Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[DINGO Joe]

“prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head.”--book Jorah. 

I'm not really all that bothered by the prophecy issues.

The problem was the Night King never talked.  Not even in Bran's head.  I guess we'll never know what all those symbols were about.  Unless there's some Night King denouement to come.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

So I've been rewatching the series for a few weeks and I'm of the mind that it seems like there are a million story threads being trod underfoot owing to the needs of our "final battle" scenario. The religious aspect in particular I feel like has been completely left by the wayside since Stannis was defeated. It seemed like earlier seasons were building toward something cosmic. After all, our protagonist has been raised from the dead, but that matters nought when he gets to shack up with Danerys.

The show is nothing but generic fantasy schlock now. Which, like, if that's what the average viewer wants, then great. But it's terribly disappointing artistically.

Well I'm still hoping the Lord of Light keeps GRRM alive to finish the books with his version of the story.

Martin has told them all the major plot points. D and D mentioned they've known it was Arya for three years. People seem to either forget about or wholesale ignore this.

The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. He was invented by D&D because they thought TV viewers needed a single character as the face of the White Walkers.

Either way, GRRM was supposed to have told them the major plot points before Season 1 was filmed, and they came up with Arya as the one to kill the Night King 3 years ago.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

isn't that why we fell in love in the first place, they didn't give us what we expected?

No, you f***ing idiot. The dumbest hack writer in the world can write an "unexpected" twist.

ASOIAF was unique because it was a brutal, realistic fantasy setting where actions had consequences, heroes didn't have plot armour, deaths were deaths and not heroic, battles and wars didn't solve anything, political intrigue was petty squabbling, there weren't any faceless motivationless chaotic evil baddies etc. etc.. Ned Stark wasn't killed just to make a unexpected twist for cheap shock value, but to make a point about the world of Westeros and the world we live in. All of that is out the window by now, the show is generic fantasy fanservice, dick jokes and cool shots of dragons.

If it was a generic fantasy show, Jon would have killed the Night King for no other reason than 'prophecy says so'.

Sure. Who said I wanted Jon to kill the Night King? I'm actually fine with Arya killing him, only the way it happened is absurdly stupid on multiple levels and makes the concept of the show's main threat utterly comical in hindsight.

Not that Jon and Arya killing the Night King is even mutually exclusive since they could have teamed up, like Jon could have died trying to and then Arya delivers the killing blow or whatever. Zero point in keeping Jon around anyway after the threat is gone. But that's not even my main beef.

[GoTfan]

“prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head.”--book Jorah. 

I'm not really all that bothered by the prophecy issues.

The problem was the Night King never talked.  Not even in Bran's head.  I guess we'll never know what all those symbols were about.  Unless there's some Night King denouement to come.

He didn't need to. One thing people tend to forget is that villains don't always need complex motivations. There is in fact an argument to be made the NK is nothing but a tool, nd the tool's purpose was to wipe out humanity.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

He didn't need to. One thing people tend to forget is that villains don't always need complex motivations. There is in fact an argument to be made the NK is nothing but a tool, nd the tool's purpose was to wipe out humanity.

Lmao. As I already said, one of the points of ASOIAF was that it was a fantasy setting where evil-for-the-sake-of-evil villains don't exist. GRRM specifically set out to write a Tolkein-inspired story which criticised Tolkien's moral simplicity.

Like, if you're a dumbo who doesn't care about that stuff and only wants to see cool battle scenes, then whatever I guess. But for people who care about the thematic consistency of the setting then the direction which the show has went is pretty disappointing.

[GoTfan]

He didn't need to. One thing people tend to forget is that villains don't always need complex motivations. There is in fact an argument to be made the NK is nothing but a tool, nd the tool's purpose was to wipe out humanity.

Lmao. As I already said, one of the points of ASOIAF was that it was a fantasy setting where evil-for-the-sake-of-evil villains don't exist. GRRM specifically set out to write a Tolkein-inspired story which criticised Tolkien's moral simplicity.

Like, if you're a dumbo who doesn't care about that stuff and only wants to see cool battle scenes, then whatever I guess. But for people who care about the thematic consistency of the setting then the direction which the show has went is pretty disappointing.

