Hamas surpresses dissidents over failing economy

[PSOL]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/hamas-violently-suppresses-gaza-economic-israeli-border-protests

Hamas appears to have forcibly suppressed a rare uptick in public dissent in Gaza, beating and arresting scores of people over the past week who have been demonstrating against price rises and dire living conditions across the strip.

A group of activists and civil society figures calling itself “We want to live” had planned a general strike on Thursday, but after attacks by riot police since last week it was not clear whether the strike would go ahead.

...

Hamas has backed a year-long protest movement along the frontier with Israel but has not shown similar approval for internal criticism. Over several days during the past week, Palestinians have gathered in multiple locations to rally. They have made clear their demands are economic and not an attempt to overthrow their leaders.

Videos posted online showed officers clubbing unarmed protesters and firing live rounds into the air. Amnesty International said hundreds of people, including journalists attempting to document the rallies, had been subjected to arbitrary arrest and torture.

Instead of listening to the people’s needs, Hamas ignores their plight just like Mohammed Morsi did or what recent protesters in Mashad, Iran went against with the Islamic regime there. Good riddance if they are quickly deposed, that will let a more competent force take over.

[Indy Texas]

I mean, yeah, but I'm also not sure how you create a non-failing economy in Gaza.

Israel regularly blocks the flow of goods and services in and out of the territory.

The population has low education levels.

There are no natural resources to speak of.

Resource-poor coastal city-states don't succeed unless you can get a ton of capital to flow in and effectively keep poor people out.

[dead0man]

There were more riots today.  Hopefully this leads to the end of Hamas, but there will be a lot of blood shed to get there.  Those bastards will continue to murder a lot of good people to stay in power, and even if/when they do get kicked out, the slime that survives will just move on to another sh**t group trying to ruin the lives of Gazans for bigoted reasons.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I mean, yeah, but I'm also not sure how you create a non-failing economy in Gaza.

Israel regularly blocks the flow of goods and services in and out of the territory.

I'm hardly one of Israel's biggest fans, but considering what Hamas chooses to do with what does get thru, it makes total sense for Israel to restrict the flow and inspect it extremely carefully. From a practical point of view, if Hamas, or any other Palestinian group wants to advance the Palestinian cause it needs to abandon the idea they can achieve victory by tearing Israel down. Palestine needs to build itself up and it can't do that by engaging in armed struggle right now.

[Indy Texas]

I mean, yeah, but I'm also not sure how you create a non-failing economy in Gaza.

Israel regularly blocks the flow of goods and services in and out of the territory.

I'm hardly one of Israel's biggest fans, but considering what Hamas chooses to do with what does get thru, it makes total sense for Israel to restrict the flow and inspect it extremely carefully. From a practical point of view, if Hamas, or any other Palestinian group wants to advance the Palestinian cause it needs to abandon the idea they can achieve victory by tearing Israel down. Palestine needs to build itself up and it can't do that by engaging in armed struggle right now.

Hamas is the best thing that ever happened to the Israeli Right and they know it.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said.

***

The prime minister also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza

It's no different than Bashar Assad's strategy of poisoning opposition to him by opportunistically letting Islamist clerics out of prison to start trouble while executing or deporting any non-insane political dissidents. The goal is to ensure there is no alternative to the status quo.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That doesn't mean that what is good for the Israeli Right is what is good for Israel, nor does it mean that the Palestinians should continue to be such shmucks that they keep repeating a "strategy" that has repeatedly failed to achieve Palestinian independence.

[dead0man]

link-Iran International

A high-ranking Hamas official who wanted to remain anonymous has announced that Iran ordered the rocket attack on a region in North of Tel-Aviv.

He said Iran ordered a team from “Islamic Jihad” to lead the attacks from Gaza.

According to Jerusalem Post, high-ranking Egypt and Gaza officials confirmed that Iran had ordered the attack but added that Hamas leaders were informed about the rocket attacks.

