44 Senate Dems vote against providing life-saving healthcare to newborns

[MasterJedi]

Not surprised. The U.S. pro-death side has become completely unhinged.

Well the pro-birth side doesn't care, once they're born they can officially die right after that if any government money is needed. Remember, the US pro death Republican party voted to kill thousands by ending Obamacare.

[Yellowhammer]

The left is literally a death cult, news @ 11.

[GP270watch]

Not surprised. The U.S. pro-death side has become completely unhinged.

Well the pro-birth side doesn't care, once they're born they can officially die right after that if any government money is needed. Remember, the US pro death Republican party voted to kill thousands by ending Obamacare.

 We have Americans who are literally rationing their insulin because they can't afford the correct dosages. The Republicans have no credibility on this issue. It's just another stunt to pander to religious zealotry, patriarchal oppression, and puritanical righteousness . It has nothing to do with actual compassion, human rights, and protection of the vulnerable.

[Senator Incitatus]

Not surprised. The U.S. pro-death side has become completely unhinged.

Well the pro-birth side doesn't care, once they're born they can officially die right after that if any government money is needed. Remember, the US pro death Republican party voted to kill thousands by ending Obamacare.

 We have Americans who are literally rationing their insulin because they can't afford the correct dosages. The Republicans have no credibility on this issue. It's just another stunt to pander to religious zealotry, patriarchal oppression, and puritanical righteousness . It has nothing to do with actual compassion, human rights, and protection of the vulnerable.

Why doesn't this work both ways? How can the Democratic Party claim to protect life and humanity when they vote this way?

The parties are blinded by greed, and their struggle to gain the upper hand has drowned them both in dishonor. The only shame is that our entire nation is beholden to these two collections of human scum.

Or, more succinctly:

Stunt bills by pro-lifers, co-opted by the most odious of the religious right, don't really help their cause.

Who cares how odious they are, they're fighting for basic human rights in this situation.

[Senator Incitatus]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

If "abortion clinics" refers to organizations that would intentionally allow a child to die by failing to provide care, they should all be shut down forever. If they are what you say they are, empty them all out and burn them to the ground.

[DC Al Fine]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

/thread

^^^ This

Wow, abortion clinics are routinely denying care to babies who survive abortion?  And there's no way to change this without shutting them down?

It has a criminal penalty of 5 years for a vague set of circumstances like "immediately admitting and transporting the child to a hospital"  and "same degree of care/skill/diligence that would be given to any other child born alive"

It would leave abortion providers extremely vulnerable to lawsuits with severe criminal penalties.  

It's black and white that this bill has a simple aim to shutdown abortion providers.

Yes, admittedly if an attempted abortion results in a dead or severely injured newborn, the abortion provider could be open to prosecution or lawsuits.  If that worries abortion providers enough for them to close their doors, that says something.

This whole debate makes it very clear how impractical it is for birth to be the thing that grants a child rights, since things happen to a child before birth that can cause injury or death to them afterwards. So you have to choose, which is more important to protect, late-term abortion or the lives of born children.

What is the medical situation of the large majority of fetuses in the cases of late-term abortion?

I don’t know if you genuinely don’t know these are non-viable fetuses who are destined to die within a few hours of birth if they survive at all, or if you do and are being disingenuous.

The Guttmacher Institute found that

a) A majority of late term abortions are for reasons other than fetal defect or mother's life/health

b) Approximately 40% of women getting late term abortions cited "didn't know I was pregnant" as a major reason for getting a late term abortion.

The CDC says 1.3% of abortions are late term and that there  were about 640,000 abortions in 2015. Doing some back of the napkin calculations, we can estimate that there are a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year.

[DC Al Fine]

Or put another way. If a few dozen murderers getting executed each year is unjust, please spare a thought for the late term babies who have comitted no crime.

[scutosaurus]

cool

[OSR stands with Israel]

Only Casey, Manchin, and Jones voted for it. Absolutely disgusting and beyond hypocritical.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It's become a rule of thumb for me that when I see and editorialized thread title about abortion that it will always be hyperbolic. That actually goes for most anti-choice rhetoric.

[7,052,770]

The Guttmacher Institute found that

a) A majority of late term abortions are for reasons other than fetal defect or mother's life/health

b) Approximately 40% of women getting late term abortions cited "didn't know I was pregnant" as a major reason for getting a late term abortion.

