Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

At least Dany will go out a queen.

Ah yes, she may have been the female version of Hitler, but by God she will go out a queen.

What a trainwreck of a show.

Oh I don't care, because if you haven't noticed: This show isn't real life. Plus, Hitler never freed slaves... Anyways, glad she burned KL to the ground.

The only thing you said that wasn't dumber than S6 Tyrion Lannister was that this show is a train wreck.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Besides, he's right. Viserys abused her, Xaro and Doreah betrayed her and killed her friend, she crucified slave traders, and killed a bunch of mini Hitlers called the Khals. Literally none of that was wrong.

[fhtagn]

I got so excited for Cleganebowl.

And it was quickly ruined. What a disappointing fight.

[Xing]

I think the "turn" was always a potential ending for Dany, but it was executed horribly on the show. I've pretty much yet to see a convincing "turn" of a good character (I hated how they did Anakin's turn in Episode III), since it's almost always done as a plot twist, so it rarely feels justified or logical from a character standpoint. Yes, there were "hints" that Dany was capable of turning, but it still felt rushed and overblown on the show.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

I think the "turn" was always a potential ending for Dany, but it was executed horribly on the show. I've pretty much yet to see a convincing "turn" of a good character (I hated how they did Anakin's turn in Episode III), since it's almost always done as a plot twist, so it rarely feels justified or logical from a character standpoint. Yes, there were "hints" that Dany was capable of turning, but it still felt rushed and overblown on the show.

THIS. I don't mind Dany turning into a villain. I'm irritated that it was rushed and jammed into TWO EPISODES (Idgaf about the little "signs" she showed along the way). HBO literally offered to expand the budget so that D&D could produce a 10 episode season and they said no because they wanted to move onto ruining Star Wars. I feel bad for Emilia Clarke having to put up with that.

[Helsinkian]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Watch it right here and tell me exactly at what point are the Tarlys holding weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGBZ1s5k9Q

They and the Lannister soldiers had been disarmed at that point; they were POWs. Dany executed them because they did not want to bend the knee, ie. acknowledge her as queen. Following that logic, I suppose it would have been OK with you if she had just first asked the unarmed peasants which they preferred, her or Cersei, and then burned the ones who preferred Cersei?

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Watch it right here and tell me exactly at what point are the Tarlys holding weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGBZ1s5k9Q

They and the Lannister soldiers had been disarmed at that point; they were POWs. Dany executed them because they did not want to bend the knee, ie. acknowledge her as queen. Following that logic, I suppose it would have been OK with you if she had just first asked the unarmed peasants which they preferred, her or Cersei, and then burned the ones who preferred Cersei?

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

[Helsinkian]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

Yes, and almost all the civilians of Baghdad were killed when the Mongols sacked the city in 1258. Because the Mongols wanted to show strength. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

...and that's just one example of civilians being massacred in medieval times. So what are we doing here? Applying 21st century standards to (fictional) medieval times in one thing (killing civilians) but not other things (killing POWs)?

[Dereich]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Watch it right here and tell me exactly at what point are the Tarlys holding weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGBZ1s5k9Q

They and the Lannister soldiers had been disarmed at that point; they were POWs. Dany executed them because they did not want to bend the knee, ie. acknowledge her as queen. Following that logic, I suppose it would have been OK with you if she had just first asked the unarmed peasants which they preferred, her or Cersei, and then burned the ones who preferred Cersei?

Making an example of openly rebellious lords is not unique to Daenerys. Nobody considered Tywin Lannister crazy after he exterminated House Tarbeck and then trapped the 300 members of House Reyne in a mine and had it flooded so they drowned when they were offering to negotiate. In fact, it only made his stature grow. The WISDOM of Danaerys' decision to execute Tarly is certainly questionable, but there is clearly a reason for her actions and it wasn't treated as an outrageous act in-universe. Something that was true of all of the actions you've mentioned until today's burning of KL.