After the Hamas rocket attack on Israel which left 7 injured, on Monday, Israeli army’s planes, helicopters, and tanks attacked dozens of Hamas positions in Gaza.

In these attacks, several Hamas buildings were targeted, including the office of Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the political branch of Hamas.

[PSOL]

link-Iran International

A high-ranking Hamas official who wanted to remain anonymous has announced that Iran ordered the rocket attack on a region in North of Tel-Aviv.

He said Iran ordered a team from “Islamic Jihad” to lead the attacks from Gaza.

According to Jerusalem Post, high-ranking Egypt and Gaza officials confirmed that Iran had ordered the attack but added that Hamas leaders were informed about the rocket attacks.

After the Hamas rocket attack on Israel which left 7 injured, on Monday, Israeli army’s planes, helicopters, and tanks attacked dozens of Hamas positions in Gaza.

In these attacks, several Hamas buildings were targeted, including the office of Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the political branch of Hamas.

This isn’t a general discussion thread.

[dead0man]

link-Iran International

A high-ranking Hamas official who wanted to remain anonymous has announced that Iran ordered the rocket attack on a region in North of Tel-Aviv.

He said Iran ordered a team from “Islamic Jihad” to lead the attacks from Gaza.

According to Jerusalem Post, high-ranking Egypt and Gaza officials confirmed that Iran had ordered the attack but added that Hamas leaders were informed about the rocket attacks.

After the Hamas rocket attack on Israel which left 7 injured, on Monday, Israeli army’s planes, helicopters, and tanks attacked dozens of Hamas positions in Gaza.

In these attacks, several Hamas buildings were targeted, including the office of Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the political branch of Hamas.

This isn’t a general discussion thread.

ok Jr Mod, it is now   link

After another tense night in southern Israel, reports Wednesday said that Hamas had rejected Israeli conditions for a ceasefire. Egyptian negotiators had been trying to hammer out a deal between Israel and Hamas to end the current round of tension – but a report in the London-based a-Sharq al-Awsat newspaper Wednesday said that Hamas had rejected Israel’s demand that riots along the Gaza border be halted.

Instead, Hamas has proposed “quiet for quiet” – for Israel to stop its attacks on Gaza, with Hamas halting its rocket fire on southern Israel. Hamas rejected demands that the riots – which the terror group terms “the march of return” – be halted, and neither was it willing to halt the balloon terror attacks that have plagued the south for the past year.

Israel is especially interested in preventing riots this weekend, which Hamas is using to “celebrate” the one-year anniversary of the ongoing Friday riots. Hamas has called for mass riots in Gaza and in Yehudah and Shomron and Yerushalayim, and for merchants to close their stores and attend demonstrations. In a message to Hamas Tuesday, Israel said that it was “very close” to a military campaign in Gaza, and that it would no longer accept riots on the border fence. Yediot Acharonot quoted a top security official as saying that “the campaign could break out at any moment.”

IDF planes Tuesday night hit additional Hamas targets throughout Gaza. Hamas fired at least one rocket at southern Israel, but it was intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system. In a statement, the IDF said that “Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza. The IDF is determined to carry out its mission of defending Israelis, and it is prepared for any scenario.”

[PSOL]

link-Iran International

A high-ranking Hamas official who wanted to remain anonymous has announced that Iran ordered the rocket attack on a region in North of Tel-Aviv.

He said Iran ordered a team from “Islamic Jihad” to lead the attacks from Gaza.

According to Jerusalem Post, high-ranking Egypt and Gaza officials confirmed that Iran had ordered the attack but added that Hamas leaders were informed about the rocket attacks.

After the Hamas rocket attack on Israel which left 7 injured, on Monday, Israeli army’s planes, helicopters, and tanks attacked dozens of Hamas positions in Gaza.

In these attacks, several Hamas buildings were targeted, including the office of Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the political branch of Hamas.

