with the idea of a coalition, apparently. Someone believes elections in November is not a bad idea.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/22/inenglish/1563807689_858287.html

Quote
 Spain’s acting prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, on Monday urged Congress to entrust him with office so that Spain “does not end up deadlocked.” (...)

In a two-hour address, Sánchez discussed the challenges that he will be tackling as the new leader of Spain: “Unemployment and precarious jobs, the digital revolution, the climate emergency, the discrimination of women and the future of Europe.” He also defended constitutional reforms to prevent future situations of post-election deadlock (...)
Towards the end of his speech, Sánchez appealed directly to Unidas Podemos: “Dealmaking is not easy, but we are united by the promise of the left.”

Podemos, which was aiming for a coalition government with the Socialists, says that so far Sánchez has only offered them “symbolic responsibilities” within his future government. The latter holds that a joint government with Podemos would be impossible due to irreconcilable differences over critical matters such as the situation in Catalonia (...)
 
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Lumine
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« Reply #812 on: July 22, 2019, 10:18:07 pm »

The first day of the investiture debate was depressing. Cs leader Albert Rivera is was particularly disastrous: overacting, deranged and resorting to conspiracy theories in the worst populist fashion. According to Rivera, Sánchez has a plan to destroy Spain. Currently the Cs leader is to the right of Casado and not so far from Vox, something like a modern José Antonio Primo de Rivera. Hearing his speech today, it's not difficult to understand why an increasing number of people is running away from the party. The relationship between Pedro Sánchez and Pablo Iglesias is strained, which is unsurprising. The Podemos leader showed restraint in his first reply to Sanchez, trying not to burn the bridges, but it became evident the negotiation is ran aground. Sánchez is not very enthusiastic with the idea of a coalition, apparently. Someone believes elections in November is not a bad idea.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/22/inenglish/1563807689_858287.html

Quote
 Spain’s acting prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, on Monday urged Congress to entrust him with office so that Spain “does not end up deadlocked.” (...)

In a two-hour address, Sánchez discussed the challenges that he will be tackling as the new leader of Spain: “Unemployment and precarious jobs, the digital revolution, the climate emergency, the discrimination of women and the future of Europe.” He also defended constitutional reforms to prevent future situations of post-election deadlock (...)
Towards the end of his speech, Sánchez appealed directly to Unidas Podemos: “Dealmaking is not easy, but we are united by the promise of the left.”

Podemos, which was aiming for a coalition government with the Socialists, says that so far Sánchez has only offered them “symbolic responsibilities” within his future government. The latter holds that a joint government with Podemos would be impossible due to irreconcilable differences over critical matters such as the situation in Catalonia (...)
 

Yeah, I had the chance to follow most of the debate and it was quite a mess. I do have a soft spot for C's, but even if Rivera scored some hits he sounded like a maniac with the "Plan Sánchez" nonsense and his absurdly aggressive tone.

Sánchez - though a decent orator - doesn't do himself any favors on account of his arrogance and blatant inconsistency, and Abascal was predictable and perhaps even forgettable.

I was far more impressed with Casado (who managed to sound measured and about a thousand times more mature than Rivera) and particularly with Iglesias, who probably won the day. If Sánchez wants to be President he can't expect every single other party to comply in exchange for nothing, and Podemos is most certainly not being treated fairly.
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yeah_93
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« Reply #813 on: July 23, 2019, 03:43:58 am »
« Edited: July 23, 2019, 06:29:27 am by yeah_93 »

I mean, it's not as if Sánchez didn't beg them to do as he wanted while driving everyone through the mud. Dunno how the backstage negotiations are going but the speeches were disastrous.
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tack50
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« Reply #814 on: July 23, 2019, 07:05:58 am »

Yeah it seems unlikely that a government will happen, and Sánchez will be the most blamed for the 2nd election if it does happen.

Certainly the polls with PSOE in the low-mid 30s are not to be believed. Most likely the right also falls short and we end up in a bigger mess
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tack50
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« Reply #815 on: July 23, 2019, 08:16:31 am »

Final result of the first round of votes (Majority needed: 176)

Yes: 124 (PSOE, PRC)
Abstain: 52 (UP, PNV, Bildu, Compromis)
No: 170 (PP, Cs, Vox, ERC, JxCat, CC, NA+)
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« Reply #816 on: July 23, 2019, 08:20:06 am »

Yeah it seems unlikely that a government will happen, and Sánchez will be the most blamed for the 2nd election if it does happen.

