UK General Discussion: 2019 and onwards, The End of May

[brucejoel99]

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

Ahh yes, because never mind the economy & people's jobs & livelihoods, amirite? THEY MUST LEAVE!!       /s

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

They cannot be thrown out if they revoke article 50...the United Kingdom remaining in the EU is the best possible scenario for everyone involved

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

Ahh yes, because never mind the economy & people's jobs & livelihoods, amirite? THEY MUST LEAVE!!       /s

Look, I'm am a strong believer in the EU and I feel that Brexit was a terrible decision.

However, the UK's population did vote to LEAVE the EU and that must be obeyed. I know that there was a lot of misinformation spread in 2015 and 2016 about Brexit but that's just unfortunately a common occurrence in politics especially recently in the age of social media. Also, maybe David Cameron should have thought about that before he scheduled the referendum.

Additionally, both the UK government and UK parliament don't know what they want when it comes to Brexit. There's been just massive chaos and confusion for over the past 2 years and I'm tired of it. The UK MUST leave on April 12th and then deal with whatever the consequences follow.

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

[Omega21]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

Off topic question, can UK citizens still move to the EU (permanently) or has the cut off date passed?

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

Off topic question, can UK citizens still move to the EU (permanently) or has the cut off date passed?

We can at the moment without a work permit, but if we No Deal, that would end immediately. Under the (dead at present) Withdrawal Agreement, free movement would end at the end of 2020.

****
Also, we have no provision for a binding referendum in our system and David Cameron did promise to implement the result.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

I have numerous family members that live in London so that's false.

My sister, father, some of my aunts and uncles, etc live in the UK. They immigrated to the UK decades ago from Jamaica.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

However, the UK's population did vote to LEAVE the EU and that must be obeyed.

It was a non-binding advisory referendum...

I know that. However, the UK's parliament didn't view it as such and revoked Article 50 in 2017.

To revoke Article 50 would be undemocratic. Don't schedule a referendum on something so important if the general populace is not well informed or you don't have a clear plan of what happens next. That's what David Cameron should have done before he scheduled the referendum.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the anti-Brexit rally by Scottish expatriates I witnessed a couple of weeks ago at the Alexanderplatz. But here's an advertisement for a "Brexit special" at a Japanese karaoke joint in Berlin:

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

I have numerous family members that live in London so that's false.

My sister, father, some of my aunts and uncles, etc live in the UK. They immigrated to the UK decades ago from Jamaica.

I stand corrected. They will be affected, though. Why do you want a No Deal Brexit on 12 April with all the consequences that would entail for their lives?

[Blair]

Anyone claiming we must leave with no-deal is either a political charlatan who is doing it to prop up their own political ends whilst knowing it would be awful, or is seriously dim, and has never actually studied the Good Friday Agreement, or how reliant on imports the UK is, or how devastating it would be for the UK's manufacturing industry.

But sure keep sprouting pathetic meaningless slogans, whilst acknowledging that the entire referendum was a colossal cock up.

[Middle-aged Europe]

No-deal Brexit or Brexit cancellation.... from that point on, there would always be one side in British politics who would never forgive this and that's a reality British society will have to face.

[CumbrianLefty]

Thing is, there was a big majority for some sort of "soft" Brexit in the immediate aftermath of June 2016. But then May waded in with her ridiculous "red lines" and the ERG brigade got giddy at the idea of no deal being a golden opportunity for US-style disaster capitalism.

They are the ones really to blame for the present impasse, not "remoaners".

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the anti-Brexit rally by Scottish expatriates I witnessed a couple of weeks ago at the Alexanderplatz. But here's an advertisement for a "Brexit special" at a Japanese karaoke joint in Berlin:

If that's the best of British drag, I'd hate to see the worst.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the anti-Brexit rally by Scottish expatriates I witnessed a couple of weeks ago at the Alexanderplatz. But here's an advertisement for a "Brexit special" at a Japanese karaoke joint in Berlin:

If that's the best of British drag, I'd hate to see the worst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5p2XAGE8R8

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

I have numerous family members that live in London so that's false.

My sister, father, some of my aunts and uncles, etc live in the UK. They immigrated to the UK decades ago from Jamaica.

I stand corrected. They will be affected, though. Why do you want a No Deal Brexit on 12 April with all the consequences that would entail for their lives?

It's not what I want but since the UK's government & parliament is such a mess and the EU is not playing any games then at this moment it's the most likely option.

[brucejoel99]

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

They cannot be thrown out if they revoke article 50...the United Kingdom remaining in the EU is the best possible scenario for everyone involved

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

Ahh yes, because never mind the economy & people's jobs & livelihoods, amirite? THEY MUST LEAVE!!       /s

Look, I'm am a strong believer in the EU and I feel that Brexit was a terrible decision.

