Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Screw Sansa. If she ends up on the throne or ends up living while Dany dies, I'm gonna be pissed. She'd be dead if it weren't for Daenerys.

If it wasn't for Daenerys, the White Walkers never would have gotten a zombie dragon, and they'd still be stuck north of the Wall, no?  I think Sansa would still be alive in that case.

Oh please. Putting the zombie dragon aside (which, btw, is entirely Jon's fault for thinking he could reason with someone as morally depraved and two-faced as Cersei), the North would've been WIPED OUT in five minutes without *checks clipboard* Dany's dragons, unsullied, siege weapons, dothraki, food, and dragon glass.

[Blue3]

I don't think the characters are being dumb (except I think they should have scouted to spot Euron first). For the most part, they were acting in-character.

Are we really saying "this is dumb" or "this is not how I wanted the show to end"?

I thought this was a good episode. But I feel really bad for Missandei, and Rhaegal.

I just don't get why Sansa and the rest still distrust Daenerys so much, and why Varys/Tyrion think Jon would be better. Yes, Daenerys is a foreigner and a Targaryen, but Sansa isn't showing her how she could earn her trust, not even after the battle. Yes, Jon wouldn't ever decide to use a dragon against King's Landing, but he makes a lot of incompetent choices, and dragons aren't indiscriminate bombs... Daenerys could literally focus all that firepower on just military targets.

But I wouldn't say this is the characters acting dumb. Just paranoid, and they're making their fears come true. Sansa paranoid about Daenerys. Daenerys paranoid about Sansa. Tyrion and Varys paranoid about Daenerys's judgment. But they've been foreshadowing this for a while. Even before Tyrion showed up in Meereen, Jorah was talking her out of using more brutal methods before he was exiled, as was Tyrion in Meereen at the end of season 6 and against last season when she emerged from the cave with Jon to the news that Euron had destroyed the Greyjoy fleet and taken the Sand Snakes. It's been foreshadowed for years. All the way back to her having her dragons tear-apart a random master as an example, and before that with crucifying them. And even though Daenerys killing the Masters of Astapor with her new Unsullied army was awesome, it was still rather brutal, and it was all founded on her lying and breaking her promise.

And let's not forget this does go back to some of the original ideas (well some are definitely out), especially with Sansa and her loyalty.

I think how things go down in Episode 4 will be very close to how things go down in the books. It's jumbled up, but some things will stay the same.
Think of how Euron is making way for the Battle of Meereen, in the books.
Think of how the Golden Company has come to Westeros, in the books.
Think of how Varys decides to go with an "Aegon Targaryen," in the books.
Think of how Daenerys is going paranoid, in the books.





Update on the survivors:

Main Characters:
Daenerys
Jon
Sansa
Arya
Bran
Tyrion
Jaime
Cersei

Daenerys's advisors:
Varys
Grey Worm

Jon/Sansa/Arya allies:
Davos
Brienne
Pod
Gendry
The Hound
Tormund
Sam
Gilly (+ kid)
Royce

Cersei's "allies":
Euron Greyjoy
The Mountain
Qyburn
Harry Strickland
Bronn

Other Houses that could be shown:
Yara Greyjoy
Edmure Tully
Robyn Arryn

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Because the merits or otherwise of both the books and television serial have been discussed, an alternative take on both, presented for discussion.

[dead0man]

I thought it was a pretty good episode most of the way through, but obviously Cersei would have just slaughtered them all at the end, right?

indeed

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

this too

The physics of the super ballista don't make any sense.  Say they could make something powerful enough to shoot a small tree through a dragon's skull at 100 meters that is standing still, I'll buy that.  But to hit a flying dragon a mile away, from a wooden ship?  The energy required, the whole "aiming" issue, which really isn't an issue at all because there is no way they would fly straight after a couple hundred feet (if it could even go that far), just silly...plus, I'm pretty sure she could fly a large arc around them faster than they can turn the ships, so flank 'em?  What was the point of the angry charge, dodge and then fly away? Hit them why they reload?  Go super high and just rain dragon fire on them from 2 miles up?

[Tender Branson]

In that last episode:



https://gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-accidentally-leaves-modern-coffee-cup-o-1834545322

LOL.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

In that last episode:



https://gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-accidentally-leaves-modern-coffee-cup-o-1834545322

LOL.

Ehhh...it happens

[Gustaf]

Man, this show has become such dogs**t. Like Jesus. What a betrayal of the original plot.

[RINO Tom]

DECENT enough episode once you have accepted the dumbed down type of show we are getting from now on.

