Why do Dutch Reformed/Calvinists vote Republican so heavily?

[Boobs]

These groups, especially in the Midwest (western MI, Wisconsin, etc), vote much more Republican than their peers, even when in similar white, rural areas and in suburbs such as those around Grand Rapids. Why is that? I’m curious and I’ll admit I don’t know much about these groups.

[Wisconsin SC Race 2019]

These groups, especially in the Midwest (western MI, Wisconsin, etc), vote much more Republican than their peers, even when in similar white, rural areas and in suburbs such as those around Grand Rapids. Why is that? I’m curious and I’ll admit I don’t know much about these groups.

Similar profile (strongly devout, middle-class or higher) as Mormons in Utah.  

[DC Al Fine]

I'm a (non-Dutch) Calvinist, so I'll take a crack at it.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

As Hofoid said, the Dutch Reformed have built a strong support structure outside of the state, similar to Mormonism. This probably leads Dutch Calvinists to be less supportive of the welfare state than other groups. These factors make Dutch Calvinists tailor-made for the pre-Trump GOP. It's less of a great fit in the Trump presidency, but the attraction is still there.

Lastly, the Dutch were an historically GOP voting group, so there probably are some ancestral GOP votes that you wouldn't get with say, similarly situated Latinos.

[darklordoftech]

very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards

adhere to free market economics than say

Is this because of predestination?

[Boobs]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

[DINGO Joe]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

[Technocracy Timmy]

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

Jesus was a free market capitalist.

[RFayette]

I'm a (non-Dutch) Calvinist, so I'll take a crack at it.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

As Hofoid said, the Dutch Reformed have built a strong support structure outside of the state, similar to Mormonism. This probably leads Dutch Calvinists to be less supportive of the welfare state than other groups. These factors make Dutch Calvinists tailor-made for the pre-Trump GOP. It's less of a great fit in the Trump presidency, but the attraction is still there.

Lastly, the Dutch were an historically GOP voting group, so there probably are some ancestral GOP votes that you wouldn't get with say, similarly situated Latinos.

This is basically the case.  Interestingly, Dutch-heavy counties in NW Iowa, SW Minnesota, and SE South Dakota seemed to swing to the GOP in 2016 whereas the heavily Dutch counties in Michigan (Kent and Ottawa) swung the other way, though this is almost certainly attributable to the educated suburban vs. rural divide in terms of swings.

In this sense there probably is a divide among Dutch Calvinists, with the more rural ones being solidly GOP/pro-Trump (as evidenced by Steve King continuing to win Republican primaries in NW Iowa, which is very highly Dutch Calvinist) while the suburban ones, while mostly still Republican, are much more Trump-skeptical - basically, Steve King vs. Bill Huizenga is the dynamic here.  That being said, I think both groups will remain very Republican in the years to come.  

[RINO Tom]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

[darklordoftech]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

I thought you were the one who says, "The Republicans have always been the ones who use classist rhetoric."

[Technocracy Timmy]

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

Even more reason for Lord Thomas the Younger to become a Democrat.

[RINO Tom]

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

Even more reason for Lord Thomas the Younger to become a Democrat.

Come up with your own nicknames, kids; Santander has put in the work.

[RINO Tom]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

I thought you were the one who says, "The Republicans have always been the ones who use classist rhetoric."

If you’re gonna be classist, don’t claim moral high ground.  Own it.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

I thought you were the one who says, "The Republicans have always been the ones who use classist rhetoric."

If you’re gonna be classist, don’t claim moral high ground.  Own it.

Except the issue is specifically in regards to white trash Trump supporters who not only embrace the term “white trash” but who also willingly accept economic policy that benefits the upper class so long as minorities are kept in their place.

[RFayette]

Except the issue is specifically in regards to white trash Trump supporters who not only embrace the term “white trash” but who also willingly accept economic policy that benefits the upper class so long as minorities are kept in their place.

OK, but this doesn't describe Dutch Calvinist Trump supporters at all.

Look at the poverty rate along the IA-MN-SD border and Ottawa/Kent County, MI and you'll see poverty rates well below average.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Except the issue is specifically in regards to white trash Trump supporters who not only embrace the term “white trash” but who also willingly accept economic policy that benefits the upper class so long as minorities are kept in their place.

OK, but this doesn't describe Dutch Calvinist Trump supporters at all.

Look at the poverty rate along the IA-MN-SD border and Ottawa/Kent County, MI and you'll see poverty rates well below average.