Thanks for calling me a dumbo and not addressing anything I said.

The Night King is a tool, not a person.

[GoTfan]

Just got emailed some pretty detailed death threats for saying I loved the episode.

[dead0man]

Just got emailed some pretty detailed death threats for saying I loved the episode.

from someone here or...?

[GoTfan]

Just got emailed some pretty detailed death threats for saying I loved the episode.

from someone here or...?

No, not from someone here. But you can take your pit of the internet cesspool.

This makes the amount of fandoms I've pissed off now include Star Wars, Vikings, Game of Thrones, Riverdale and Marvel. Really am racking up quite the list there.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

So I've been rewatching the series for a few weeks and I'm of the mind that it seems like there are a million story threads being trod underfoot owing to the needs of our "final battle" scenario. The religious aspect in particular I feel like has been completely left by the wayside since Stannis was defeated. It seemed like earlier seasons were building toward something cosmic. After all, our protagonist has been raised from the dead, but that matters nought when he gets to shack up with Danerys.

The show is nothing but generic fantasy schlock now. Which, like, if that's what the average viewer wants, then great. But it's terribly disappointing artistically.

Well I'm still hoping the Lord of Light keeps GRRM alive to finish the books with his version of the story.

Martin has told them all the major plot points. D and D mentioned they've known it was Arya for three years. People seem to either forget about or wholesale ignore this.

The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. He was invented by D&D because they thought TV viewers needed a single character as the face of the White Walkers.

Either way, GRRM was supposed to have told them the major plot points before Season 1 was filmed, and they came up with Arya as the one to kill the Night King 3 years ago.

- 1) GRRM has told them a number of additional plot points over the years, some as recently as three years ago

- 2) D&D were right, it is better in a visual medium to have a leader for the Others and the Night’s King served his narrative purpose quite effectively on the show.

He didn't need to. One thing people tend to forget is that villains don't always need complex motivations. There is in fact an argument to be made the NK is nothing but a tool, nd the tool's purpose was to wipe out humanity.

Lmao. As I already said, one of the points of ASOIAF was that it was a fantasy setting where evil-for-the-sake-of-evil villains don't exist. GRRM specifically set out to write a Tolkein-inspired story which criticised Tolkien's moral simplicity.

Like, if you're a dumbo who doesn't care about that stuff and only wants to see cool battle scenes, then whatever I guess. But for people who care about the thematic consistency of the setting then the direction which the show has went is pretty disappointing.

If GRRM doesn’t do evil-for-the-sake-of-evil villains then how do you explain Joffrey, Ramsay Snow, The Others, Littlefinger, Euron Greyjoy, Vargo Hoat, Qyburn, Walder Frey and his family, Roose Bolton, etc, etc, etc?

[Canis]

So I've been rewatching the series for a few weeks and I'm of the mind that it seems like there are a million story threads being trod underfoot owing to the needs of our "final battle" scenario. The religious aspect in particular I feel like has been completely left by the wayside since Stannis was defeated. It seemed like earlier seasons were building toward something cosmic. After all, our protagonist has been raised from the dead, but that matters nought when he gets to shack up with Danerys.

The show is nothing but generic fantasy schlock now. Which, like, if that's what the average viewer wants, then great. But it's terribly disappointing artistically.

Well I'm still hoping the Lord of Light keeps GRRM alive to finish the books with his version of the story.

Martin has told them all the major plot points. D and D mentioned they've known it was Arya for three years. People seem to either forget about or wholesale ignore this.

Wait, so you're saying that GRRM told D&D that Arya was supposed to be the one to kill the Night King?

I doubt Arya kills the night king in the books for 2 reasons
1. Arya never meets Melisandre in the books
2. Theirs no night king in the books lol

[RINO Tom]

Okay, so much to say here, but...