This isn’t a general discussion thread.

ok Jr Mod, it is now   link

After another tense night in southern Israel, reports Wednesday said that Hamas had rejected Israeli conditions for a ceasefire. Egyptian negotiators had been trying to hammer out a deal between Israel and Hamas to end the current round of tension – but a report in the London-based a-Sharq al-Awsat newspaper Wednesday said that Hamas had rejected Israel’s demand that riots along the Gaza border be halted.

Instead, Hamas has proposed “quiet for quiet” – for Israel to stop its attacks on Gaza, with Hamas halting its rocket fire on southern Israel. Hamas rejected demands that the riots – which the terror group terms “the march of return” – be halted, and neither was it willing to halt the balloon terror attacks that have plagued the south for the past year.

Israel is especially interested in preventing riots this weekend, which Hamas is using to “celebrate” the one-year anniversary of the ongoing Friday riots. Hamas has called for mass riots in Gaza and in Yehudah and Shomron and Yerushalayim, and for merchants to close their stores and attend demonstrations. In a message to Hamas Tuesday, Israel said that it was “very close” to a military campaign in Gaza, and that it would no longer accept riots on the border fence. Yediot Acharonot quoted a top security official as saying that “the campaign could break out at any moment.”

IDF planes Tuesday night hit additional Hamas targets throughout Gaza. Hamas fired at least one rocket at southern Israel, but it was intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system. In a statement, the IDF said that “Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza. The IDF is determined to carry out its mission of defending Israelis, and it is prepared for any scenario.”

Much better!👍🏼

[Velasco]

That doesn't mean that what is good for the Israeli Right is what is good for Israel, nor does it mean that the Palestinians should continue to be such shmucks that they keep repeating a "strategy" that has repeatedly failed to achieve Palestinian independence.

Gaza is a prison, the largest existing in the world. Hamas is the gang of thugs that keeps prisoners in line, either by softer or by harsher means. This group seems to be put there in order to prevent that Palestinians will be free some day. Hamas is a Gift from Heaven for some Israelis. It plays a key role in the prison system since it took over the control of the Strip. The best way to understand how this system works, in Gaza and in the West Bank, is reading a tale written by Franz Kafka: "In the Penal Colony"

[America Needs R'hllor]

Of course, the usual antisemites will be yammering on about how Hamas is an Israeli ally now so that it fits their "woke" worldview. BS. Hamas is a brutal terrorists organization targeting our innocents, including children, directly. No one in Israel likes them. Many far-left groups, however, are willing to accept Hamas as a lesser evil and even embrace them, for example Corbyn calling them "friends".

What this shows, in any case, is that Hamas doesn't care about Gaza's residents. When they get millions of dollars from gulf countries and other donors, they use them to make rockets or build tunnels to murder Israeli children, not for their people's welfare. And that's depressing. Only a peace process where both sides will seriously treat the other side's concerns- the Palestinian concern for sovereignity from one side, and Israel's very legitimate security concerns from the other- can give a lasting solution. Until then, and until moderate forces can take over there, Gaza will remain a nightmare for its people.

[Velasco]

Hamas is a very convenient tool to perpetuate the criminal prison system that condemns 2 million of people to live encircled in a depleted coastal strip. I think people like Corbyn is not particularly intelligent on what regards the gang of thugs. Even worse is the moral falsehood, the fake moderantism and the double standards of those still defending the criminal actions of the Israeli government. Denouncing those crimes is not anti-semitism, as well as those Jews who oppose the deplorable actions of the Israeli state are not traitors to their people (far from that, they are just among the nations). Please dignify yourselves and stop trying to deny the reality. You can't live forever on the negation. I'm sorry, but unless you accept some basic facts, your claims sound hollow. Do you really want peace? Start with little things. For instance, try to imagine your life in a hellhole like Gaza. Learn empathy and you have won the first round.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Hamas is a very convenient tool to perpetuate the criminal prison system that condemns 2 million of people to live encircled in a depleted coastal strip.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the falsehoods because we've already established we'll never agree, but just know that there's literally no reason for Israel to WANT to keep Gaza the humanitarian disaster and prison it is. So this is nothing but a kooky conspiracy theory. Face it- not everything is the fault of the Jewish Big Satan.

