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  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  2016 U.S. Presidential Election (Moderators: TJ in Oregon, Silurian)
  Was Hillary Clinton a victim of sexism
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Author Topic: Was Hillary Clinton a victim of sexism  (Read 2734 times)
HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2019, 09:04:16 am »
« edited: June 13, 2019, 09:10:08 am by HagridOfTheDeep »

The point is, no one will say, and few will even realize, that gendered perceptions played a major role in how they viewed Hillary Clinton and responded to her candidacy. Progressives make an effort to engage in considering how the intersection of identity influenced things whereas people on the right tend not to want to have that conversation—Venice Italy does it himself when he throws out a pretty unlikely example just for theatrics and then asserts, basically, that people wouldn’t see or care about these differences and that invoking the “isms” is “an excuse.” That’s total willful blindness.

And since, as I’ve said, people don’t tend to knowingly act out of discriminatory instincts, by the time the rough and tumble was over, these folks would just “have a bad feeling” about this person and stay home. VeniceItaly could very well be an exception, but when you cast your lot in with ignorant bigots and racists, you reap what you sow.

Call it a bubble, but I do not choose to surround myself with people who support politicians who debase and put down groups of marginalized people. If you vote GOP, that’s what you are doing whether it’s your intention or not. And it’s way too common that these people make excuses for themselves and others for the side effects of “what ends up happening” to minorities than actually taking responsibility and making a change. “The people I’d otherwise have” don’t stick around when you actually demand what is required for equitability. My aunt isn’t a racist until someone gently asks her to reconsider using the term “cotton pickin’.” Then she’s a victim and how dare anybody suggest that she’s ever done anything unthoughtful towards people of colour! I’ve lost interest—they don’t want change because they frankly don’t care. They’d rather be comfortable.

Which brings me to the actual point. The idea that the Republican Party would ever nominate a black trans pansexual is in itself totally disingenuous—that is more what I was getting at. I don’t apologize for making that claim. I don’t hang around people who think sexism is an imaginary “excuse.” Sue me.
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SirWoodbury
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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2019, 10:58:34 am »
« Edited: June 13, 2019, 11:42:02 am by SirWoodbury »

How much did sexism play a role in the election? It still looks like there is a problem with Woman candidates this cycle. You can't deny there are some voter uncomfortable with Woman leading.

On the hand being a woman could of been a plus. There were some voters excited for a woman president.
Yes, I believe Clinton's loss was somewhat affected by sexism.
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Celes
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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2019, 11:11:25 am »

You wouldn't find the percentage of sexists in a room by asking everyone "would you vote for a hypothetical perfect dream candidate who just so happens to be a woman?"
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Ilhan Apologist
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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2019, 11:37:58 am »

You wouldn't find the percentage of sexists in a room by asking everyone "would you vote for a hypothetical perfect dream candidate who just so happens to be a woman?"
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2019, 01:23:56 pm »

You wouldn't find the percentage of sexists in a room by asking everyone "would you vote for a hypothetical perfect dream candidate who just so happens to be a woman?"

While I agree, leaving it up to the left's discretion is not exactly a satisfying method, either. Wink
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VeniceItaly
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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2019, 03:28:58 pm »

The point is, no one will say, and few will even realize, that gendered perceptions played a major role in how they viewed Hillary Clinton and responded to her candidacy. Progressives make an effort to engage in considering how the intersection of identity influenced things whereas people on the right tend not to want to have that conversation—Venice Italy does it himself when he throws out a pretty unlikely example just for theatrics and then asserts, basically, that people wouldn’t see or care about these differences and that invoking the “isms” is “an excuse.” That’s total willful blindness.

And since, as I’ve said, people don’t tend to knowingly act out of discriminatory instincts, by the time the rough and tumble was over, these folks would just “have a bad feeling” about this person and stay home. VeniceItaly could very well be an exception, but when you cast your lot in with ignorant bigots and racists, you reap what you sow.

Call it a bubble, but I do not choose to surround myself with people who support politicians who debase and put down groups of marginalized people. If you vote GOP, that’s what you are doing whether it’s your intention or not. And it’s way too common that these people make excuses for themselves and others for the side effects of “what ends up happening” to minorities than actually taking responsibility and making a change. “The people I’d otherwise have” don’t stick around when you actually demand what is required for equitability. My aunt isn’t a racist until someone gently asks her to reconsider using the term “cotton pickin’.” Then she’s a victim and how dare anybody suggest that she’s ever done anything unthoughtful towards people of colour! I’ve lost interest—they don’t want change because they frankly don’t care. They’d rather be comfortable.