1) I get and admire being positive about the direction a show goes in.  I am hardly ever a harsh critic of a show I love, usually because there is only so much left of that show.  That holds especially true for Game of Thrones (though GoTfan's apologism is nauseating, I admit).  However, don't do mental gymnastics to rationalize how someone who didn't like that ending is the one who is falling into tropey bullshlt; that's ing ridiculous.  That episode, while amazing for most of its runtime, was the definition of dumbing stuff down for the casual viewer.  Any know-it-all argument about how Cersei is this complex villain and people who don't like the Night King being defeated this early are just, like, zombie fans who don't appreciate the intrigue of the Iron Throne is so ridiculous it doesn't merit arguing.  Go take a look at YouTube, Instagram and Facebook comment sections ... I'm willing to bet the average IQ of people happy with defeating the White Walkers in Episode 3 is less than half of those who see it for the rushed wrap-up it is.  "It'S cAlLeD gAmE oF tHrOnEs, NoT gAmE oF zOmBiEs."

2) It is so immensely lazy to assume that wanting a final showdown with the Night King instead of Cersei plays into a fantasy trope.  Why, because he's not human?  ing absurd.  What we are going to get is EXACTLY a fantasy trope: glorifying the Throne and system that has oppressed the background characters of this series that starve and struggle to get by while our preferred aristocrats ride off into battle for glory fairytale style.  I am going to bet that GRRM the conscientious objector is not going to let it go down like this.  Before some parrot starts telling me how D&D "got the major plot points from George," they got "broad strokes" ala they will defeat the White Walkers, and ____ will rule Westeros after and things like that.  I will bet my life that Arya doesn't show up ninja style to stab the Night King with a Valyrian Steel dagger minutes after he survived ing dragon fire!  And again, Parrots, I know there is no "Night King" in the book, but there still could be eventually, and even if there isn't substitute "Night King" with "White Walkers" and the point still stands.  Which plays into my next point...

3) The White Walkers (or Others) are what made this story special.  Not because they were soooo spookey or soooo cool or whatever.  They made it special because they were a uniquely complex and mysterious villain for fantasy, AND they were always there on the side.  They served the purpose of getting the humans in our story to realize how TRIVIAL the battles and intrigue of the show actually were ... regardless of your opinion on this latest episode, absolutely nobody can deny that this is what GRRM has been doing for a while now.  The show planted these seeds and then, what?  Killed the Night King with no backstory, no motive (no, Bran's explanation absolutely does not count, and George's is bound to be much, much better) and no resolution?  Why did his White Walkers generals even come?  They did absolutely nothing.  Spare me the "keeping it a mystery" BS, too.  How many times do you need to hear the absolute knuckleheads D&D talk on the Inside the Episode segment to STILL believe they are these great storytellers??  The show foreshadowed so, so much only to throw a hollow, ill conceived curveball at the eleventh hour all for the sake of shock value.  George is on record of saying this is a horrible way to write stories, and he is clear that even if people had guessed something he was planning he would stick with it since he already put down the foreshadowing and plot development.  "They knew it was Arya for three years!"  Do you guys realize they were probably filming Season 7 already three years ago?!  This isn't some brilliantly developed plot line ... it's not a plot line at all.  They wanted to wrap it up so the final battle could be for the Throne, and that's what they did.  Quickly, sloppily and badly.

3) D&D start with the end in mind and work their way there.  Now, each writer/producer/whatever does this to an extent, but GRRM is sure to not let it dictate what his characters would do.  We watched HOURS of Rob's battle planning only for him to shockingly die.  We watched a TON of Ned Stark plot building just to kill him when we were most invested.  Why?  Because that's real life ... certain people aren't handpicked as too important to no longer matter in the blink of an eye.  Who died last episode??  Chopped liver is who ... Theon??  Jorah??  ED?!  Lol, who didn't see all these coming?  Again, if you can't see that they just wanted to rid the series of the White Walkers storyline, I don't know what to say.  Then they throw in little hedge-their-bets lines like the exchange between Jon and Beric beyond the Wall.  "Kill him, and we kill them all."  "You don't understand."  Uh, what doesn't he understand, Jon??  Sounds like he was 100% right, but they just wanted a scene that made us wonder if there was something more mystical and exciting that they'd have to do to vanquish the Night King ... nope, lol.

