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  LC 1.18 Students Have Rights Too Act.
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Author Topic: LC 1.18 Students Have Rights Too Act.  (Read 1657 times)
Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #100 on: May 08, 2019, 08:18:38 pm »

I would vote Aye on this but I don't want to be on atlas next week. Can someone who would vote no abstain to pair with me for abstention?(I would vote aye as long as thr says the full bill is friendly)

Is this on the final vote or the vote to override a filibuster
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Elliot County Populist
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« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2019, 08:26:35 pm »

I would vote Aye on this but I don't want to be on atlas next week. Can someone who would vote no abstain to pair with me for abstention?(I would vote aye as long as thr says the full bill is friendly)

Is this on the final vote or the vote to override a filibuster

This is on both votes I guess.
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Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #102 on: May 08, 2019, 09:17:27 pm »

I would vote Aye on this but I don't want to be on atlas next week. Can someone who would vote no abstain to pair with me for abstention?(I would vote aye as long as thr says the full bill is friendly)

Is this on the final vote or the vote to override a filibuster

This is on both votes I guess.

I can Abstain on the final vote, because if the filibuster fails, there is no way that the bill would fail a final vote
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« Reply #103 on: May 08, 2019, 09:22:03 pm »

ATTN PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL: the unamended version is probably not passing. If you want parts of it at least, Id recommend asking for debate to continue.
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Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #104 on: May 08, 2019, 09:45:28 pm »

ATTN PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS BILL: the unamended version is probably not passing. If you want parts of it at least, Id recommend asking for debate to continue.

I agree, scrap the parts dealing with prayer in schools, and this bill earns my support
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thr33_
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« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2019, 11:58:47 am »

I'm not entirely opposed to a more limited bill removing the controversial sections if that's the only way this will pass, but from reading the debate, given that it's been stated a lot of the rights stated in the bill have been affirmed by the SCOTUS, by omission aren't we denying rulings?
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« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2019, 12:07:21 pm »

I'm not entirely opposed to a more limited bill removing the controversial sections if that's the only way this will pass, but from reading the debate, given that it's been stated a lot of the rights stated in the bill have been affirmed by the SCOTUS, by omission aren't we denying rulings?

I think (ignoring SNJC) the primary sticking point is II.6 - I agree that just thanking Jesus once during a graduation speech is probably acceptable? But the section goes far beyond that, allowing student speakers to turn mandatory assemblies into basically sermons.  There is, I think, some rewording/tightening that can be done here.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #107 on: May 09, 2019, 04:40:00 pm »

I'm not entirely opposed to a more limited bill removing the controversial sections if that's the only way this will pass, but from reading the debate, given that it's been stated a lot of the rights stated in the bill have been affirmed by the SCOTUS, by omission aren't we denying rulings?

I think (ignoring SNJC) the primary sticking point is II.6 - I agree that just thanking Jesus once during a graduation speech is probably acceptable? But the section goes far beyond that, allowing student speakers to turn mandatory assemblies into basically sermons.  There is, I think, some rewording/tightening that can be done here.

The main cases regarding coercive prayer in schools held that requiring prayer by students is illegal, teacher led prayer in class is illegal, and a literal invocation, like a prayer to open an assembly or event or football game is not allowed whether by staff, students, or invited guests. The test from lee v. Weissman and Santa Fe v Doe is if a reasonable person would interpret a prayer as school approved speech. An invocation definitely meets that standard. Im hesitant to say non-vetted speeches would be viewed the same. If during a speech the student says "Go Tech" that wouldn't be viewed as the public school endorsing Virginia tech over other schools. Same if they said "1st period math was my favorite class", "I love my 2 moms", "if not for my devotion to God and his prophet I may have dropped out", "im a proud eagle scout", etc. In the case of an invocation, that is an identified viewpoint. In the case of a public or semi public forum, the implication is that anyone can speak on anything. Thats not the same as apparent endorsement.

 IRL Our local high school football team prays together as a team before games but not over a microphone and several athletes choose not to circle up without any retaliation for not joining. I see no harm in adding a clause or 2 stipulating no invocations.
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tack50
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« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2019, 06:31:50 am »

Does someone have a fix for the bill?

Alternatively I guess we could discuss the last one proposed (my ammendment) as a starting point. For the people who voted no, what were the problems you have with it?
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tack50
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« Reply #109 on: May 15, 2019, 05:35:45 pm »
« Edited: May 16, 2019, 11:54:44 am by tack50 »

With no one providing any real ideas, I guess I'll introduced a modified version of the ammendment I proposed earlier, which does keep prayer fully protected (taking out the ammendment to section II.4 and part of the ammendment to II.5.

