Attempts to Re-unite Europe

[Beet]

Over the 1500 years, many rulers have attempted to re-capture the glory of Rome by re-uniting Europe. In many ways it has been the ultimate prize of history, just as uniting the Middle East once was, until the Persians accomplished this. However, nobody really succeeded. Who came closest to being 'heirs of Rome'? I think the Germans did, they would have won their war if Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor; Charlemagne came close but his empire could not withstand barbarian attacks.

[Brambila]

I picked the EU, but almost picked Hapsburgs.

The EU is currently uniting Europe economically- that's the first big step to national reunification.

I would also say that the Hapsburgs came close. They had several times where they could have unified Europe. I believe that had the Hapsburgs been successful in the war of the spanish succession, they could have united with not only Spain, but also France. If that happened, The Franco-Austro-Spaniard-Hungarian Empire would have been very successful in unifying western Europe, except for the UK.

[Lunar]

Nazi Germany I suppose.  They reduced Europe into either direct conquests or sattelite states.  From the Volga to the Upper Baltic to the Eastern Seaboard to Crete and North Africa.  If a few minor things had changed, such as the tactics in the Battle of England and on the Eastern Front, they would have been completely successful.  No one else would require so little to change in order to completely annex or unite Europe.

The parts of Europe that weren't under the Nazi fist:
Western Turkey
Sweden
Spain
Ireland
Portugal
England
Maybe a small fraction of Russia that is considered part of Europe that wasn't conquered

The parts that were:
France
Netherlands
Belgium
Norway
Denmark
Germany
Austria
Czech
Slovakia
Yugoslavia
Italy
Greece
Romania
Hungary
Bulgaria
Poland
Finland
Ukraine
Belarus
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Western Russia

Did anyone else really conquer that much with a solid chance of being able to hold it?

[Brambila]

Spain was indirectly in the hands of the Nazis.

The thing about the EU when compared to all the other attemtps to unify Europe is that the EU is voted on, and is popular. Like Nazi Germany, Europeans have CHOSEN the economic union. But unlike Nazi Germany, it's all of Europe that's chosen the union, not just Germany.

[Lunar]

I suppose we're answering different questions then.

Spain was a friendly government but only a handful of Spanish troops ("volunteers") fought for the Germans, to Hitler's dismay.

[??????????]

I gotta keep it in the family, as they say, and vote for the Hapsburgs.

[Middle-aged Europe]

EU

Simple reason: All the other attempts failed, while the EU is still in existence.

[Gustaf]

I say Nazi Germany, since they were the ones who really establised the idea of Europe and created the European identity. Nazis such as Spaak were also involved in the creation of the EEC (a name that the Nazis created). The EU might get further than any of the others, but they're fra from there. Yet.

[JohnFKennedy]

I say Nazi Germany, since they were the ones who really establised the idea of Europe and created the European identity. Nazis such as Spaak were also involved in the creation of the EEC (a name that the Nazis created). The EU might get further than any of the others, but they're fra from there. Yet.

EEC is what the EU was known as in the beginning, grew into the EU.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I say Nazi Germany, since they were the ones who really establised the idea of Europe and created the European identity.

LOL, are you kidding?

The only "idea of Europe" the Nazis had was a Europe conquered and ruled by the German master race. Everything else was just propaganda to fool the others. The Nazis had as much "European identity" as they valued democracy.

That´s the other reason why most of the attempts to "re-unite" Europe failed... they all tried to do this by armed force. But it simply doesn´t work that way.

[Brambila]

The problem with Nazi germany is that they didn't really unite Europe, they just forced Europe to be united. The Europeans didn't want it. To have true unity, the idea of European unity has to be popular.

[Gustaf]

I say Nazi Germany, since they were the ones who really establised the idea of Europe and created the European identity.

LOL, are you kidding?