[DaWN]

I'm honestly kind of bloody sick of this show now. The decline in quality over the past season or two has been so steep, it's like the writers who did so well establishing good characters and stories in the past just completely forgot how to do so. I'm sick of the manufactured conflict, the bad character motivations, the ENDLESS self-congratulatory wankfests (like, seriously, we had a whole episode of it, did we really need to dedicate the first half hour of this one to it as well) and most of all that they literally cannot decide on a progression for some of these characters. Arya, Jaime, Sansa, f!ck, even Dany and Jon at this point are literally changing motivation from episode to episode.

And why are the episodes suddenly so long? They used to be a good solid 45 minutes and now every one is like an hour and a quarter, why the f!ck is that necessary?

[Gustaf]

I'm honestly kind of bloody sick of this show now. The decline in quality over the past season or two has been so steep, it's like the writers who did so well establishing good characters and stories in the past just completely forgot how to do so. I'm sick of the manufactured conflict, the bad character motivations, the ENDLESS self-congratulatory wankfests (like, seriously, we had a whole episode of it, did we really need to dedicate the first half hour of this one to it as well) and most of all that they literally cannot decide on a progression for some of these characters. Arya, Jaime, Sansa, f!ck, even Dany and Jon at this point are literally changing motivation from episode to episode.

And why are the episodes suddenly so long? They used to be a good solid 45 minutes and now every one is like an hour and a quarter, why the f!ck is that necessary?

I mean, the first seasons they were adapting a plot and dialogue they could lift straight out of the books. It's no coincidence that once they ran out of source material and had to come up with their own stuff it all went downhill quickly. This actually isn't even surprising once you consider the decisions they made to deviate from the books in the first place, which were generally pretty bad ones.

[DaWN]

I'm honestly kind of bloody sick of this show now. The decline in quality over the past season or two has been so steep, it's like the writers who did so well establishing good characters and stories in the past just completely forgot how to do so. I'm sick of the manufactured conflict, the bad character motivations, the ENDLESS self-congratulatory wankfests (like, seriously, we had a whole episode of it, did we really need to dedicate the first half hour of this one to it as well) and most of all that they literally cannot decide on a progression for some of these characters. Arya, Jaime, Sansa, f!ck, even Dany and Jon at this point are literally changing motivation from episode to episode.

And why are the episodes suddenly so long? They used to be a good solid 45 minutes and now every one is like an hour and a quarter, why the f!ck is that necessary?

I mean, the first seasons they were adapting a plot and dialogue they could lift straight out of the books. It's no coincidence that once they ran out of source material and had to come up with their own stuff it all went downhill quickly. This actually isn't even surprising once you consider the decisions they made to deviate from the books in the first place, which were generally pretty bad ones.

Yeah I'd forgotten about that That's probably it. Say what you want about GRRM but he knows how to write a compelling story with good characters.

[Senator Incitatus]

The speeches from Bronn and Varys were some of the better political writing on the show. The complaints are just from people who thought Daenerys was their #QWEEN.

[dead0man]

the internet hates the end of everything

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The speeches from Bronn and Varys were some of the better political writing on the show. The complaints are just from people who thought Daenerys was their #QWEEN.

The one Bronn scene had me in stitches. Absolutely hilarious and, presumably, correct.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

the internet hates the end of everything

Nah. True fans just hate the sh*tty job done by D&D.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

I mean, she freed thousands of slaves. Not sure how she's a psychopath when the only "evil" thing she's done so far was justifiably burning the Tarlys.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The speeches from Bronn and Varys were some of the better political writing on the show. The complaints are just from people who thought Daenerys was their #QWEEN.

The one Bronn scene had me in stitches. Absolutely hilarious and, presumably, correct.

After that scene one could hope the closing words of the final episode will be:
"All hail His Grace, Bronn of House Blackwater, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm".

[Blue3]

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

I mean, she freed thousands of slaves. Not sure how she's a psychopath when the only "evil" thing she's done so far was justifiably burning the Tarlys.

Well there was crucifying the Masters, and randomly choosing one who might or might not be innocent of working with the Sons of the Harpy to be torn apart by her dragons.

[Mr. Morden]

So do people think that's the last we see of Sam, Gilly, and Tormund, or will some subset of them be back for the finale?

Also, I'm still wondering if the demise of the White Walkers means the show is totally done with the  supernatural angle, or if there might still be some supernatural twist at the end.  The one hint in this episode is when Davos muses about what the Lord of Light really wants.  Will there still be some kind of LoL witchcraft coming into play at the end?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The one Bronn scene had me in stitches. Absolutely hilarious and, presumably, correct.