4) The Night King was in 3/4 of an episode.  Inexcusable, regardless of whom you thought the final villain should be.  If you want to wrap up the WW threat by Episode 4 and make the final battle for the Iron Throne, fine ... bad decision, but fine ... you NEED to put more time into wrapping it up.  Look at the first three episodes from a D&D perspective and try not to be let down ... "Episode 1, we'll do reunions ... check ... Episode 2 will be pre-battle goodbyes ... check ... Episode 3, they'll fight the battle and win ... check."  Guess what was EASILY the best episode, possibly of the series?  Yeah, Episode 2, where the show wasn't trying to rush anything (admittedly because they couldn't).

The bottom line is the story did an awesome job of developing the theme that maybe you actually SHOULDN'T care about the Iron Throne, and it did it brilliantly over several years.  It put in the time and story development to make us realize that the system Dany can't seem to see beyond despite all of her tough talk about breaking the wheel is fundamentally broken, and GRRM used the threat of the White Walkers to demonstrate this.  I very much believe the books will give them a more fulfilling motivation besides the painfully lazy D&D "AI gone rogue" spin or the overused "pure evil" line.  To the poster who said "Well what about Joffrey and Ramsay!!!!" one was a incest-born kid who was RAISED to think he was above everyone else ... he's a product of his upbringing ... and the other was a bastard whose father raped his mother and was a hard man with no love to show his son.  Why do you think Ramsay turned out the way he did?  Again, D&D were smart enough to know they couldn't make the Night King pure evil, so they went with that he's a machine on a program ... disappointing choice, but they could have made it work.  Don't make him ing smile up at Dany after surviving dragon fire, though, if you want us to think of him as simply an unfortunate, death-bringing product of his creation.  They wrote scenes for shock value and to fulfill cliches, and this was a perfect example.  The White Walkers were mindless killing machines when D&D needed them to be, and they were more complex than that other times (like letting Sam live north of the Wall and the NK showing a special interest in Jon earlier in the series).

They scrapped it all.  I love GoT, and I will be tuned in every week until it's over.  Heck, I made this thread, didn't I?  However, your blinders are THICK if you can't see why a fan would be disappointed with this "conclusion" to the show's greatest plot.  Tell yourself what you want, but this isn't how it's going down in the books.  The dreams, prophecies, religious texts, lore, histories and more of the books have been heavily invested in, and that is what made this fantasy special - it was an EERILY realistic world in all ways but one: the higher mysteries that captivated us such as dragons, magic and ... yes ... the White Walkers.  Episode 3 was visually perfect and contained some truly amazing moments.  I can admit that.  If you can't admit that parts were rushed and at least TRY to see why at least half of the fan base (and probably more from what I have been seeing) is let down, well ... D&D would be proud, lol.

[GoTfan]

Thanks for insulting my intelligence based on the fact I liked this episode.

I don't have to hate it because you did.

[DINGO Joe]

“prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head.”--book Jorah. 

I'm not really all that bothered by the prophecy issues.

The problem was the Night King never talked.  Not even in Bran's head.  I guess we'll never know what all those symbols were about.  Unless there's some Night King denouement to come.

He didn't need to. One thing people tend to forget is that villains don't always need complex motivations. There is in fact an argument to be made the NK is nothing but a tool, nd the tool's purpose was to wipe out humanity.

So, the Night King just got some chuckles out leaving all the symbols? Imma gonna kill everybody but Imma gonna goof on them first.

[RINO Tom]

Thanks for insulting my intelligence based on the fact I liked this episode.

I don't have to hate it because you did.

I did not insult your intelligence.  I DID insinuate that you are being too easy on the episode and D&D in general out of loyalty to the show, seemingly defending every choice they made.  It's equally annoying that those who didn't like the plot decision they made are being treated as either total haters that were never going to be happy (bullshlt) or people that *don't get it* or *don't appreciate what D&D did* (even more bullshlt).  I didn't "hate it," either, which you would know if you read my response - something I doubt, given the length of your post.

The show made a controversial choice to quickly, efficiently and - worst of all - SIMPLY dispatch of the series' longest standing and most ominous threat without much lore or a big payoff moment.  You should be able to understand why people are upset even if you are not.

[Joe Republic]

Part of what made this show so enjoyable was the palace intrigue.  But that era ended when Cersei blew up the Tyrells and High Sparrow, and Littlefinger finally got littlefingered at Winterfell.  Since then, all the characters have shaken out so that they’re now surrounded by allies, not enemies.  It’s all become so simple now.