The only "idea of Europe" the Nazis had was a Europe conquered and ruled by the German master race. Everything else was just propaganda to fool the others. The Nazis had as much "European identity" as they valued democracy.

That´s the other reason why most of the attempts to "re-unite" Europe failed... they all tried to do this by armed force. But it simply doesn´t work that way.

Might be right. Fact remains, if it hadn't been for the Nazis we wouldn't have the EU today...even if the reasoning might vary, lol.

[??????????]

I believe the Nazis are still alive and well and just have evolved into another shell and are involved heavily in the EU and UN.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Might be right. Fact remains, if it hadn't been for the Nazis we wouldn't have the EU today...even if the reasoning might vary, lol.

Well... without the Nazis there would probably no UN either.

Doesn´t mean that the UN was founded by the Nazis or that the Nazis would be very fond of the UN.

[Lunar]

I still say the Nazis are the best answer to the poll question.

Which came closest to success?

Since it doesn't have to be voluntary, and the Nazis are listed as an answer, we must let them be a possible answer.  "But they were baaaad."  That doesn't matter.

Think about how a little change here and there there would have to be to lead to the Germans being in London and Moscow.  How would the US be able to nuke any big cities with the nearest air  base being in Iceland?

[??????????]

Napoleon came very close to uniting Europe.

[Lunar]

Napoleon would also be a decent choice.  What would he have been forced to do to be able to hold onto what he conquered assuming he managed to get a Russian surrender?

Also, the Nazis get a leg up on the French since they could have conquered England if things had flipped their way while that was out of reach for our French dictator here.

[Gustaf]

I believe the Nazis are still alive and well and just have evolved into another shell and are involved heavily in the EU and UN.

Heh...even I don't think that...there is no prominent Nazi groups left in Europe. However, the Nazi view on European entity has certainly gained ground. As has their anti-Americanism.

[??????????]

Well if not Nazis I would certainly say nazi beliefs still thrive in Europe.

[Gustaf]

Well if not Nazis I would certainly say nazi beliefs still thrive in Europe.

The rethoric of the Nazis on the future of Europe and the world is very similar to that of modern pro-EU groups. But luckily, the violence, disrespect for human life and anti-semitism that were more prominent trade marks of national socialism are pretty much gone from Europe today.

[??????????]

Well if not Nazis I would certainly say nazi beliefs still thrive in Europe.

The rethoric of the Nazis on the future of Europe and the world is very similar to that of modern pro-EU groups. But luckily, the violence, disrespect for human life and anti-semitism that were more prominent trade marks of national socialism are pretty much gone from Europe today.

Europe not anti-semetic? Maybe not in Sweden.

[Brambila]

Europe is EXTREMELY anti-semitic. France especially. The tolerant countries are generally slavic and scandinavian. Other than those, anti-semitism is very common in Europe. When I went to France I saw on the newspaper Jewish gravestones with graffiti of swatstikas and 'VOTE FOR LE PEN' statements.

[Gustaf]

Europe is EXTREMELY anti-semitic. France especially. The tolerant countries are generally slavic and scandinavian. Other than those, anti-semitism is very common in Europe. When I went to France I saw on the newspaper Jewish gravestones with graffiti of swatstikas and 'VOTE FOR LE PEN' statements.

Yes, there are a few fringe groups. Most anti-semitism in Europe comes from Muslim immigrants. I maintain that anti-semitism does not exist in Europe in the true sense  of the word

Just like poligamy does not exist in Utah, even though it still exists to a very small degree, etc. You can't judge a whole continent after a few extremists.

[Brambila]

nonono, Gustaf, you don't understand. In addition to the muslim racism, there is also French racism towards jews. It's just like that.

Of course, people are going to argue that that is the French "culture".

[Gustaf]

nonono, Gustaf, you don't understand. In addition to the muslim racism, there is also French racism towards jews. It's just like that.

Of course, people are going to argue that that is the French "culture".

There sure is, but it's not very prominent.