To answer to JK2020's old question, I personally don't find II.6 to be controversial, my problems are with II.4 and II.5 though I guess I can live with them.

Ammendment L 2:24 by tack50 to LC 1.18  Students Have Rights Too Act.

Quote
SECTION I: NAME
1. This act shall be called the Students Have Rights Too Act.

SECTION II: STUDENT RIGHTS IN PUBLIC PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS
1. Public school districts shall not discriminate against students or parents on the basis of their religious viewpoints or expressions of religion.
2. Students may wear clothing, accessories and jewelry that display religious messages or symbols in the same manner and to the same extent that other types of clothing, accessories and jewelry that display messages or symbols are permitted.
3. Students may express their beliefs about their religion in their class assignments, discussions, and artwork free of discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Such work must be evaluated by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance. If assignments or artwork containing religious viewpoints are shown or made available to parents, the community, or the general public, it must be accompanied with a disclaimer that the viewpoints expressed are those of the student and are not endorsed by the school district.
4. Students in public schools may pray or engage in religious activities or religious expression before, during and after the school day in the same manner and to the same extent that students may engage in secular student-led activities or expression. Students may organize prayer groups, religious clubs, “see you at the pole” gatherings, or other religious gatherings before, during, and after school to the same extent that students may organize or participate in other extracurricular gatherings and groups. Religious groups must be granted the same access to school facilities as other student extracurricular groups.
5. Student-led religious groups or organizations may invite outside guests, such as clergy, religious leaders or parents, to speak, teach, or lead prayers at group meetings. Invited guests must be approved by school administration, pass a school district-approved background check, and not teach or endorse any viewpoints that are contrary to the law or school district curriculum or may incite hatred towards other groups, organizations or activities. Guests may not be paid or materially reimbursed in any way by the school district, parent association, or student association.
6. Students who speak in public forums such as assemblies, graduation ceremonies, and sporting events shall be free to express their religious viewpoints to the extent that secular viewpoints would be permitted. Students who speak in such forums shall be selected based on neutral criteria. School districts and individual schools are free to establish time limits and other restrictions that do not infringe student expression. School administrators must provide disclaimers that student viewpoints are those of the student and are not endorsed by the school district through all relevant channels, including but not limited to oral announcement and written disclaimers in in the event program.
7. This act is not intended to, nor shall it be construed to, authorize this region or any of its political or administrative subdivisions to:
a. Require any person to participate in prayer or other religious activities.
b. Violate the constitutional rights of any person.
8. No student shall be forced to take part in any sort of religious activity before, during or after school hours. Participation in religious activities in any school in the region shall require authorization from the student and if said student is a minor, from their parents or legal tutors as well. Participation in religious activities shall also not be considered for the purposes of grading by any school in this region, nor by any university, college or graduate school in this region for the purposes of grading, access, enrollment, scholarships or dorm assignments
8. 9. Upon reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, any educational personnel may request consent to search any student's belongings and/or property. The student that would be searched may, if they see fit, refuse consent to any such search. Such a refusal is not to be construed as insubordination. The taking of any disciplinary action by any educational official, as a response to refusal of consent to a request to search, is hereby prohibited. Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the right of an educational official to acquire a warrant for any search, to search when a warrant is possessed, or to search when a warrant is not required. Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting "probable cause" based searches. Nothing in this section shall be construed as giving students property rights in an assigned locker, desk, or workspace.
9. 10. Section IV of the Lincoln Gun Control Act mandating school employees search every item that enters a school before it enters a school is hereby repealed.
10. 11. No student shall be required to obtain permission to possess lotion or sunscreen while at school.
11. 12. No public school district may prohibit students from carrying bags or purses that are not transparent.
12. 13. Any public school system may allow students in the same administrative district who are enrolled in a lawful home school program to participate in extracurricular activities conducted by the public school system, provided the home school students are subject to the same waiver of liability applicable to public school students.