Certainly the polls with PSOE in the low-mid 30s are not to be believed. Most likely the right also falls short and we end up in a bigger mess

Yeah, I just am watching in amazement at how bad Sanchez is at politics. He may very well be booting one of the best situations for the left in Europe in a long while, all for no obvious reason other than a dramatically inflated sense of confidence. New elections will bury UP and strengthen PP, which strikes me as quite a lot worse for Sanchez than Podemos today. Amazing.
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tack50
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« Reply #817 on: July 23, 2019, 08:48:27 am »
« Edited: July 23, 2019, 09:09:16 am by tack50 »

Yeah it seems unlikely that a government will happen, and Sánchez will be the most blamed for the 2nd election if it does happen.

Certainly the polls with PSOE in the low-mid 30s are not to be believed. Most likely the right also falls short and we end up in a bigger mess

Yeah, I just am watching in amazement at how bad Sanchez is at politics. He may very well be booting one of the best situations for the left in Europe in a long while, all for no obvious reason other than a dramatically inflated sense of confidence. New elections will bury UP and strengthen PP, which strikes me as quite a lot worse for Sanchez than Podemos today. Amazing.

My theory is that Sanchez would rather crush UP and present himself as the uncontested leader of the Spanish left than risk UP eventually overtaking PSOE. Even if that means he won't be PM anymore
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« Reply #818 on: July 23, 2019, 09:28:21 am »

I fully understand Sanchez honestly. He has no majority anyway. What is the point if you cannot govern if you are trapped by terrorists (Bildu) and independentist (ERC)
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Velasco
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« Reply #819 on: July 23, 2019, 11:44:08 am »
« Edited: July 23, 2019, 11:50:50 am by Velasco »

Final result of the first round of votes (Majority needed: 176)

Yes: 124 (PSOE, PRC)
Abstain: 52 (UP, PNV, Bildu, Compromis)
No: 170 (PP, Cs, Vox, ERC, JxCat, CC, NA+)

The original intention of UP was to vote "no", but all the deputies except Irene Montero abstained. UP decided to give a last chance to the PSOE, while Deputy PM Carmen Calvo left the doors ipen in an appearance in Congress this morning. The reason why Montero'vvoted "no" is that she cast her vote telematically and early in the morning, as she stayed home caring her children (Pablo Iglesias is the father). UP decided to change the vote in a later meeting. Also, the tone of ERC spokesman Gabriel Rufián was more measured than it's usual in him. It's still possible that ERC abstains if PSOE and UP reach a last minute agreement, and they have already the abstention of Basque nationalist parties. Despite this result, the chances are slightly higher today and the general ambience is not as grim as tonight. Still, if agreement is possible and we have a government, the mutual distrust between coalition partners won't be easy to manage.
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« Reply #820 on: July 23, 2019, 11:53:56 am »

I fully understand Sanchez honestly. He has no majority anyway. What is the point if you cannot govern if you are trapped by terrorists (Bildu) and independentist (ERC)

The irony of course is that Sanchez is drawing the line at separatism despite the fact that Spanish politics is now such that no Socialist government can ever exist without the at least tacit support of separatists. Coalitional politics is hard, but Sanchez is making this harder than it needs to be.
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« Reply #821 on: July 23, 2019, 12:19:11 pm »

The first day of the investiture debate was depressing. Cs leader Albert Rivera is was particularly disastrous: overacting, deranged and resorting to conspiracy theories in the worst populist fashion. According to Rivera, Sánchez has a plan to destroy Spain. Currently the Cs leader is to the right of Casado and not so far from Vox, something like a modern José Antonio Primo de Rivera. Hearing his speech today, it's not difficult to understand why an increasing number of people is running away from the party. The relationship between Pedro Sánchez and Pablo Iglesias is strained, which is unsurprising. The Podemos leader showed restraint in his first reply to Sanchez, trying not to burn the bridges, but it became evident the negotiation is ran aground. Sánchez is not very enthusiastic with the idea of a coalition, apparently. Someone believes elections in November is not a bad idea.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/07/22/inenglish/1563807689_858287.html

Quote
 Spain’s acting prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, on Monday urged Congress to entrust him with office so that Spain “does not end up deadlocked.” (...)