[parochial boy]

I mean, there doesn't have to be collusion for it to be the case that Netanyahu and Hamas both know that stirring up, or at least fuelling existing tension it a good way for both of them to whip up support at the right sorts of times. I mean, I don't doubt that both hate and genuinely want to destroy each other - but an increase in violence just a month out from a general election is certainly convenient...

Netanyahu support is bolstered out of fear of increased violence, and Hamas get some good international PR because Israel starts bombing the Gaza strip and then, oh look, the Israelis re-elect the government that is doing it

[PSOL]

I mean, there doesn't have to be collusion for it to be the case that Netanyahu and Hamas both know that stirring up, or at least fuelling existing tension it a good way for both of them to whip up support at the right sorts of times. I mean, I don't doubt that both hate and genuinely want to destroy each other - but an increase in violence just a month out from a general election is certainly convenient...

Netanyahu support is bolstered out of fear of increased violence, and Hamas get some good international PR because Israel starts bombing the Gaza strip and then, oh look, the Israelis re-elect the government that is doing it

This is true. At any rate, either Hamas starts satisfying the people or risk revolution. The question is, who in the Gaza Strip has the ability to govern Gaza? Fatah is a contender, but perhaps Gazans would want an absolutist government, leading to the likes of PFLP or even the Iranian proxy group PIJ.

[Velasco]

This is true. At any rate, either Hamas starts satisfying the people or risk revolution. The question is, who in the Gaza Strip has the ability to govern Gaza? Fatah is a contender, but perhaps Gazans would want an absolutist government, leading to the likes of PFLP or even the Iranian proxy group PIJ.

Gazans are prisoners and they want to be free. This is the only relevant question and not which group is able to take the control of the strip or takes advantage of the desperation of the world's largest prison inhabitants.  

Hamas is a very convenient tool to perpetuate the criminal prison system that condemns 2 million of people to live encircled in a depleted coastal strip.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the falsehoods because we've already established we'll never agree, but just know that there's literally no reason for Israel to WANT to keep Gaza the humanitarian disaster and prison it is. So this is nothing but a kooky conspiracy theory. Face it- not everything is the fault of the Jewish Big Satan.

Israel doesn't want Gaza as part of its territory, only as a prison for deprived Palestinians. You don't need to agree with me. You and most of the Israeli society need to admit that you are keeping an entire nation as prisoner and learn empathy, because this is the only way for peace and reconciliation. Otherwise where is the difference between the "moderates" in Israel and the fanatic ultranationalists? Are they allies or useful idiots? Netanyahu is arguably a criminal, besides a corrupt crook. However, I think Netanyahu is only a symptom of a broader moral degradation that affects the entire Israeli society. More than 50 years of occupation leave an permanent mark. Wake up.

[PSOL]

^^ Hamas even admits that they can’t run the Strip. It’s time to put new competent leadership to meet Gazan demands in the first place. I have no problem with the citizenry liberating themselves, I just do want to put out that Hamas is incompetent and a drag on the wishes of the Palestinian people, especially in the Gaza Strip.

[America Needs R'hllor]

A broader moral degradation that affects the entire Israeli society. More than 50 years of occupation leave an permanent mark. Wake up.

What a steaming pile of inconsiderate smears. Yes, the occupation leaves a mark and is terrible, but you're blaming me and my people here in a way that honestly disgusts me. Both sides are to blame for it, and blaming only us is nothing but antisemitic and just unproductive.

Terrorists target our innocent citizens directly. They murdered dozens of our children. They exploded with our buses and murdered us by the hundreds. Tunnels are dug into our mess halls and kindergartens to let evil murderers sneak in and slaughter us in cold blood. Rockets are constantly targeted and launched on our civilian homes. Hell, terrorists in a country we don't even occupy constantly threaten to destroy us, and in words that might teach YOU some empathy- they threaten to destroy my home and murder me and mine. And you DARE place all the blame on us and call our entirely society immoral? Reprehensible.