[GoTfan]

Thanks for insulting my intelligence based on the fact I liked this episode.

I don't have to hate it because you did.

I did not insult your intelligence.  I DID insinuate that you are being too easy on the episode and D&D in general out of loyalty to the show, seemingly defending every choice they made.  It's equally annoying that those who didn't like the plot decision they made are being treated as either total haters that were never going to be happy (bullshlt) or people that *don't get it* or *don't appreciate what D&D did* (even more bullshlt).  I didn't "hate it," either, which you would know if you read my response - something I doubt, given the length of your post.

The show made a controversial choice to quickly, efficiently and - worst of all - SIMPLY dispatch of the series' longest standing and most ominous threat without much lore or a big payoff moment.  You should be able to understand why people are upset even if you are not.

No, that's pretty much what I got from your post. And yes, you said that anyone who liked it must be thick or have a generally lower average intelligence than people who didn't.

Christ, when I don't like something and other people do, I'm more envious than anything else because they can find enjoyment out of it, but every single f***ing social media post has been on how this was the worst episode of television ever put to air since the thing was invented. It's almost like I was required to hate it or I wasn't a 'true fan'.

Of course, I'm biased because some people have threatened to kill me for saying I liked it.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Okay, so much to say here, but...

1) I get and admire being positive about the direction a show goes in.  I am hardly ever a harsh critic of a show I love, usually because there is only so much left of that show.  That holds especially true for Game of Thrones (though GoTfan's apologism is nauseating, I admit).  However, don't do mental gymnastics to rationalize how someone who didn't like that ending is the one who is falling into tropey bullshlt; that's ing ridiculous.  That episode, while amazing for most of its runtime, was the definition of dumbing stuff down for the casual viewer.  Any know-it-all argument about how Cersei is this complex villain and people who don't like the Night King being defeated this early are just, like, zombie fans who don't appreciate the intrigue of the Iron Throne is so ridiculous it doesn't merit arguing.  Go take a look at YouTube, Instagram and Facebook comment sections ... I'm willing to bet the average IQ of people happy with defeating the White Walkers in Episode 3 is less than half of those who see it for the rushed wrap-up it is.  "It'S cAlLeD gAmE oF tHrOnEs, NoT gAmE oF zOmBiEs."

2) It is so immensely lazy to assume that wanting a final showdown with the Night King instead of Cersei plays into a fantasy trope.  Why, because he's not human?  ing absurd.  What we are going to get is EXACTLY a fantasy trope: glorifying the Throne and system that has oppressed the background characters of this series that starve and struggle to get by while our preferred aristocrats ride off into battle for glory fairytale style.  I am going to bet that GRRM the conscientious objector is not going to let it go down like this.  Before some parrot starts telling me how D&D "got the major plot points from George," they got "broad strokes" ala they will defeat the White Walkers, and ____ will rule Westeros after and things like that.  I will bet my life that Arya doesn't show up ninja style to stab the Night King with a Valyrian Steel dagger minutes after he survived ing dragon fire!  And again, Parrots, I know there is no "Night King" in the book, but there still could be eventually, and even if there isn't substitute "Night King" with "White Walkers" and the point still stands.  Which plays into my next point...

3) The White Walkers (or Others) are what made this story special.  Not because they were soooo spookey or soooo cool or whatever.  They made it special because they were a uniquely complex and mysterious villain for fantasy, AND they were always there on the side.  They served the purpose of getting the humans in our story to realize how TRIVIAL the battles and intrigue of the show actually were ... regardless of your opinion on this latest episode, absolutely nobody can deny that this is what GRRM has been doing for a while now.  The show planted these seeds and then, what?  Killed the Night King with no backstory, no motive (no, Bran's explanation absolutely does not count, and George's is bound to be much, much better) and no resolution?  Why did his White Walkers generals even come?  They did absolutely nothing.  Spare me the "keeping it a mystery" BS, too.  How many times do you need to hear the absolute knuckleheads D&D talk on the Inside the Episode segment to STILL believe they are these great storytellers??  The show foreshadowed so, so much only to throw a hollow, ill conceived curveball at the eleventh hour all for the sake of shock value.  George is on record of saying this is a horrible way to write stories, and he is clear that even if people had guessed something he was planning he would stick with it since he already put down the foreshadowing and plot development.  "They knew it was Arya for three years!"  Do you guys realize they were probably filming Season 7 already three years ago?!  This isn't some brilliantly developed plot line ... it's not a plot line at all.  They wanted to wrap it up so the final battle could be for the Throne, and that's what they did.  Quickly, sloppily and badly.