However, the UK's population did vote to LEAVE the EU and that must be obeyed. I know that there was a lot of misinformation spread in 2015 and 2016 about Brexit but that's just unfortunately a common occurrence in politics especially recently in the age of social media. Also, maybe David Cameron should have thought about that before he scheduled the referendum.

Additionally, both the UK government and UK parliament don't know what they want when it comes to Brexit. There's been just massive chaos and confusion for over the past 2 years and I'm tired of it. The UK MUST leave on April 12th and then deal with whatever the consequences follow.

You're completely disregarding the fact that no deal was never seriously discussed in the referendum, so how can you claim that leaving in two weeks with no deal is the "democratic" outcome?

Seriously, people were told during the referendum campaign that getting a deal would be easy & that the UK would hold all the cards. Options like Norway & Switzerland were thrown around as the viable options by leavers. No one thought that leaving without a deal was a realistic prospect.

However, according to the ardent Brexiteers (& you, evidently), the UK apparently voted to leave come what may, meaning that, deal or no deal, leaving is the only "democratic" outcome.

Now, revoking Article 50 wouldn't be democratic, but neither is leaving without any deal at all. So why insist that no deal on April 12th is the only democratic outcome? Seriously... why?

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

They cannot be thrown out if they revoke article 50...the United Kingdom remaining in the EU is the best possible scenario for everyone involved

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

Ahh yes, because never mind the economy & people's jobs & livelihoods, amirite? THEY MUST LEAVE!!       /s

Look, I'm am a strong believer in the EU and I feel that Brexit was a terrible decision.

However, the UK's population did vote to LEAVE the EU and that must be obeyed. I know that there was a lot of misinformation spread in 2015 and 2016 about Brexit but that's just unfortunately a common occurrence in politics especially recently in the age of social media. Also, maybe David Cameron should have thought about that before he scheduled the referendum.

Additionally, both the UK government and UK parliament don't know what they want when it comes to Brexit. There's been just massive chaos and confusion for over the past 2 years and I'm tired of it. The UK MUST leave on April 12th and then deal with whatever the consequences follow.

You're completely disregarding the fact that no deal was never seriously discussed in the referendum, so how can you claim that leaving in two weeks with no deal is the "democratic" outcome?

Seriously, people were told during the referendum campaign that getting a deal would be easy & that the UK would hold all the cards. Options like Norway & Switzerland were thrown around as the viable options by leavers. No one thought that leaving without a deal was a realistic prospect.

However, according to the ardent Brexiteers (& you, evidently), the UK apparently voted to leave come what may, meaning that, deal or no deal, leaving is the only "democratic" outcome.

Now, revoking Article 50 wouldn't be democratic, but neither is leaving without any deal at all. So why insist that no deal on April 12th is the only democratic outcome? Seriously... why?

Well, then why won't the UK parliament agree to something? Didn't they have indicative votes a couple days ago and ALL of the alternatives were rejected?

Then what do you expect the EU to do? They already gave an extension and they are not going to extend it again if there is no clear plan in sight. The most likely option now is No Deal.

[CumbrianLefty]

I can assure you the EU doesn't want no deal either.

(even if they are prepared for it is necessary, almost certainly more so than the UK is)

[brucejoel99]

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

They cannot be thrown out if they revoke article 50...the United Kingdom remaining in the EU is the best possible scenario for everyone involved

Britain MUST leave the EU on April 12th. If they have have to be thrown out, then thats absolutely fine with me.

I'm tired of the UK, Brexit, the British government and parliament. JUST LEAVE!

Ahh yes, because never mind the economy & people's jobs & livelihoods, amirite? THEY MUST LEAVE!!       /s

Look, I'm am a strong believer in the EU and I feel that Brexit was a terrible decision.

However, the UK's population did vote to LEAVE the EU and that must be obeyed. I know that there was a lot of misinformation spread in 2015 and 2016 about Brexit but that's just unfortunately a common occurrence in politics especially recently in the age of social media. Also, maybe David Cameron should have thought about that before he scheduled the referendum.

Additionally, both the UK government and UK parliament don't know what they want when it comes to Brexit. There's been just massive chaos and confusion for over the past 2 years and I'm tired of it. The UK MUST leave on April 12th and then deal with whatever the consequences follow.

You're completely disregarding the fact that no deal was never seriously discussed in the referendum, so how can you claim that leaving in two weeks with no deal is the "democratic" outcome?

Seriously, people were told during the referendum campaign that getting a deal would be easy & that the UK would hold all the cards. Options like Norway & Switzerland were thrown around as the viable options by leavers. No one thought that leaving without a deal was a realistic prospect.

However, according to the ardent Brexiteers (& you, evidently), the UK apparently voted to leave come what may, meaning that, deal or no deal, leaving is the only "democratic" outcome.

Now, revoking Article 50 wouldn't be democratic, but neither is leaving without any deal at all. So why insist that no deal on April 12th is the only democratic outcome? Seriously... why?