The CDC says 1.3% of abortions are late term and that there  were about 640,000 abortions in 2015. Doing some back of the napkin calculations, we can estimate that there are a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year.

According to the link you (I think?) posted here recently, the "Guttmacher" (whoever that is, no idea if they're even credible) study concerned women who seek late term abortions, not those who get them. That's a huge difference and blows your whole argument away. Unless there's a medical reason, there isn't going to be a hospital that performs the late term abortion, no matter how badly the mothers want it.

I don't blame you BTW. As ExtremeRepublican says, to people who are strongly against legalized abortion, "the ends justify the means." Telling a little white lie or a throwing out a misleading stat is justifiable if abortion truly is the mass murder of millions of persons every year.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The Guttmacher Institute found that

a) A majority of late term abortions are for reasons other than fetal defect or mother's life/health

b) Approximately 40% of women getting late term abortions cited "didn't know I was pregnant" as a major reason for getting a late term abortion.

The CDC says 1.3% of abortions are late term and that there  were about 640,000 abortions in 2015. Doing some back of the napkin calculations, we can estimate that there are a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year.

According to the link you (I think?) posted here recently, the "Guttmacher" (whoever that is, no idea if they're even credible) study concerned women who seek late term abortions, not those who get them. That's a huge difference and blows your whole argument away. Unless there's a medical reason, there isn't going to be a hospital that performs the late term abortion, no matter how badly the mothers want it.

I don't blame you BTW. As ExtremeRepublican says, to people who are strongly against legalized abortion, "the ends justify the means." Telling a little white lie or a throwing out a misleading stat is justifiable if abortion truly is the mass murder of millions of persons every year.

Guttmacher is a pro-abortion institute that is IIRC affiliated with Planned Parenthood.

[DC Al Fine]

The Guttmacher Institute found that

a) A majority of late term abortions are for reasons other than fetal defect or mother's life/health

b) Approximately 40% of women getting late term abortions cited "didn't know I was pregnant" as a major reason for getting a late term abortion.

The CDC says 1.3% of abortions are late term and that there  were about 640,000 abortions in 2015. Doing some back of the napkin calculations, we can estimate that there are a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year.

According to the link you (I think?) posted here recently, the "Guttmacher" (whoever that is, no idea if they're even credible) study concerned women who seek late term abortions, not those who get them. That's a huge difference and blows your whole argument away. Unless there's a medical reason, there isn't going to be a hospital that performs the late term abortion, no matter how badly the mothers want it.

I don't blame you BTW. As ExtremeRepublican says, to people who are strongly against legalized abortion, "the ends justify the means." Telling a little white lie or a throwing out a misleading stat is justifiable if abortion truly is the mass murder of millions of persons every year.

Guttmacher is a pro-abortion institute that is IIRC affiliated with Planned Parenthood.

To add to what Carpetbagger said, the study I cited said the following about their subjects.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Harry's should spend a bit more time digging for the truth before lecturing me about it.

[7,052,770]

Harry's should spend a bit more time digging for the truth before lecturing me about it.

 
Whatever bro. Keep asserting that there are thousand "a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year" even though that's illegal in all 50 states and there aren't any hospitals that will perform them anyway. Your side is always sooo honest about these things. /s

[Nyvin]

The Guttmacher Institute found that

a) A majority of late term abortions are for reasons other than fetal defect or mother's life/health

b) Approximately 40% of women getting late term abortions cited "didn't know I was pregnant" as a major reason for getting a late term abortion.

The CDC says 1.3% of abortions are late term and that there  were about 640,000 abortions in 2015. Doing some back of the napkin calculations, we can estimate that there are a few thousand elective late term abortions of viable healthy babies in the USA per year.

According to the link you (I think?) posted here recently, the "Guttmacher" (whoever that is, no idea if they're even credible) study concerned women who seek late term abortions, not those who get them. That's a huge difference and blows your whole argument away. Unless there's a medical reason, there isn't going to be a hospital that performs the late term abortion, no matter how badly the mothers want it.

I don't blame you BTW. As ExtremeRepublican says, to people who are strongly against legalized abortion, "the ends justify the means." Telling a little white lie or a throwing out a misleading stat is justifiable if abortion truly is the mass murder of millions of persons every year.

If you want less abortions then eliminate abstinence only sex ed, give easier access to birth control, and support the financial stability of soon to be mothers with things like maternity leave, child care,  and affordable healthcare for both mother and child.

