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  SENATE RESOLUTION: Expulsion Vote Length... (Passed)
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Author Topic: SENATE RESOLUTION: Expulsion Vote Length... (Passed)  (Read 417 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: March 09, 2019, 08:37:21 pm »
« edited: March 26, 2019, 03:06:03 pm by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

Quote
SENATE RESOLUTION
To fix the minimum vote length for expulsion votes

Be it Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Quote
Expulsion Vote Length Senate Rules Amendment

Article 7, Clause 5 of the Senate Rules is amended as follows:
Quote
5.) The President Pro Tempore shall open a thread and commence the debates. Debates shall last at least for 72 hours. After the debates have elapsed, the President Pro Tempore shall open a vote, which shall last for 3 days, or until enough votes have been cast to pass or reject expulsion. In order to expel the Senator, a two-third majority of the sitting Senators is needed.

People's Regional Senate
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Senate Designation: SR 9015
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Vern
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2019, 08:39:03 pm »

I support this
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2019, 08:40:07 pm »

The sponsor shall have 24 hours to commence an advocacy and all other members will have the remaining 48 hours of the initial debate period to post their initial comments, questions and concerns.

Failure to post will result in penalties and don't think statutes banning torture will protect you.
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Pericles
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 08:40:34 pm »

One concern I'd have is that people may change their minds in the 72 hours or indeed new circumstances may arise to swing them so there may be a cost in terms of deliberation. Also maybe this should also try and ensure every Senator gets to vote on it so that people get to see their Senators take an on the record stance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I feel I should share these concerns with the Senate.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 08:41:28 pm »

This resolution addresses a problem that was discovered when I went to close the vote on the Lechasseur expulsion motion and I found that I could not do so, on the account of the fact that the rules mandate a 72 hour vote minimum. Changing it in this fashion would have allowed for me to have closed it as soon as 4 ayes or 3 nays had been obtained.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 08:42:29 pm »

One concern I'd have is that people may change their minds in the 72 hours or indeed new circumstances may arise to swing them so there may be a cost in terms of deliberation. Also maybe this should also try and ensure every Senator gets to vote on it so that people get to see their Senators take an on the record stance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I feel I should share these concerns with the Senate.

How about doing a motion to allow for the early closing of the vote, giving 24 hours for vote changes like we do on legislation.

I would point out back in day final votes could last SEVEN DAYS And amendment votes FIVE, until this was cut to FIVE and THREE respectively, so early closing of votes was rather crucial. 
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Sentor MAINEiac4434 of Lincoln
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 09:30:15 pm »

One concern I'd have is that people may change their minds in the 72 hours or indeed new circumstances may arise to swing them so there may be a cost in terms of deliberation. Also maybe this should also try and ensure every Senator gets to vote on it so that people get to see their Senators take an on the record stance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I feel I should share these concerns with the Senate.
On the first point, maybe if we extend the debate to a mandatory one-week debate? Or would that be too long?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 10:14:33 pm »
« Edited: March 11, 2019, 01:06:56 am by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

One concern I'd have is that people may change their minds in the 72 hours or indeed new circumstances may arise to swing them so there may be a cost in terms of deliberation. Also maybe this should also try and ensure every Senator gets to vote on it so that people get to see their Senators take an on the record stance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I feel I should share these concerns with the Senate.
On the first point, maybe if we extend the debate to a mandatory one-week debate? Or would that be too long?

As a mandatory minimum yes too long. Right now the mandatory minimum is 72 hours, but it can be extended by "keeping debate continuous" and objecting to a final vote motion. At that point cloture requires the same number of votes as passage of the expulsion itself, 2/3rds.

Continuous debate requires posting to have not ceased for longer than 24 hours.

In terms of general legislation, nobody takes the time to do a really sinister filibuster anymore, its a lost art.
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tack50
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 07:16:39 am »

I would prefer to change it to all senators except the one being expelled have voted.
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2019, 07:20:52 am »

I would prefer to change it to all senators except the one being expelled have voted.

But what if we have 2 simultaneous expulsion votes?
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tack50
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2019, 01:36:46 pm »

I would prefer to change it to all senators except the one being expelled have voted.