In a two-hour address, Sánchez discussed the challenges that he will be tackling as the new leader of Spain: “Unemployment and precarious jobs, the digital revolution, the climate emergency, the discrimination of women and the future of Europe.” He also defended constitutional reforms to prevent future situations of post-election deadlock (...)
Towards the end of his speech, Sánchez appealed directly to Unidas Podemos: “Dealmaking is not easy, but we are united by the promise of the left.”

Podemos, which was aiming for a coalition government with the Socialists, says that so far Sánchez has only offered them “symbolic responsibilities” within his future government. The latter holds that a joint government with Podemos would be impossible due to irreconcilable differences over critical matters such as the situation in Catalonia (...)
 

So I got a depressing theory about Rivera, a theory that stems from his precarious position politically right now. C's right now, touches almost every part of the spectrum, but is a master of no particular position besides centralism, and as such is vulnerable. Now, this problem may not have emerged if PP didn't flub as much as it did, because these results gave C's an initiative to go and usurp leadership of the Spanish right. If all of VOX's seats were PP seats, I have a feeling Rivera may have tried to come to the table, despite the reservations on both sides, when the egos failed moderate themselves between PSOE and Podems. At the same time C's is trying to coup PP, they face opponents from all sides. PSOE is trying to pull the moderates and left away, VOX is trying to pull the nationalist faction away, and PP is trying to pull back their rightists.

So Rivera is doing something spooky. He sees the VOX base, and how voters on the far right easily deserted him and PP after Andalusia. But at the same time, C's noticed how VOX voters are not like normal post-industrial populists, they are similar to C's voters. They also noticed how VOX's brand has fallen out of favor. What Rivera wants to do methinks is kill off VOX before it even has a chance to prove itself, and reorient C's into a populist party. POSE+Podemos is exactly what Rivera wants since he can now attack the full government as sellouts to the regionalists, not just Podemos. It also explains the C's high commands desire to work with VOX locally when PSOE+C's is an option. They are happy to throw the small left leaning wing of their party under the bus for a similar reason, but potentially not a good one in the long term.

I have no idea how this play will work in the long run, only I can suspect that it will lead to a C's that hardly resembles the one we now today.
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« Reply #822 on: July 23, 2019, 02:07:20 pm »

I think there is a good chance PSOE and Podemos will come to an agreement as it is in neither's interest to have another election, but even then it is still 166 in favour to 169 against so Sanchez needs to get either PNV or El Bildu, both Basque nationalists to vote in favour which may be tough or one either the Catalan nationalists or Citizens to abstain which seems unlikely, especially with the latter.  Still new elections are not inevitable, no doubt all parties will look at the polls and there is a chance one blinks, but also wouldn't be shocked if new elections happen.  There is a slight chance PSOE + Podemos might get majority as in European elections they got 176 seats, but a strong roll of the dice.  The right could also win a plurality, but a majority will be even more challenging although they can probably count on Navarre+ supporting them, but in terms of abstentions, I doubt they would get anymore than left would asides from maybe Canarian Coalition.

Real problem is Spain is not used to minority governments so no incentive for anyone to cooperate whereas in other countries like Germany, Netherlands, and Nordic Countries, minorities are the norm so parties have more incentive to cooperate.  Since minorities appear to be the norm in the future, I suspect one of two things will happen:
1.  They will start cooperating and in fact Citizens being in the centre may show greater openness to work with other side.  Heck the equivalents of PP and PSOE in Germany are right now in a coalition, but that is probably a bridge too far.
2.  Like Italy and Greece, they introduce bonus seats to increase the chance of a majority

One reason why I am glad where I live uses FTFP since for all its flaws, things like this happen far less often.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #823 on: July 23, 2019, 02:18:46 pm »

Real problem is Spain is not used to minority governments so no incentive for anyone to cooperate whereas in other countries like Germany, Netherlands, and Nordic Countries, minorities are the norm so parties have more incentive to cooperate. 
LOLno
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urutzizu
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« Reply #824 on: July 23, 2019, 03:25:36 pm »

One reason why I am glad where I live uses FTFP since for all its flaws, things like this happen far less often.

Pls, just dont. We get it, you like FPTP, but going to European threads with little actual knowledge of the political situation, and saying that FPTP would be better and we would not have all this mess, it is really not very helpful. You are not the only guy doing it, computer89 was doing it on the Israel thread too, for example. The rest of your post was not an issue for me, but this, this is really beating a dead horse.

Also, like Canada has had a ton of minority Governments too, despite FPTP.
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