11 year old in Argentina gives birth to rapists child.

[afleitch]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/28/girl-11-gives-birth-to-rapists-child-after-argentina-refuses-abortion.

'Lucía told the psychologist at the hospital to which she was admitted after two suicide attempts: “I want you to remove what the old man put inside me.'

The Church of course was calm and measured in it's response;

'Tucumán’s archbishop, Carlos Sánchez, recorded a message on Wednesday revealing Lucía’s real name and calling on Christians to “defend all human life."

The current law is a stunning success;

'An average of one abortion is performed every 90 seconds in Argentina, with as many as 450,000 unsafe illegal abortions carried out every year, according to estimates.'

[Ban my account ffs!]

She’d better not kill herself!  Eternal conscious burning and blistering and melting and agonizing torment!  God has no room for the little wretches that don’t complete their life sentences.  Because he loves you.

Such a wonderful church and religion!  As if they have even the teensiest speck of moral authority.

[alancia]

Its all really unfortunate. All we can do now is give aid for the girl and baby, and a swift and deserving punishment for the rapist that did this.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

She should have been allowed to get an abortion in this case.

[Gass3268]

Horrific, but this is the future that Republicans want.

[Green Line]

Great.  Glad the baby was not punished because of the father.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Great.  Glad the baby was not punished because of the father.

So easy to say for someone who, due to strictly biological factors, has zero chance to get impregnated by a rapist.

[DavidB.]

Yeah, this is why people are turning their back on the church - doxxing her, seriously? And this is the kind of case in which abortion seems justified to me. She's 11. She could have died giving birth.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yeah, this is why people are turning their back on the church - doxxing her, seriously? And this is the kind of case in which abortion seems justified to me. She's 11. She could have died giving birth.

Yes, if it not for any other reason, a grave danger to her own life should be enough.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Great.  Glad the baby was not punished because of the father.

You didn't bother reading the article did you?

Because she's 11 (ELEVEN), she had to undergo a c-section at 23 weeks.  The baby wont survive.

Basically the "pro-life" people used her as a pawn for their purposes. 

Now the same people will pour all their wrath and anger onto the rapist to justify their torture of the little girl.

There is definitely many more than one monster in this case.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I wasn't originally going to post in this thread because the story makes me sick to my stomach on just about every level, but David said pretty much what I was thinking.

[Sestak]

They doxxed her? An eleven year old rape victim? What the actual f[inks]?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Its all really unfortunate.

Even though it's still early, I think we just found our winner for Understatement of the Year.

[Sir Mohamed]

Terrible things like that happen.

Imagine you're 14 and your mother is 25, or you're 20 and she's 31. Kind of crazy just to think about this.

[afleitch]

As was pointed out, the legal position is in many ways the default 'catholic' position when some pro-life people talk about where they would like America to be, realistically, at some point in the future. And it's clearly a sh-tshow. An 'out of sight out of mind' conclusion.

But what angers me is that when we talk about 'health', it's mental health too. We can't pretend it is of little to no consequence because that's pretty much contrary to our understanding of the interconnectedness of health.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Great.  Glad the baby was not punished because of the father.

You didn't bother reading the article did you?

Because she's 11 (ELEVEN), she had to undergo a c-section at 23 weeks.  The baby wont survive.

Basically the "pro-life" people used her as a pawn for their purposes.  

Now the same people will pour all their wrath and anger onto the rapist to justify their torture of the little girl.

There is definitely many more than one monster in this case.

Some people are unconcerned about the fact baby won't even survive and that she might've died in labor, after weeks of torture, as long as there was no abortion performed. Principled defense of life and so on.

Talking about "baby not being punished because of the father", but what about punishing the rape victim by given her a possible death sentence, not to mention a terrible ordeal?

I disagree with the people who are against so-called "abortion on demand", while understanding there are special cases such as that, but people who are cruelly blind and inflexible I just can't stand.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Horrific, but this is the future that Republicans want.