But what if we have 2 simultaneous expulsion votes?

Well, in that case I guess there could be 3 possibilities:

1: Restrict expulsion votes so only one can be in the floor at any given time

2: Simply not care about this and wait out the 72 hours in the unlikely case that we have to expel 2 senators at the same time

3: Allow for expulsions of 2 senators in the same resolution, and do it so it's over when the other 4 senators have voted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 01:08:57 am »

I am not fond of the idea of doing two in one resolution. Each one is its own case and should be considered separately in my opinion. What if one comes back and the vote fails because 3 Senators vote against expelling said returning member, but the other remains gone. The Senate likely would not get another chance before Activity Standards Amendment nails them.
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Senator ON Progressive
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 05:35:55 pm »

I would support this amendment, it's common sense to allow closing votes as soon as there's a big enough majority.
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tack50
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 05:39:22 pm »

I wonder if we could add a period for people to change their votes? Like doesn't the House at least give 24 hours once a bill has enough votes to pass? Maybe we could copy that system.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 06:01:16 pm »

I stand in support of this measure
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 05:28:55 am »

I wonder if we could add a period for people to change their votes? Like doesn't the House at least give 24 hours once a bill has enough votes to pass? Maybe we could copy that system.

If you have an amendment in this regards I wouldn't be hostile to it.
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tack50
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2019, 09:33:18 am »
« Edited: March 17, 2019, 01:32:09 pm by tack50 »

Borrowing from the House rules, I present the following ammendment

[Ammendment retired]

This will cut down voting times while still giving enough time for Senators to suddenly change their mind, or for a more absent fifth senator to vote.

I am open to reducing the waiting period to 12 hours or extending it to 24 hours (like the current House rules) if the sponsor feels it is appropiate.
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Vern
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2019, 04:38:51 pm »

I support Sen. Tacks50 amendment.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2019, 10:09:20 am »

I generally prefer to keep things uniform so as to avoid confusion and complexity, thus my preference would be 24 hours for vote changes.
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tack50
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2019, 01:28:42 pm »

Fair enough, then for consistency with the current House rules I retire the previous ammendment and offer this one instead

Quote
SENATE RESOLUTION
To fix the minimum vote length for expulsion votes

Be it Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Quote
Expulsion Vote Length Senate Rules Amendment

Article 7, Clause 5 of the Senate Rules is amended as follows:
Quote
5.) The President Pro Tempore shall open a thread and commence the debates. Debates shall last at least for 72 hours. After the debates have elapsed, the President Pro Tempore shall open a vote, which shall last for a maximum of 3 days. , or until enough votes have been cast to pass or reject expulsion.. When the articles of expulsion have enough votes to pass or fail, the President Pro Tempore shall announce that he or she will close the vote in 24 hours and that any Senator who wishes to change his or her vote must do so during that interval. In order to expel the Senator, a two-third majority of the sitting Senators is needed.

People's Regional Senate
Pending
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Vern
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 06:55:09 am »

This seems fair.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 05:42:52 pm »

Quote from: Amendment S17:06 by Tack50
SENATE RESOLUTION
To fix the minimum vote length for expulsion votes

Be it Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Quote
Expulsion Vote Length Senate Rules Amendment

Article 7, Clause 5 of the Senate Rules is amended as follows:
Quote
5.) The President Pro Tempore shall open a thread and commence the debates. Debates shall last at least for 72 hours. After the debates have elapsed, the President Pro Tempore shall open a vote, which shall last for a maximum of 3 days. , or until enough votes have been cast to pass or reject expulsion.. When the articles of expulsion have enough votes to pass or fail, the President Pro Tempore shall announce that he or she will close the vote in 24 hours and that any Senator who wishes to change his or her vote must do so during that interval. In order to expel the Senator, a two-third majority of the sitting Senators is needed.

People's Regional Senate
Pending

Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2019, 12:38:38 am »

The amendment is adopted.
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Vern
vern1988
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 09:35:13 am »

I motion for finial vote. This is as good as it is going to get.
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tack50
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2019, 06:25:19 pm »

I second the call for a final vote.
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