3) D&D start with the end in mind and work their way there.  Now, each writer/producer/whatever does this to an extent, but GRRM is sure to not let it dictate what his characters would do.  We watched HOURS of Rob's battle planning only for him to shockingly die.  We watched a TON of Ned Stark plot building just to kill him when we were most invested.  Why?  Because that's real life ... certain people aren't handpicked as too important to no longer matter in the blink of an eye.  Who died last episode??  Chopped liver is who ... Theon??  Jorah??  ED?!  Lol, who didn't see all these coming?  Again, if you can't see that they just wanted to rid the series of the White Walkers storyline, I don't know what to say.  Then they throw in little hedge-their-bets lines like the exchange between Jon and Beric beyond the Wall.  "Kill him, and we kill them all."  "You don't understand."  Uh, what doesn't he understand, Jon??  Sounds like he was 100% right, but they just wanted a scene that made us wonder if there was something more mystical and exciting that they'd have to do to vanquish the Night King ... nope, lol.

4) The Night King was in 3/4 of an episode.  Inexcusable, regardless of whom you thought the final villain should be.  If you want to wrap up the WW threat by Episode 4 and make the final battle for the Iron Throne, fine ... bad decision, but fine ... you NEED to put more time into wrapping it up.  Look at the first three episodes from a D&D perspective and try not to be let down ... "Episode 1, we'll do reunions ... check ... Episode 2 will be pre-battle goodbyes ... check ... Episode 3, they'll fight the battle and win ... check."  Guess what was EASILY the best episode, possibly of the series?  Yeah, Episode 2, where the show wasn't trying to rush anything (admittedly because they couldn't).

The bottom line is the story did an awesome job of developing the theme that maybe you actually SHOULDN'T care about the Iron Throne, and it did it brilliantly over several years.  It put in the time and story development to make us realize that the system Dany can't seem to see beyond despite all of her tough talk about breaking the wheel is fundamentally broken, and GRRM used the threat of the White Walkers to demonstrate this.  I very much believe the books will give them a more fulfilling motivation besides the painfully lazy D&D "AI gone rogue" spin or the overused "pure evil" line.  To the poster who said "Well what about Joffrey and Ramsay!!!!" one was a incest-born kid who was RAISED to think he was above everyone else ... he's a product of his upbringing ... and the other was a bastard whose father raped his mother and was a hard man with no love to show his son.  Why do you think Ramsay turned out the way he did?  Again, D&D were smart enough to know they couldn't make the Night King pure evil, so they went with that he's a machine on a program ... disappointing choice, but they could have made it work.  Don't make him ing smile up at Dany after surviving dragon fire, though, if you want us to think of him as simply an unfortunate, death-bringing product of his creation.  They wrote scenes for shock value and to fulfill cliches, and this was a perfect example.  The White Walkers were mindless killing machines when D&D needed them to be, and they were more complex than that other times (like letting Sam live north of the Wall and the NK showing a special interest in Jon earlier in the series).

They scrapped it all.  I love GoT, and I will be tuned in every week until it's over.  Heck, I made this thread, didn't I?  However, your blinders are THICK if you can't see why a fan would be disappointed with this "conclusion" to the show's greatest plot.  Tell yourself what you want, but this isn't how it's going down in the books.  The dreams, prophecies, religious texts, lore, histories and more of the books have been heavily invested in, and that is what made this fantasy special - it was an EERILY realistic world in all ways but one: the higher mysteries that captivated us such as dragons, magic and ... yes ... the White Walkers.  Episode 3 was visually perfect and contained some truly amazing moments.  I can admit that.  If you can't admit that parts were rushed and at least TRY to see why at least half of the fan base (and probably more from what I have been seeing) is let down, well ... D&D would be proud, lol.