SECTION III: STUDENT RIGHTS IN PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES
1. Every public College and University in Lincoln has an obligation to protect peaceful expressive activities by enrolled students. Any enrolled student who: physically obstructs another enrolled student or their guest from engaging in protected expressive activities or who causes a disruption for the purpose of preventing another enrolled student or their guest from engaging in protected expressive activities, shall be sanctioned by the College. Colleges may determine the appropiate punishment for said students. Nothing in this section shall construe the police and the justice systems of this region from prosecuting the student to the full extent of the law for any laws they might have broken. Any student sanctioned under this subsection on 3 separate occasions, shall be suspended from the College for 1 year following a hearing. Any enrolled student who causes a disruption for the purpose of preventing another enrolled student or their guest from engaging in protected expressive activities by falsely pulling a fire alarm, threatening violence, or committing actual violence, shall be suspended from the college for 1 year, following a hearing.
2. Any outdoors public space on a public College, other than roadways, is a public forum. No public College may maintain a speech code prohibiting expressive activities in a public forum, other than enforcing reasonable noise limits between the hours of 11 P.M. and 7 A.M.
3. 2. No public College shall consider the race or religion of any student when determining dormitory assignments.
4. 3. Any student enrolled in a public College in Lincoln who has been accused of a crime, shall be entitled to due process prior to being suspended from the college. This shall include adequate notice of the time of, place of, and accusations being presented during a fair and impartial hearing, the right to attend the hearing with legal counsel, the right to offer evidence to challenge the accusations, the right to make a record or transcript of the hearing, and the right to address the hearing prior to a final decision.
5. No person enrolled in a public College or University who may lawfully own a weapon or firearm shall be prevented from storing their weapon or firearm inside a locked vehicle which is lawfully parked upon the boundaries of a public College.
6. The failure by any public College in Lincoln to abide by these requirements, shall result in a 25% reduction of funding.
7. 4. The following information shall not be subject to Lincoln FOIA laws:
a.) The name, address, any identifying information, and any contact information of any student in a public school or public college in Lincoln.

SECTION IV: ENACTMENT
1. This act shall take effect forty-five (45) days after passage.

Sponsor feedback: Friendly
Status: Added to the bill
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Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2019, 06:49:32 pm »

Still too generous in terms of school prayer, remove school prayer, entirely
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tack50
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« Reply #111 on: May 15, 2019, 06:59:05 pm »

Still too generous in terms of school prayer, remove school prayer, entirely
[/quote
Uh, we voted a more limited ammendment and that failed already. This version is even more limited. In fact it keeps school prayer fully intact
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Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2019, 07:00:31 pm »

Still too generous in terms of school prayer, remove school prayer, entirely
[/quote
Uh, we voted a more limited ammendment and that failed already. This version is even more limited. In fact it keeps school prayer fully intact

I oppose school prayer
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thr33_
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« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2019, 11:52:08 am »
« Edited: May 16, 2019, 11:56:41 am by thr33_ »

Tack - I'm fine with this amendment, it's friendly.

EDIT: Appreciate you working on this.
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tack50
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« Reply #114 on: May 16, 2019, 11:55:26 am »

Now that we have reached a compromise I think, I motion for a final vote. 24h to object
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tack50
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« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2019, 05:37:48 pm »

With no objections being entered in 24h:

Councillors, a FINAL vote is now open on the following legislation

LC 1.18  Students Have Rights Too Act.

Quote
SECTION I: NAME
1. This act shall be called the Students Have Rights Too Act.