After that scene one could hope the closing words of the final episode will be:
"All hail His Grace, Bronn of House Blackwater, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm".

One can only hope. My preferred dark horse involves Sansa in combination with either Tyrion or hte Hound.

So do people think that's the last we see of Sam, Gilly, and Tormund, or will some subset of them be back for the finale?

Also, I'm still wondering if the demise of the White Walkers means the show is totally done with the  supernatural angle, or if there might still be some supernatural twist at the end.  The one hint in this episode is when Davos muses about what the Lord of Light really wants.  Will there still be some kind of LoL witchcraft coming into play at the end?

I don't know about "magic" directly, but I would hope for something that helps to tie up the theological/mystical/supernatural aspect of the show to put the followers of the Lord of Light and the threat of the White Walkers into a larger framework. While Davos could foreshadow some grander explanation, I have a feeling it'll remain a metaphorical expression of the audience's frustration.

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

I mean, she freed thousands of slaves. Not sure how she's a psychopath when the only "evil" thing she's done so far was justifiably burning the Tarlys.

Well there was crucifying the Masters, and randomly choosing one who might or might not be innocent of working with the Sons of the Harpy to be torn apart by her dragons.

I can't think of a particular act off the top of my head, but the insistence on her right to rule as a monarch combined with her one-time possession of what are essentially three nukes (which she held and holds a monopoly on) are in my mind reason enough for concern.

[GoTfan]

I thought it was a pretty good episode most of the way through, but obviously Cersei would have just slaughtered them all at the end, right?

indeed

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

this too

The physics of the super ballista don't make any sense.  Say they could make something powerful enough to shoot a small tree through a dragon's skull at 100 meters that is standing still, I'll buy that.  But to hit a flying dragon a mile away, from a wooden ship?  The energy required, the whole "aiming" issue, which really isn't an issue at all because there is no way they would fly straight after a couple hundred feet (if it could even go that far), just silly...plus, I'm pretty sure she could fly a large arc around them faster than they can turn the ships, so flank 'em?  What was the point of the angry charge, dodge and then fly away? Hit them why they reload?  Go super high and just rain dragon fire on them from 2 miles up?

Do we know the range of dragon fire?

[Middle-aged Europe]

So, it is a foregone conclusion that Missandei's murder will make Daenerys go full tyrant, leading to Tyrion conspiring with Sansa to oust her?

[Frodo]

It is safe to say that Daenerys Targaryen will go full Mad Queen when even Emilia Clarke (who is playing her) says she will. 

[RINO Tom]

The one Bronn scene had me in stitches. Absolutely hilarious and, presumably, correct.

After that scene one could hope the closing words of the final episode will be:
"All hail His Grace, Bronn of House Blackwater, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm".

One can only hope. My preferred dark horse involves Sansa in combination with either Tyrion or hte Hound.

So do people think that's the last we see of Sam, Gilly, and Tormund, or will some subset of them be back for the finale?

Also, I'm still wondering if the demise of the White Walkers means the show is totally done with the  supernatural angle, or if there might still be some supernatural twist at the end.  The one hint in this episode is when Davos muses about what the Lord of Light really wants.  Will there still be some kind of LoL witchcraft coming into play at the end?

I don't know about "magic" directly, but I would hope for something that helps to tie up the theological/mystical/supernatural aspect of the show to put the followers of the Lord of Light and the threat of the White Walkers into a larger framework. While Davos could foreshadow some grander explanation, I have a feeling it'll remain a metaphorical expression of the audience's frustration.

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.

I mean, she freed thousands of slaves. Not sure how she's a psychopath when the only "evil" thing she's done so far was justifiably burning the Tarlys.

Well there was crucifying the Masters, and randomly choosing one who might or might not be innocent of working with the Sons of the Harpy to be torn apart by her dragons.

I can't think of a particular act off the top of my head, but the insistence on her right to rule as a monarch combined with her one-time possession of what are essentially three nukes (which she held and holds a monopoly on) are in my mind reason enough for concern.

The last sentence is so true.   D&D were on TV the other day and said "we're not going to answer that" when asked if the White Walkers were for sure done in the storyline.  The sad thing is, their thought process probably was, "oh, this will be hilarious, everyone will freak out!"  They don't even understand why people are frustrated with the abandonment of the (as you so aptly put it) "cosmic" elements and themes of the stories for the sake of two nobles fighting for the chair like every other time in history.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

So, it is a foregone conclusion that Missandei's murder will make Daenerys go full tyrant, leading to Tyrion conspiring with Sansa to oust her?

This would be ideal.