Well, then why won't the UK parliament agree to something? Didn't they have indicative votes a couple days ago and ALL of the alternatives were rejected?

Then what do you expect the EU to do? They already gave an extension and they are not going to extend it again if there is no clear plan in sight. The most likely option now is No Deal.

May isn't going for no-deal, plain & simple. Yes, no-deal remains the default for April 12th, but it's not likely, especially since a new extension is agreeable with the EU.

Furthermore, Thursday's indicative votes weren't final. Stage 2 of the indicative votes (which was already set to happen after MV3 in the event of the latter's failure) is on Monday, & we should see some different numbers (& likely a winner too) this time around given that May's deal is now off the table.

Frankly, it's all in the hands of Labour & the SNP now. On Monday, they'll likely unite with the SNP to force May to add at least membership of the Customs Union to the WA, which the EU have implied they will accept.

Regardless, if there's a clear result, then May has to choose whether to accept the consensus plan (she has implied that she could but sounded very skeptical about it). If she does, then the plan is implemented & there's a possible further extension through May 22nd (which the EU have implied they will accept) to allow Parliament to pass the required/necessary Brexit legislation.

However, if there isn't a clear result (or if May chooses to not accept the consensus plan, perhaps even after a proposed runoff between May's deal & the most popular indicative option), it also sounded as if May thinks a long Article 50 extension tied to a general election is a more realistic option than an Article 50 extension tied to a potential indicative votes consensus plan.

Just remember: the mechanism to implement the referendum result has always been the votes of Parliament. There's no other way. That's how it works. That's literally the way a representative democracy such as the UK functions. Parliament voted against no deal. If Parliament doesn't like May's deal as it has been arranged (which they obviously don't), then a new deal should be pursued (as it appears Parliament will finally start to ensure happens on Monday with more indicative votes); if they can agree on a path, then that's what'll happen. If there's still not a majority, then you're right: Parliament has failed; the process will have stalled, & the only alternative will be to have the public vote on a path (as May has implied).

[parochial boy]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

I have numerous family members that live in London so that's false.

My sister, father, some of my aunts and uncles, etc live in the UK. They immigrated to the UK decades ago from Jamaica.

I stand corrected. They will be affected, though. Why do you want a No Deal Brexit on 12 April with all the consequences that would entail for their lives?

uhh yes, this is important. I'm a British citizen but thank god i also live abroad and have dual nationailty - but my cousin is British and nothing else, and her mother it Slovenian and nothing else and it's f**king terrifying and f**king hearbraking to see a 6 year old girl panicking becuase she thinks it's about to be illegal to live wither own mother. Like, this isn't a game, and I've spent the last three years getting more emotional than I should about what is going on in a country I am only tenously linked to precisely because some entitled etonian cünt's ideological game is having such a dramatic impact on the lives of people who never asked to be who they were, or where they are from.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Why are people talking about no deal as if it's a realistic possibility?

The government doesn't want it.
The government hasn't planned for it.
The government has deliberately refused to bring forward legislation necessary for no deal to happen under UK law.
Parliament doesn't want no deal, and has ruled it out multiple times.
And even if the government were somehow hijacked by no dealers in the next couple of weeks (impossible), and we were faced with crashing out tomorrow, parliament would vote to revoke Article 50.
Shouting BRITS OUT LEAVE MEANS LEAVE is just dumb.

[CumbrianLefty]

As pointed out many times before, no deal is the "default" option when we leave in the absence of any agreement (and that remains so even if the date has been pushed back a few weeks)

Yes, most people don't want it. But as long as the above remains the case, the possibility of going into it "by accident" remains. So the coming week is going to be a pretty pivotal one.

[Silent Hunter]

It's been pushed back only to 12 April, unless we present a clear way forward to the European Council, which is having an emergency summit on 10 April.

[CumbrianLefty]

Not the name I'd have used...

That means there's the real possibility that Labour will be the only parliamentary without a female leader, depending on how long May holds out for.

Which merely shows how meaningless such a "stat" would be.

Labour would still have the most female MPs by a long way, and probably the most women in senior roles compared to all the other parties. What matters more, strength in depth or the figurehead at the top?? And that's even without considering what Labour might do for women if in government.

It would be nice btw if Labour "moderates" stopped playing identity politics blackmail over this. We aren't going to support somebody as leader *just* because they are female (or indeed non-white) We will gladly do so if such a candidate offers things that the membership actually want.

[Blair]

Fwiw it’s hard to argue that the Labour Party, nor the party membership doesn’t have some sort of inbuild problem with electing a female leader considering that in the 2015 selection you had a hard left man, a soft left man and an old right man beat female candidates from the left, soft left and right of the party.

And ofc it’s not as if any faction has a monopoly on purity- Brown treated Harriet Harman awfully, and his staff were hideously blokely, but equally there’s a reason why McDonell and co talk up Rebecca Long Bailey, Pidock and others as the next leader- because everyone knows it’s going to most likely be a female leader next.