SECTION II: STUDENT RIGHTS IN PUBLIC PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS
1. Public school districts shall not discriminate against students or parents on the basis of their religious viewpoints or expressions of religion.
2. Students may wear clothing, accessories and jewelry that display religious messages or symbols in the same manner and to the same extent that other types of clothing, accessories and jewelry that display messages or symbols are permitted.
3. Students may express their beliefs about their religion in their class assignments, discussions, and artwork free of discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Such work must be evaluated by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance. If assignments or artwork containing religious viewpoints are shown or made available to parents, the community, or the general public, it must be accompanied with a disclaimer that the viewpoints expressed are those of the student and are not endorsed by the school district.
4. Students in public schools may pray or engage in religious activities or religious expression before, during and after the school day in the same manner and to the same extent that students may engage in secular student-led activities or expression. Students may organize prayer groups, religious clubs, see you at the pole gatherings, or other religious gatherings before, during, and after school to the same extent that students may organize or participate in other extracurricular gatherings and groups. Religious groups must be granted the same access to school facilities as other student extracurricular groups.
5. Student-led religious groups or organizations may invite outside guests, such as clergy, religious leaders or parents, to speak, teach, or lead prayers at group meetings. Invited guests must be approved by school administration, pass a school district-approved background check, and not teach or endorse any viewpoints that are contrary to the law or school district curriculum or may incite hatred towards other groups, organizations or activities. Guests may not be paid or materially reimbursed in any way by the school district, parent association, or student association.
6. Students who speak in public forums such as assemblies, graduation ceremonies, and sporting events shall be free to express their religious viewpoints to the extent that secular viewpoints would be permitted. Students who speak in such forums shall be selected based on neutral criteria. School districts and individual schools are free to establish time limits and other restrictions that do not infringe student expression. School administrators must provide disclaimers that student viewpoints are those of the student and are not endorsed by the school district through all relevant channels, including but not limited to oral announcement and written disclaimers in in the event program.
7. This act is not intended to, nor shall it be construed to, authorize this region or any of its political or administrative subdivisions to:
a. Require any person to participate in prayer or other religious activities.
b. Violate the constitutional rights of any person.
8. No student shall be forced to take part in any sort of religious activity before, during or after school hours. Participation in religious activities in any school in the region shall require authorization from the student and if said student is a minor, from their parents or legal tutors as well. Participation in religious activities shall also not be considered for the purposes of grading by any school in this region, nor by any university, college or graduate school in this region for the purposes of grading, access, enrollment, scholarships or dorm assignments
9. Upon reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, any educational personnel may request consent to search any student's belongings and/or property. The student that would be searched may, if they see fit, refuse consent to any such search. Such a refusal is not to be construed as insubordination. The taking of any disciplinary action by any educational official, as a response to refusal of consent to a request to search, is hereby prohibited. Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the right of an educational official to acquire a warrant for any search, to search when a warrant is possessed, or to search when a warrant is not required. Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting "probable cause" based searches. Nothing in this section shall be construed as giving students property rights in an assigned locker, desk, or workspace.
10. Section IV of the Lincoln Gun Control Act mandating school employees search every item that enters a school before it enters a school is hereby repealed.
11. No student shall be required to obtain permission to possess lotion or sunscreen while at school.
12. No public school district may prohibit students from carrying bags or purses that are not transparent.
13. Any public school system may allow students in the same administrative district who are enrolled in a lawful home school program to participate in extracurricular activities conducted by the public school system, provided the home school students are subject to the same waiver of liability applicable to public school students.

SECTION III: STUDENT RIGHTS IN PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES
1. Every public College and University in Lincoln has an obligation to protect peaceful expressive activities by enrolled students. Any enrolled student who: physically obstructs another enrolled student or their guest from engaging in protected expressive activities or who causes a disruption for the purpose of preventing another enrolled student or their guest from engaging in protected expressive activities, shall be sanctioned by the College. Colleges may determine the appropiate punishment for said students. Nothing in this section shall construe the police and the justice systems of this region from prosecuting the student to the full extent of the law for any laws they might have broken.
2. No public College shall consider the race or religion of any student when determining dormitory assignments.
3. Any student enrolled in a public College in Lincoln who has been accused of a crime, shall be entitled to due process prior to being suspended from the college. This shall include adequate notice of the time of, place of, and accusations being presented during a fair and impartial hearing, the right to attend the hearing with legal counsel, the right to offer evidence to challenge the accusations, the right to make a record or transcript of the hearing, and the right to address the hearing prior to a final decision.
4. The following information shall not be subject to Lincoln FOIA laws:
a.) The name, address, any identifying information, and any contact information of any student in a public school or public college in Lincoln.

SECTION IV: ENACTMENT
1. This act shall take effect forty-five (45) days after passage.

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48h or until all councillors have voted
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Elliot County Populist
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« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2019, 05:43:07 pm »

Aye
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Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative
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« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2019, 05:56:50 pm »

Nay
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thr33_
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« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2019, 06:13:52 pm »

Aye
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Pyro
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« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2019, 07:08:59 pm »

NAY
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tack50
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« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2019, 01:13:42 pm »

After some thinking, while some of the worse aspects of the bill have been removed, I still can't fully endorse it. I am able to not cast a vote against though.

Abstain
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Dipper Josh
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« Reply #121 on: May 18, 2019, 01:59:05 pm »

Nay
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Fmr. Pres. Griff
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« Reply #122 on: May 18, 2019, 08:55:45 pm »

Nay, unfortunately
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Ninja0428
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« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2019, 02:37:47 pm »

Nay. Why was III.2 removed?
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tack50
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« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2019, 05:06:50 pm »

Nay. Why was III.2 removed?

Personally, I felt that:

1. That section was better served by the generic freedom of speech rules, as they stand in the federal and regional constitutions

2. It was a tiny bit too broad for me. Colleges, might want to dissassociate themselves from certain kinds of speech. For example, a typical case might be some sort of fringe obscene protest or an extremist rally. A college is still an institution after all and probably would want to disassociate themselves from those kinds of speech (or others), so that it isn't seen as an endorsement by the college of those positions.
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