It's not the Israeli left that's to blame here, it's people like you who put all the blame on us. We admit our flaws and are ready to compromise if the other side is too. But we're also proud of pur country and are ready to defend our people, and alienating us will give you nothing. If the American left is taken over by people like you and the world abandons the Jews? Well, say goodbye to peace in the Middle East, and remember that we have the most destructive means to defend ourselves. Peace will come when both sides are ready to come to the table and compromise.

[Former President tack50]

In an ideal world, Hamas and Israel would probably sign some sort of "Good Friday Agreement" where Gaza becomes independent and demilitarized and Hamas disbands.

Pipedream? Sure, but it's extremely clear that keeping Gaza as it currently stands is not in Israel's best interest either.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In an ideal world, Hamas and Israel would probably sign some sort of "Good Friday Agreement" where Gaza becomes independent and demilitarized and Hamas disbands.

Pipedream? Sure, but it's extremely clear that keeping Gaza as it currently stands is not in Israel's best interest either.

The status quo is definitely in Likud's best interests.

[Velasco]

A broader moral degradation that affects the entire Israeli society. More than 50 years of occupation leave an permanent mark. Wake up.

What a steaming pile of inconsiderate smears. Yes, the occupation leaves a mark and is terrible, but you're blaming me and my people here in a way that honestly disgusts me. Both sides are to blame for it, and blaming only us is nothing but antisemitic and just unproductive.

Terrorists target our innocent citizens directly. They murdered dozens of our children. They exploded with our buses and murdered us by the hundreds. Tunnels are dug into our mess halls and kindergartens to let evil murderers sneak in and slaughter us in cold blood. Rockets are constantly targeted and launched on our civilian homes. Hell, terrorists in a country we don't even occupy constantly threaten to destroy us, and in words that might teach YOU some empathy- they threaten to destroy my home and murder me and mine. And you DARE place all the blame on us and call our entirely society immoral? Reprehensible.

It's not the Israeli left that's to blame here, it's people like you who put all the blame on us. We admit our flaws and are ready to compromise if the other side is too. But we're also proud of pur country and are ready to defend our people, and alienating us will give you nothing. If the American left is taken over by people like you and the world abandons the Jews? Well, say goodbye to peace in the Middle East, and remember that we have the most destructive means to defend ourselves. Peace will come when both sides are ready to come to the table and compromise.

I will never support terrorism as a means to liberate the Palestinian people from the oppressive occupation and the criminal actions of the Israeli state. Never. However, I'd argue that the threat posed by the Hamas rockets is far from being an unbearable burden for the corrupt criminals that run the Israeli state. To the contrary, they look like a convenient pretext to perpetuate the perverse prison system enforced by the Israeli occupants over the Palestinians living in the penal colonies of Gaza and the West Bank.

I read your claims on the right of your people to have security and a land where you can live. I have nothing to say against these claims, if it not were for a couple of details. Firstly I claim that it's not possible to set the foundations of a democratic state on the oppression of other peoples. Secondly, the ignorance of the other people's right to exist and the lack of empathy towards the Palestinians are clear symptoms of moral degradation. As long as moderates or progressives in Israel are not ready to accept these simple facts, I see no great difference between them and the ultranationalists. Furthermore, some people might argue the latter are less hypocritical.

I'm sorry if you feel outraged, but again: wake up and learn empathy.  

[America Needs R'hllor]

wake up and learn empathy.  

The only ones who need to learn empathy are those who smear and degrade an entire side of this conflict despite the suffering its people went through, rather than looking at the big picture and realizing there's blame on both sides.

Yes, I'm talking about you, and yes, I'm talking about Palestinian extremists, and yes, I'm also talking about the extremists on my side.

[dead0man]

"I will never support terrorism, but I will make excuses for those who do!" - people not very good at hiding their bigotry