Which brings me to the actual point. The idea that the Republican Party would ever nominate a black trans pansexual is in itself totally disingenuous—that is more what I was getting at. I don’t apologize for making that claim. I don’t hang around people who think sexism is an imaginary “excuse.” Sue me.
Nobody thought about her gender when voting against her. Also didn't she call african-american youths "super predators" back in the 90s? People thought about her flip-flopping, her demeaning comment towards middle american working class, her email scandal. Sexism played no significant role and ill say it again, sexism is an excuse for her running a terrible campaign and excuse for the fact she is a terrible person. More people voted for her because she was a woman rather than people voting against her because she is a woman. Personally I would be ashamed if our first female president was someone as horrendous and opportunistic as she was and I'm glad she won't be our first female president. 
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HisGrace
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2019, 10:09:21 pm »

It didn't help, but she also ran a terrible campaign. The result was so close it is theoretically possible that a male who ran an identical campaign could have won, just as Clinton would have still won while being a woman if she'd run a better campaign. Namely if she hadn't been over confident and neglected the rust belt.
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Wazza stands with Sanchez
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« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2019, 08:33:48 pm »

The problem with this question is we're talking about a national politician. If Joe the Democrat from Ohio changed his vote or stayed home in 2016 entirely based on her gender then that could be construed as "being a victim of sexism". However, for every Joe there was a Becky who voted for Hillary due to gender as well. So overall it either balanced out or was a net benefit for her anyway. It did not cost her the election and there she wasn't a victim of any organised sexist campaign.

Clinton lost because her hawkishness, her decades of political baggage and her comments regarding Coal mining and "deplorables" were successfully exploited by the Trump campaign. The people who are spouting the "muh sexist" bs are the usual suspects who are using this as an excuse to vent about the oh so evil and horrible, knuckle dragging, Middle American whites.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2019, 08:47:44 pm »

The problem with this question is we're talking about a national politician. If Joe the Democrat from Ohio changed his vote or stayed home in 2016 entirely based on her gender then that could be construed as "being a victim of sexism". However, for every Joe there was a Becky who voted for Hillary due to gender as well. So overall it either balanced out or was a net benefit for her anyway. It did not cost her the election and there she wasn't a victim of any organised sexist campaign.

Clinton lost because her hawkishness, her decades of political baggage and her comments regarding Coal mining and "deplorables" were successfully exploited by the Trump campaign. The people who are spouting the "muh sexist" bs are the usual suspects who are using this as an excuse to vent about the oh so evil and horrible, knuckle dragging, Middle American whites.

Press X to doubt.
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Koharu
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« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2019, 12:38:39 pm »

Yes.
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Wolverine22
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« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2019, 01:52:51 pm »

All those “She’s a c***” shirts that popped up at Trump rallies have to count for something.
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Pandaguineapig
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« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2019, 06:24:55 pm »

No, in fact Hillary Clinton was handed more things without having earned them than any other politician in recent memory;

- Used her Husband's status to sit on numerous corporate boards while he was governor of Arkansas despite limited experience.

- was given a leading role in the failed healthcare attempt by her husband despite having no qualifications whatsoever to do so.

- Carpetbagged to a state she had no connections to whatsoever after the New York Democratic party pushed aside more qualified candidates for Senate.

- Despite having few if any accomplishments in her years as a senator, was recruited to run for president based entirely off of nostalgia from Bill's presidency, after blowing a huge lead was given SOS by Obama to get her support after a brutal primary.

- After a tenure as SOS that included far more photo-ops than actual accomplishments (unless you consider the Russia reset and the sale of large scale Uranium stocks to Russia to be accomplishments) had the DNC rig the primary for her in 2016.

- Despite having much of the media, big tech, and the business establishment firmly behind her, she manages to blow a 15 point general election lead to a former reality TV star
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2019, 09:14:12 pm »

I don't know about nationally, but her being a woman was able to save her in some areas where I lived in the minds of reluctant voters because they wanted to vote for a female
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Lfromnj stands with Sanchez.
lfromnj
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« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2019, 06:50:05 pm »

Yes and no. As Sanchez said her "bitchy" personality was the main reason but a bitchy man can get away with it. A bitchy or crazy women does horrible in US Politics. See bachmann and Tenney .
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2019, 11:09:19 am »

Yes and no. As Sanchez said her "bitchy" personality was the main reason but a bitchy man can get away with it. A bitchy or crazy women does horrible in US Politics. See bachmann and Tenney .

Name a woman who does not get called “bitchy” when they enter politics. Roll Eyes
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MarkD
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« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2019, 02:52:42 pm »
« Edited: August 16, 2019, 03:59:06 am by MarkD »

Quote
Name a woman who does not get called “bitchy” when they enter politics.

I can hardly hear whatever person in the whole country is whispering about all of the women in politics. But I doubt that Susan Collins has ever been described as bitchy. Or Nancy Kassebaum. There's Tina Smith, although she's fairly new to politics. But again, I can't even begin to describe how many specific women in politics about whom I have heard anything derogatory said.
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2019, 07:52:26 pm »

In a way I would argue she might have benefited from being a woman.
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