Not sure how much [if any] of this is directed at me (if it is then just...lol at all the inaccurate assumptions contained within*, if not, then I’m gonna just let you and GoTFan keep fighting it out ), but I do wanna say a few things:

1) I feel like folks really need to take a deep breath and calm down

2) Since I know one part of the megapost was directed at me, so I’ll respond to that.  I listed a lot more than two characters and Evil for the Evilz doesn’t mean the villain can’t be a great and interesting character (ex: Roose Bolton).  Maybe you meant a “Mwahahahahaha, glorious cartoonishly evil,” in which case fair enough, but even then I think Ramsay and Euron both qualify.  

Regarding BookRamsay, I’m sorry, but the idea that Ramsay is the way he is purely b/c of Roose requires some serious mental gymnastics, to say the least.  Before Ramsay was even permitted to live at The Dreadfort or was given the time of day by Roose, he [Ramsay] murdered his half-brother Domeric.  BookRamsay’s strongly implied latent homosexuality manifests itself in the form of hunting down women with bloodhounds (he’s literally a serial killer) and the whole “Reeking Theon” thing.  The show (sadly) opted to make him a TDK(!)Joker expy VillainSue.  It worked for season 3, but got increasingly problematic after that, especially since Roose is a far more interesting villain (granted, Roose and Ramsay are kinda two sides of the same coin, but still...).  Also, BookTommen was a bastard raised by his completely deranged mother to think he’s better than everyone and he didn’t turn out like Joffrey  

3) I’m quite curious to hear your argument for why BookEuron (who is basically a personification of In It For the Evulz) isn’t an example of an evil for evil’s sake villain.  

4) I didn’t think Theon would die until the Night’s King approached the Godswood (although I thought it was possible he’d die in this episode) and I never for a second thought Lyanna might die prior to the moment the giant wight knocked down the main gate.  Second saddest death of the show thus far imo (after ShowShireen’s, but that one at least was predictable).  

5) The Night’s King is supposed to be a monster, a silent boogeyman ushering in the apocalypse.  I can only speak for myself, but I liked the choice to make him almost like a near invincible destructive force of nature rather than something with motive we can understand.  Some villains need a complex motive, but some work better without one.  Does anyone want to hear about how Michael Myers was really just the victim of abusive redneck parents or the backstory for how Xenomorphs were created by an evil Android after a billionaire’s space mission went wrong when a Humanoid engineer alien was awakened and started killing people because reasons?  Really?

*For example, I hated season seven (especially the painfully bad Winterfell storyline from that season) so much that I was gonna quit watching the show entirely if the first episode of season eight wasn’t a good one.  I’m quite vocal about the things I dislike about the show and my belief that the books are better overall, I’m not a D&D fanboy or anything (and would generally argue that when GoT works, it’s just as often despite D&D butchering something as it is because of their contributions).  

I thought that this episode worked really well [aside from the poor lighting during certain parts of the battle] by GoT standards (it was certainly their best Big Battle episode thus far tbh) and taken in isolation.  I really enjoyed it and I enjoyed it the second and third times I watched it too.  If you didn’t, that’s fine.  I thought the Night’s King worked great and loved the way he got defeated.  Granted, this and Hardhome are the only episodes that ever really got me really invested in the Others stuff [they’ve always felt like a boring sideplot in the books and did in the show until Hardhome].  It’s not blind GoT apologism, D&D fanboyism*, or me being some sort of low IQ moron, I just don’t agree with some of the opinions it feels like you’re treating as objective facts.

In other words, I understand why you feel the way you do, I just disagree with some of your opinions on this episode, but that’s okay.  I don’t mean this in a patronizing or condescending way, but some of this really feels like an “agree to disagree” thing (and that’s allowed, even on the internet ).  We don’t all have to like the same thing.  One person can look at a painting and see something beautiful while the guy next to him can look at it and see dumb, overhyped scribbles without either of them being right or wrong, such is the nature of art.