Making safe, professional (i.e legal) abortion providers more scarce is only going to force women into unsafe, untrained back alley "clinics" or worse yet, coat hangers.

We have abortion for a reason, if you just run around trying to treat the symptom instead of the cause you're probably only going to make the issue worse.   See a lot of Republican control states where they made abortion harder to access, and the abortion rate only increases.

[Illiniwek]

Only Casey, Manchin, and Jones voted for it. Absolutely disgusting and beyond hypocritical.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

/thread

^^^ This

Wow, abortion clinics are routinely denying care to babies who survive abortion?  And there's no way to change this without shutting them down?

It has a criminal penalty of 5 years for a vague set of circumstances like "immediately admitting and transporting the child to a hospital"  and "same degree of care/skill/diligence that would be given to any other child born alive"

It would leave abortion providers extremely vulnerable to lawsuits with severe criminal penalties.  

It's black and white that this bill has a simple aim to shutdown abortion providers.

Yes, admittedly if an attempted abortion results in a dead or severely injured newborn, the abortion provider could be open to prosecution or lawsuits.  If that worries abortion providers enough for them to close their doors, that says something.

This whole debate makes it very clear how impractical it is for birth to be the thing that grants a child rights, since things happen to a child before birth that can cause injury or death to them afterwards. So you have to choose, which is more important to protect, late-term abortion or the lives of born children.

What is the medical situation of the large majority of fetuses in the cases of late-term abortion?

I don’t know if you genuinely don’t know these are non-viable fetuses who are destined to die within a few hours of birth if they survive at all, or if you do and are being disingenuous.

I'm not sure what you're arguing.  If a newborn child dies as a result of an attempted abortion, is that acceptable to you, or not?  Is it better if the child dies before leaving the womb, or does it matter?

[Brittain33]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

/thread

^^^ This

Wow, abortion clinics are routinely denying care to babies who survive abortion?  And there's no way to change this without shutting them down?

It has a criminal penalty of 5 years for a vague set of circumstances like "immediately admitting and transporting the child to a hospital"  and "same degree of care/skill/diligence that would be given to any other child born alive"

It would leave abortion providers extremely vulnerable to lawsuits with severe criminal penalties.  

It's black and white that this bill has a simple aim to shutdown abortion providers.

Yes, admittedly if an attempted abortion results in a dead or severely injured newborn, the abortion provider could be open to prosecution or lawsuits.  If that worries abortion providers enough for them to close their doors, that says something.

This whole debate makes it very clear how impractical it is for birth to be the thing that grants a child rights, since things happen to a child before birth that can cause injury or death to them afterwards. So you have to choose, which is more important to protect, late-term abortion or the lives of born children.

What is the medical situation of the large majority of fetuses in the cases of late-term abortion?

I don’t know if you genuinely don’t know these are non-viable fetuses who are destined to die within a few hours of birth if they survive at all, or if you do and are being disingenuous.

I'm not sure what you're arguing.  If a newborn child dies as a result of an attempted abortion, is that acceptable to you, or not?  Is it better if the child dies before leaving the womb, or does it matter?

Do you agree that the child is non-viable and going to die shortly if carried to term?

[Badger]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

/thread

^^^ This

Wow, abortion clinics are routinely denying care to babies who survive abortion?  And there's no way to change this without shutting them down?

It has a criminal penalty of 5 years for a vague set of circumstances like "immediately admitting and transporting the child to a hospital"  and "same degree of care/skill/diligence that would be given to any other child born alive"

It would leave abortion providers extremely vulnerable to lawsuits with severe criminal penalties.   

It's black and white that this bill has a simple aim to shutdown abortion providers.

     *Plays the world's smallest violin*

"Libertarian"

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a bill to shutdown abortion clinics.

/thread

^^^ This

Wow, abortion clinics are routinely denying care to babies who survive abortion?  And there's no way to change this without shutting them down?

It has a criminal penalty of 5 years for a vague set of circumstances like "immediately admitting and transporting the child to a hospital"  and "same degree of care/skill/diligence that would be given to any other child born alive"

It would leave abortion providers extremely vulnerable to lawsuits with severe criminal penalties.   

It's black and white that this bill has a simple aim to shutdown abortion providers.

     *Plays the world's smallest violin*

"Libertarian"

Libertarians typically support laws against murder.