Mueller report thread - Mueller testimony July 24

[Frodo]

Good thing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tried to rein in her fellow Democrats earlier on impeaching Trump...  

[S019]

It did explicitly state Trump wasn't exonerated so it's too far to say this exonerates him, though it is probably a relief for him compared to what some people may have been expecting/hoping for.

You have to remember that Republicans control the narrative, so this is going to be spun as a complete exoneration. With the economy the way it is, this country's clueless independents will all come home and his approval rating will probably be in the 60s by the end of the year.

Lolololololololololol

Trump is way too polarizing to have an approval above 53%, even in a perfect storm, his approval will peak at 47% at the 2020 election and then immediately plunge back into the lower 40's by February 2021

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

https://youtu.be/Fy7h18HObJk

[Sestak]

Honestl, I don’t know how much long term impact this will have. It’s certainly happened early enough for candidates to focus on something other than Russia (which, for the most part they already have been doing) and also prevents them from relying on it later in the campaign only for a similar result to blow up in their faces much closer than the election.

[Crumpets]

Trump won. He always finds a way to win. I feel sick.

Oh, don't be so dramatic. Did you really expect someone who was given his current position explicitly to stymie Mueller's investigation to give a complete and passionate condemnation of Trump in a two page summary of a likely multi-hundred page report? I'll take the "does not exonnerate" Trump line as a pretty substantial concession from the AG for now, and we must continue to push for the full report to be released. Othwise, we have absolutely no reaosn to take Barr at his word or consider this a done deal.

[GeorgiaModerate]

So, Trump's approvals go up by at least 5% now right?

He might get a bump, but I doubt much changes.

If Trump followed this up by toning down his personality and actually trying to be a uniter instead of a divider, it's likely that his approvals would go up several points and stay there.  He'd probably be reelected next year (unless the economy tanks before then or one of the other investigations finds something really terrible).

The probability of Trump actually doing that is somewhere between zero and zero.

[DrScholl]

The way I see it this still leaves Democrats to frame the situation however they choose. Trump's Attorney General is claiming he did nothing wrong while not letting the public see the report. That's an easy talking point right there.

[Skye]

So you mean to tell me all those "NO COLLUSION!" tweets...

[GeorgiaModerate]

So you mean to tell me all those "NO COLLUSION!" tweets...

Think of it as confirmation of all those people who said the campaign was too inept to actually collude.

[DrScholl]

So you mean to tell me all those "NO COLLUSION!" tweets...

People have already been indicted for crimes, so it's pretty clear something was happening. But I suppose you could be like Manson followers and say Manson was innocent because he had other people commit crimes...

[Frodo]

I wrote a long, depressed diatribe about this in the "Indictment-o-rama" thread, so if you care what I think go read that there. The Cliffnotes version of it is that I now think that Trump firing Mueller and creating a constitutional crisis for the country would have been a better result and that I was wise to temper my expectations of the report. That still didn't help that much though. I'm feeling really down right now. This may not 100% guarantee Trump's re-election but it undeniably helps him. The guy is practically invincible.

Since you apparently know what's in the report already, how about sharing it with the rest of us?

The lack of any new indictments plus my already pessimistic expectations are enough to make me think that the report will vindicate Trump.

We already know more than enough to impeach Trump. He has violated his Oath of Office and the Emoluments Clause. He actively solicited and recieved help from the Russian government to win election. And he, his family, business and campaign, sought a quid pro quo of Trump Tower Moscow for sanctions relief. These aren't things we were waiting on the Mueller report to prove, they're matters of public record. But as Pelosi has acknowledged, the GOP isn't going to do their damned job and impeach Trump while they have any alternative.

What I'm hoping is that the Mueller report will be damning enough to make continuing to enable Trump prohibitively damaging to the GOP. This has never been super-likely, but given what we already know, hoping that Mueller's investigation would produce such info is reasonable. There was never going to be an indictment of Trump from Mueller. Justice Dept procedure was very clear on that, and a by the book guy like Mueller was unlikely to violate precedent like that. I was expecting more indictments of criminals in Trump's circle, but as far as I know, there are still sealed indictments and Muller has demonstrated a pattern of handing off prosecutions not directly related to his directive.

For now, I'll wait and see. But let's be clear - the public evidence of Trump's malfeasance is already damning. There is no vindication, at most, he will not be driven from office. (The cult may claim that as a vindication, but they're deplorable to begin with.)

