Israeli politics general thread: 2019 and beyond - the dawn of the monarchy (user search)
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  Israeli politics general thread: 2019 and beyond - the dawn of the monarchy (search mode)
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Author Topic: Israeli politics general thread: 2019 and beyond - the dawn of the monarchy  (Read 2643 times)
DavidB.
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« on: April 11, 2019, 05:50:45 AM »

I'm trying to word this in a way that doesn't make me come across as a problematic Gentile, but I think the Israeli Right is playing a dangerous game in that it constantly seems to attack the diaspora as lily-livered (or even self-hating) even though most of the diaspora are Zionists with affinity for the idea of the Israeli state. Israel as a state isn't supposed to be just "a country with lots of Jews in it" but act as a sort of representative of all Jewish people. I feel like a lot of Jews - not just the likes of Gerald Kaufmans or even Jewdas-  are genuinely uncomfortable with Netanyahu becoming synonymous with their identity, especially as in certain countries the issue has become incredibly partisan.

What I am trying to say is that, for Israel to just not care about the diaspora would be an abdication of a lot of soft power. I would wager that most American Jews, if forced to chose between their affinity with the Democratic Party and a distant nation that implies they're a bunch of effette self-haters will probably go with the former tbh.
Diaspora Jews simply tend to have a completely different outlook on things than Israeli Jews. Being part or not being part of the Israeli story of "overcoming" diaspora and coming home is pretty decisive for one's worldview. And diaspora Jews are so integrated in their societies (and yet still very Jewish, otherwise this issue wouldn't have been on the table either) that we tend to adopt the framework of thinking prevalent in our countries and, more specifically, in our own "spheres" within these countries. At this point, the essence of what it means to be Jewish has become something completely different for different communities.

Which is all fine. But when push comes to shove, I won't be there getting dressed in a uniform and going to the Gaza border. Might post something on FB about it from my comfortable chair here in Europe, but that's about it.

I agree that American Jews are likely to pick the Democratic Party and liberalism over their support for Israel. It's even inaccurate to say they pick liberalism over Judaism, because everything they do fits with their understanding of being Jewish (which is terribly wrong and dangerous imo, but that's irrelevant). But this rift precedes Netanyahu and will be there after him, as it is rooted in completely different types of thinking. Netanyahu exacerbates it by explicitly teaming up with the Republicans, which was perhaps the most foolish move in his political career seen from an Israeli national interest perspective. But I think it is inevitable in a world in which politics is increasingly defined by the battle between those who think globally and want national identities to be fluid on the one hand and those who think nationally on the other hand. The U.S. is almost bound to be on one side given its history and demographic makeup, Israel is bound to be on the other side given its history and its challenges.

I think an Israel based on the Israeli understanding of what it means to be Jewish is more important than the soft power (which I think is overstated in the first place) that comes from not alienating left-wing American Reform Jews. I don't think Israelis should compromise on these things with Americans, as Israelis have to live with the consequences and these are fundamental issues.
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DavidB.
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Posts: 13,617
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E: 0.58, S: 4.26


« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 11:14:51 AM »

The Israeli right are racial imperialists who want to rule over and deny rights to non-Jews in their territory.
This is a weird argument. The Israeli right is absolutely ethnonationalist (just like the Zionist left) but doesn't particularly care about "race". Haredim sometimes do, but religious Zionists, the group most inclined to prioritize territorial maximization, don't care about race. The word tribe would perhaps be more fitting here.

The "want to rule over" part is also incorrect. It is seen as an inconvenience. People who support annexing J&S tend to support expulsion.

Israel is a strange body in the Middle East that eventually could be ejected
Cool terminology, carrying no connotation with regard to the way Jews have historically been treated whatsoever.

People like you are the reason Jews know Israel is needed.
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DavidB.
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Posts: 13,617
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 11:51:00 AM »
« Edited: April 12, 2019, 12:05:12 PM by DavidB. »

The only way in which it is a "strange body" is because it is a society in which people are free, because it is a democracy, because things are invented there, because despite the fact that there was barely anything in the ground people - Jews - made the desert blossom and created a successful, prosperous and happy society there, a society contributing more than its fair share to civilization. This is the difference with the remainder of the Middle East.

People like you are so blinded that you seek to destroy this one point of light in an ocean of darkness - partly by a romantic, naive love for that darkness, partly by that same old type of prejudice against that "strange body" that your own people successfully managed to expulse in 1492, the type of prejudice that 75 years ago made it clear that Israel is not just a nice-to-have but a must-have for the Jewish people to be safe anywhere in this world.

For all your antifascist posturing you sure seem to like Nazi analogies. So get off your high horse and start being honest about your priorities in the Middle East.

The irony, of course, is also that Israelis keep re-electing Netanyahu and the right for an important part because they know too many people in the world think like you do and want Israel destroyed as a Jewish state and safe haven for Jews. This is why a campaign slogan like "Netanyahu: right-wing. Strong. Successful" is actually successful.
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