-snip-

Oh they’re definitely well off alright. But I’m gonna take a guess that RINO Tom’s discussion with his friend about how classist the Dems are wasn’t in regards to the voting patterns of Dutch-American Calvinist voters.

They were likely complaining about how poor whites in general are treated poorly by Dems in their rhetoric or something.

[DINGO Joe]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

They love grifters like Trump and Amway.  And white nationalists like Steve King.

I just had a really nice conversation with a friend about how hilariously conservative some Democrats sound when it comes to matters of class now a days.

RINO Tom is like a teacher on summer vacation--No Class!

The Census estimates for the great bastion of the Dutch, Sioux County, is that the county is now 11% Hispanic.  Maybe they're the long lost Mexican Dutch.  Or maybe all those farms should be raided and those King-Trump lickers put in shackles for employing anyone with fake documents. 

I don't see what grifting has to do with class in the sense that you're using it.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

DC Al Fine will put it more eloquently, I'm sure, but historically Calvinism conceives of work as a divine calling, and so self-betterment as bringing oneself closer to God—'industriousness is next to Godliness,' you could say. The historian Max Weber called this the "Protestant work ethic," and it was an important divergence away from Medieval ideas of wealth and competition and towards the modern market economy.

I'm probably missing several crucial theological distinctions, but that's my understanding anyways.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I'm a (non-Dutch) Calvinist, so I'll take a crack at it.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

As Hofoid said, the Dutch Reformed have built a strong support structure outside of the state, similar to Mormonism. This probably leads Dutch Calvinists to be less supportive of the welfare state than other groups. These factors make Dutch Calvinists tailor-made for the pre-Trump GOP. It's less of a great fit in the Trump presidency, but the attraction is still there.

Lastly, the Dutch were an historically GOP voting group, so there probably are some ancestral GOP votes that you wouldn't get with say, similarly situated Latinos.

I'm curious about their views on going out to eat after church.  Because in Baptist circles, getting a group together to go to a restaurant after church is extremely common.  I did that last Sunday, for instance.

[Indy Texas]

I'm a (non-Dutch) Calvinist, so I'll take a crack at it.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

As Hofoid said, the Dutch Reformed have built a strong support structure outside of the state, similar to Mormonism. This probably leads Dutch Calvinists to be less supportive of the welfare state than other groups. These factors make Dutch Calvinists tailor-made for the pre-Trump GOP. It's less of a great fit in the Trump presidency, but the attraction is still there.

Lastly, the Dutch were an historically GOP voting group, so there probably are some ancestral GOP votes that you wouldn't get with say, similarly situated Latinos.

I'm curious about their views on going out to eat after church.  Because in Baptist circles, getting a group together to go to a restaurant after church is extremely common.  I did that last Sunday, for instance.

If you take a very conservative interpretation, you should not engage in commerce on the Sabbath. You shouldn't buy any goods or services (including restaurant meals) on that day. This was the original logic behind laws mandating that all businesses be closed on Sundays.

If you want to have a large meal after church, the historical expectation would be to host people for a cooked meal at your home, or a potluck at church with homecooked food.

[Smid]

This thread reminds me a little of an article I read once. It has some issues, for example, when discussing a county in Iowa, mentioning that it is one of a small number of counties across America where Trump received <20% of the vote in the primary conveniently forgets that there were many more candidates splitting the vote, but setting that aside, it's an interesting piece about MAGA demographics and makes specific reference to areas with high Dutch Reformed Church attendance. It mentions specifically the "strong support structure outside of the state" that DC Al Fine mentions:

Sioux is home to Orange City and Sioux Center, and it is the Dutchest county in America. Dutch ancestry is probably one of the best proxies the Census has for religious attendance.

Jordan Helming, a transplant whom I met at a Jeb Bush rally in Sioux Center, was astounded by the religiosity of the place, including the sheer number of churches. “There are 19 of them in this town—a town of 7,000 has 19 churches.”

Different strains of Reformed Christianity dominate in this overwhelmingly Dutch county, from austere old-world Calvinism (“the frozen chosen” they call themselves) to more evangelical flavors. Attendance (often twice on Sundays) is high, and the churches build strong community bonds.

“You care about your neighbors,” Helming explained, “you care about your environment, but you also take care of it yourself—don’t rely on the government.”