I'm more worried about undecideds or Trump's soft-support becoming more solidified behind him if the report doesn't detail any wrongdoing. Those are the dumbest, and most dangerous people in this country, as I see it. They're Trump's truest enablers.

I always knew that Trump's base would interpret this in the most self-validating way possible whether that interpretation is "vindication" or "witch hunt-conspiracy." But with the high profile that this investigation has had over the past two years, being equated to Watergate and everything, any sort of positive development for Trump and his cohorts within it may endanger future investigations by the Democratic House committees or even the Southern District of New York investigation. They're going to have to tread carefully now because such a result from the Mueller report may end up backing up Trump's claims of a "partisan witch hunt," even in spite of several Russian conspirators and Trump subordinates getting indicted. Americans' attention spans and capability for rationally seeing the big picture don't bode well for the republic if we don't get any revelations that aren't particularly damaging. All other aspects of Trump's corruption that are already well-known or may become known in the name of transparency or ethics, may just cease to matter. That's why I've been so nervous these past two days.

You're not the only one here with those concerns.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

The reeling and conspiracy theory is delicious.

Also, LOL

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The reeling and conspiracy theory is delicious.

Also, LOL

Hasn’t AOL been down for months.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Barr and Nadler/House Dems are obviously going to spin this. There's no reason to base any inference on what they say. Their words are all meaningless.

There is no reason to take any spin other than the actual report itself. That is where the fight is headed. Try to keep up.

I don't think this is going to sway very many people either way because few people care. Democrats have been making the mistake of thinking that this will somehow to lead to a deus ex machina removal of Trump. But obviously that's wrong and will continue to be wrong no matter what the report says. Shooting someone on fifth avenue, etc.

[Xing]

It may not be "exonerating" for Trump, but clearly Democrats should focus on something else in the 2020 election.

[Reaganfan]

It may not be "exonerating" for Trump, but clearly Democrats should focus on something else in the 2020 election.

Yeah. Like 2024.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

While it's true that this won't change enough minds to have an actual impact on the results of the 2020 Presidential election, this seems like good news for Trump from what I've heard.

I'm starting to think 2020 is going to be a 2004 redux.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I accept the summary and the conclusions that it provides. The investigation is over, and we should accept the result. That being said, this does not change the fact that I am opposed to the Trump Presidency in General.

[Crumpets]

I accept the summary and the conclusions that it provides. The investigation is over, and we should accept the result. That being said, this does not change the fact that I am opposed to the Trump Presidency in General.

We should accept the result. We don't know the result until we see the report. I trust Mueller. I don't trust Barr.

[Thatkat04]

The spin on both sides right now makes me think this doesn't effect anything.

[DrScholl]

It may not be "exonerating" for Trump, but clearly Democrats should focus on something else in the 2020 election.

Yeah. Like 2024.

Trump spent the past week attacking a dead man. Believing, 2020 is the end of his presidency.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

This is free speech.  He said "I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and my poll numbers wouldn't go down!" It was obviously in jest and not a threat.  If he said "I will shoot someone" well that's a threat and would have to be looked into and would've I believe.

Trump jokes a lot but people seem to want to take him seriously word-for-word anyway.

Barr and Nadler/House Dems are obviously going to spin this. There's no reason to base any inference on what they say. Their words are all meaningless.

There is no reason to take any spin other than the actual report itself. That is where the fight is headed. Try to keep up.

I don't think this is going to sway very many people either way because few people care. Democrats have been making the mistake of thinking that this will somehow to lead to a deus ex machina removal of Trump. But obviously that's wrong and will continue to be wrong no matter what the report says. Shooting someone on fifth avenue, etc.

[S019]

While it's true that this won't change enough minds to have an actual impact on the results of the 2020 Presidential election, this seems like good news for Trump from what I've heard.

I'm starting to think 2020 is going to be a 2004 redux.

No, because the popular vote is Likely/Safe D and just about everyone agrees that Trump will do worse in the EC, he almost certainly loses Michigan, Pennsylvania is 50-50, his only pick up opportunity is really NH, which is 50-50

[Reaganfan]

I never thought "obstruction" would have been valid anyways. Firing the Director of the FBI is executive privilege and it was difficult to argue with executive privilege. Hell, even Nixon's "Saturday night massacre" was legal.

President Hillary Clinton would have also fired James Comey the second she took office, so Comey was going to be terminated one way or another.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]