[RINO Tom]

I'll respond to it in more detail when I have time (had a slow morning), but I was not directing this at any one person in particular and meant it as a catch-all critique of some of the shlt I have seen thrown out there toward people who were disappointed.  I did not feel like they honored what was implicitly promised through their own foreshadowing and hinting, and I acknowledge that as nothing more than my own opinion.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

So I've been rewatching the series for a few weeks and I'm of the mind that it seems like there are a million story threads being trod underfoot owing to the needs of our "final battle" scenario. The religious aspect in particular I feel like has been completely left by the wayside since Stannis was defeated. It seemed like earlier seasons were building toward something cosmic. After all, our protagonist has been raised from the dead, but that matters nought when he gets to shack up with Danerys.

The show is nothing but generic fantasy schlock now. Which, like, if that's what the average viewer wants, then great. But it's terribly disappointing artistically.

Well I'm still hoping the Lord of Light keeps GRRM alive to finish the books with his version of the story.

Martin has told them all the major plot points. D and D mentioned they've known it was Arya for three years. People seem to either forget about or wholesale ignore this.

Well it is selective recall then, but I think GRRM could still swerve and definitely flesh out this battle like he's describing food at a feast.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The books were cheap on Amazon so I’ll be back in two years to settle all these debates.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

So I've been rewatching the series for a few weeks and I'm of the mind that it seems like there are a million story threads being trod underfoot owing to the needs of our "final battle" scenario. The religious aspect in particular I feel like has been completely left by the wayside since Stannis was defeated. It seemed like earlier seasons were building toward something cosmic. After all, our protagonist has been raised from the dead, but that matters nought when he gets to shack up with Danerys.

The show is nothing but generic fantasy schlock now. Which, like, if that's what the average viewer wants, then great. But it's terribly disappointing artistically.

Well I'm still hoping the Lord of Light keeps GRRM alive to finish the books with his version of the story.

Martin has told them all the major plot points. D and D mentioned they've known it was Arya for three years. People seem to either forget about or wholesale ignore this.

Well it is selective recall then, but I think GRRM could still swerve and definitely flesh out this battle like he's describing food at a feast.

GRRM didn’t tell them all the major plot points, he told them things like the endgame for major characters (dead/alive, location at end of the story, etc), the broad strokes of his plans, and a few specific details he was already certain of like that Shireen would be burned (pretty sure that’ll go down a bit differently in the books though.  Aside from that D&D are basically filling in the blanks on their own although GRRM has said he has many conversations where they’ve consulted with him on one plot point or another.

[7,052,770]

I'm willing to bet the average IQ of people happy with defeating the White Walkers in Episode 3 is less than half of those who see it for the rushed wrap-up it is.  "It'S cAlLeD gAmE oF tHrOnEs, NoT gAmE oF zOmBiEs."

It would be a stretch to say that the people who liked the episode have an IQ that's 5% lower than those who didn't.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The body count was bloody high for the grunts. Dany & Jon are now generals with mostly officers and few troops. So how does one win the game of thrones when you can't simply bludgeon your enemies? This show (and the books) were never about the standard fantasy trope of raising an army to win a valiant fight, so having the major anticipated fight not be the climax of the story is entirely in keeping with what makes it so much fun.

POTENTIAL SPOILER:
I think the Iron Bank of Bravos is about to make its power play and have the Golden Company eliminate the bothersome pirates of the Iron Fleet and then offer its aid to Dany.  I know that the Golden Company honors its contracts, but it is the Iron Bank that provided their coin, not Cersei.

[RINO Tom]

My big problem with the episode is that their "twist" is actually a punch in the balls. They've spent the last four-ish seasons basically Renly-ing most major power players in the South (Tyrells, Martells, High Sparrow, etc.) or just killing them off because they don't have a purpose (read: don't do anything, but can't make cock jokes). When all of this happened, I justified it as them just doing what they need to to get to the "real war, the White Walkers". Then they took that, ripped it to pieces, urinated on it, formed it into a paper machete fleshlight, ed it, then gave it back to me.

I don't really care whether you (not anybody in particular) liked the episode. It's just bad storytelling to pump up a threat for years and years and then squash it midseason.

I did the battle portion of the episode. It was a bit too dark at times, and I wish they actually killed people (Sam, Jaime, Brienne).