Its all really unfortunate.

Even though it's still early, I think we just found our winner for Understatement of the Year.

[dead0man]

Carlos Sánchez is a monster

[Cashew]

Carlos Sánchez is a monster

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

An 'out of sight out of mind' conclusion.

This is exactly what I've lost patience with about the politically-organized pro-life movement (this and the habit of lying and catastrophizing about pro-choicers' motivations). It's like this old Simpsons clip writ large.

[afleitch]

An 'out of sight out of mind' conclusion.

This is exactly what I've lost patience with about the politically-organized pro-life movement (this and the habit of lying and catastrophizing about pro-choicers' motivations). It's like this old Simpsons clip writ large.

I know this is a sensitive subject so I do want to tread carefully, but I can see why it's frustrating.

For me the pro-life movement is a 'pursuit' in want of a goal. However as long as women can fall pregnant and for pregnancy to have complications of any sort internal or external, it is not possible to be 'pro-life' to a definite, 'in all scenarios' conclusion. You can't stop rape, you can't make bodies physically 'ready' when they aren't developed. You can't change the nature of sex to nothing more than procreation to only when a child is required. You can't make people take on unwanted children. You could try, but in doing so and upending and patrolling human social-sexual interactions would be sinister.

You can only advocate for it at a personal one to one level and to be fair those who do (and it's been some time, so I don't know what your position is) tend to be disengaged from any mass pro-life movement, not necessarily just because it's politicised but because the movement doesn't have a workable goal. If the end goal is Argentina, where the above article happens and back street abortions still happen at comparable rates to legal abortions in most countries and perhaps even more so, or El Salvador where mothers are jailed and miscarriages are treated with suspicion, then we have as strange a dystopia (and one seemingly imbued with 'vengeance') as any 'pro-choice' free-for-all-fill-your-boots dystopia that a pro-lifer might think we reside in.

My own position has shifted a little in that I think it's only possible to entertain both positions at once, that the 'choice' is entrusted to the mother as to how she views what she carries and isn't determined by a nihilistic philosophical and scientific drive to define 'life' at a determinate start point for each and every one of us at the same point (in part because I hold the same position when it comes to end of life choices) so that a mother should be supported in her choice to consider what she holds 'life' from the earliest possible moment, even if she herself can not look after the child or not, and seek a termination if that is how she perceives it. Which I accept is clearly still 'pro-choice' but less rooted in HARD SCIENCE which I think both sides are too eager to invoke.

[Green Line]

Great.  Glad the baby was not punished because of the father.

You didn't bother reading the article did you?

Because she's 11 (ELEVEN), she had to undergo a c-section at 23 weeks.  The baby wont survive.

Basically the "pro-life" people used her as a pawn for their purposes. 

Now the same people will pour all their wrath and anger onto the rapist to justify their torture of the little girl.

There is definitely many more than one monster in this case.

All I am saying, I say out of love.  Its a tough call.  I hope everyone survives.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You can only advocate for it at a personal one to one level and to be fair those who do (and it's been some time, so I don't know what your position is) tend to be disengaged from any mass pro-life movement, not necessarily just because it's politicised but because the movement doesn't have a workable goal.

This is pretty much exactly what my position is at this point. I retained some hope for political action against abortion as such until quite recently, but when the pro-life press resorted to outright lies about the content of the new abortion law in New York, a state with whose politics I'm quite familiar and in whose politics I'm quite invested, I decided I'd just had it. (Two of my closest friends are New York Democrats, one of them staunchly pro-choice; no matter how strong my philosophical disagreements with this friend, seeing New York Democrats characterized as evil demon monsters who wanted to see babies die didn't exactly endear me to my pro-life conspecifics.)

Which I accept is clearly still 'pro-choice' but less rooted in HARD SCIENCE which I think both sides are too eager to invoke.

Absolutely no argument there.

[Mr. Smith]

She should have been allowed to get an abortion in this case.

[TDAS04]

Disgusting, but not surprising.