A New Yorker profile of Orange City characterized the pitch the locals make to potential residents: “When you have children, we’ll help you take care of them. People here share your values, it’s a good Christian place. And they care about you: if anything happens, they’ll have your back.”

The devout and close-knit Norwegian and Dutch pockets on the Great Plains had a larger echo in the Mountain West—the Mormons. Not counting D.C., Trump’s second worst state in the primaries was Utah. His biggest drop-off from Romney was in Utah. Utah tops all measures of religiosity, and not coincidentally it also tops most measures of happy, well-adjusted lives.

[RFayette]

^What is fascinating about areas like Sioux County, Iowa is that they ended up swinging toward Trump in the '16 general election, in stark contrast to other areas where Trump did very poorly in the primaries (such as Utah) which swung sharply against him in the general. 

[DC Al Fine]

very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards

adhere to free market economics than say

Is this because of predestination?

That gets asserted a lot, but to me it sounds like a "just so" story from people who have no experience with Reformed theology. The narrative is usually presented that success in business was taken as a sign of being a member of God's elect people, but basically every important Calvinist taught that it's a grave sin to speculate about the salvation of others, and that wealth has nothing to do with election. The narrative just doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when the Calvinist doctrine of work, which Harry S Truman outlined, explains our pro business side so much better.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

Interesting, thanks.

What do you mean by a pro-business theology?

DC Al Fine will put it more eloquently, I'm sure, but historically Calvinism conceives of work as a divine calling, and so self-betterment as bringing oneself closer to God—'industriousness is next to Godliness,' you could say. The historian Max Weber called this the "Protestant work ethic," and it was an important divergence away from Medieval ideas of wealth and competition and towards the modern market economy.

I'm probably missing several crucial theological distinctions, but that's my understanding anyways.

You covered the theology fine. The history of it is: Catholicism has a concept of "vocation" or a divine call to serve God as a priest, monk, or nun. The Reformers thought based on their reading of Colossians 3:23-25, that this was to narrow and expanded the idea to cover all work. It's not that Calvin was a proto-capitalist, but when you apply the doctrine to businessmen, it's really hard to simultaeneously hold a very left wing view of economics.

As for the pro-business religious culture I mentioned, Calvinist condemnations of bad rich people tend to be less about wealth itself and more about conspicuous consumption. Accumulating wealth is considered fine so long as you are saving/giving it to the church and the poor, but spending  on expensive cars or a boat would be frowned upon. This is where the stereotype about Puritan dress comes from.

I'm a (non-Dutch) Calvinist, so I'll take a crack at it.

Calvinist theology and religious culture is very socially conservative, and very fiscally conservative/pro-business, even by conservative Protestant standards. A Dutch Calvinist is more likely to observe the Sabbath (e.g. not go to a restaurant after church), view divorce harshly,  and adhere to free market economics than say, an Scotch-Irish Baptist.

As Hofoid said, the Dutch Reformed have built a strong support structure outside of the state, similar to Mormonism. This probably leads Dutch Calvinists to be less supportive of the welfare state than other groups. These factors make Dutch Calvinists tailor-made for the pre-Trump GOP. It's less of a great fit in the Trump presidency, but the attraction is still there.

Lastly, the Dutch were an historically GOP voting group, so there probably are some ancestral GOP votes that you wouldn't get with say, similarly situated Latinos.

I'm curious about their views on going out to eat after church.  Because in Baptist circles, getting a group together to go to a restaurant after church is extremely common.  I did that last Sunday, for instance.

If you take a very conservative interpretation, you should not engage in commerce on the Sabbath. You shouldn't buy any goods or services (including restaurant meals) on that day. This was the original logic behind laws mandating that all businesses be closed on Sundays.

If you want to have a large meal after church, the historical expectation would be to host people for a cooked meal at your home, or a potluck at church with homecooked food.

Indy has it right. Sabbath observance has declined significantly over the past century. Reformed churches are outliers because they still take it fairly seriously. We believe that restaurant and retail workers are effectively acting as the "servants" described in the Sabbath command, so we abstain from engaging in commerce on Sunday. 

Heck, I don't even make my daughter put away her toys on Sunday! (And there was much rejoicing in the Al Fine household)

[King of Kensington]

In Canada, I'm sure Dutch is one of the most pro-Conservative ancestry groups and the smaller Christian Heritage Party seems to be mostly made up of Dutch Canadians.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

Calvinists are the good old traditional voting base of the Grand Old Party.