I don't think anyone has denied that Daenerys tends to overpunish. But that doesn't lead to her massacring civilians for no reason. The show did not establish that as something she would ever do and that, I think, is where the real issue is.

[GoTfan]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Besides, he's right. Viserys abused her, Xaro and Doreah betrayed her and killed her friend, she crucified slave traders, and killed a bunch of mini Hitlers called the Khals. Literally none of that was wrong.

Except she could have taken them prisoner.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Besides, he's right. Viserys abused her, Xaro and Doreah betrayed her and killed her friend, she crucified slave traders, and killed a bunch of mini Hitlers called the Khals. Literally none of that was wrong.

Except she could have taken them prisoner.

Ok, fine. I concede that she could've handled the Tarly situation better. I imagine I would've if I were in her shoes.

[windjammer]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Watch it right here and tell me exactly at what point are the Tarlys holding weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGBZ1s5k9Q

They and the Lannister soldiers had been disarmed at that point; they were POWs. Dany executed them because they did not want to bend the knee, ie. acknowledge her as queen. Following that logic, I suppose it would have been OK with you if she had just first asked the unarmed peasants which they preferred, her or Cersei, and then burned the ones who preferred Cersei?

Making an example of openly rebellious lords is not unique to Daenerys. Nobody considered Tywin Lannister crazy after he exterminated House Tarbeck and then trapped the 300 members of House Reyne in a mine and had it flooded so they drowned when they were offering to negotiate. In fact, it only made his stature grow. The WISDOM of Danaerys' decision to execute Tarly is certainly questionable, but there is clearly a reason for her actions and it wasn't treated as an outrageous act in-universe. Something that was true of all of the actions you've mentioned until today's burning of KL.

I don't think anyone has denied that Daenerys tends to overpunish. But that doesn't lead to her massacring civilians for no reason. The show did not establish that as something she would ever do and that, I think, is where the real issue is.

I mean,
In the season they had to rush a bit because they didn"t have time. But it's obvious in the books she's crazy.

[Joe Republic]

I mean,
In the season they had to rush a bit because they didn"t have time.

Whose choice was that?

Somebody said it earlier in this thread; the writers are behaving as if this show got canceled.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Leaving aside the whole problem of inadequately developed motivation, by destroying Cersei in a manner that makes it impossible to produce a body, Dany has left her reign open to pretenders claiming to be Cersei (or Cersei's child) whenever revolt brews.

We also saw troops stupidly massing outside walls again this episode.

Whatever faults D&D may have as writers, they pale in comparison with their faults as generals.

[GoTfan]

Honestly the way fans have reacted with such vitriol (especially when I have received death threats over liking this season) has really given me a terrible impression of the fanbase.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Honestly the way fans have reacted with such vitriol (especially when I have received death threats over liking this season) has really given me a terrible impression of the fanbase.

Drakarys!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

[GoTfan]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

There's unhealthy fanbases all around. I remember a certain subset doing the exact same thing to me when I had the sheer nerve to say I like The Last Jedi. The same thing happened because i like Captain Marvel.

I don't agree with Greer's thesis that all the viewers are twisted fetishists of some sort. Honestly, i just want to be able to sit back and enjoy my favourite show without having to look outside my window every few hours to make sure I'm not being watched.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

There's unhealthy fanbases all around. I remember a certain subset doing the exact same thing to me when I had the sheer nerve to say I like The Last Jedi. The same thing happened because i like Captain Marvel.

I don't agree with Greer's thesis that all the viewers are twisted fetishists of some sort. Honestly, i just want to be able to sit back and enjoy my favourite show without having to look outside my window every few hours to make sure I'm not being watched.

I try to enjoy these things for what they are.  In case of the movies,  the woke sh**t annoys me but still there was plenty to enjoy as well.

[GoTfan]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

There's unhealthy fanbases all around. I remember a certain subset doing the exact same thing to me when I had the sheer nerve to say I like The Last Jedi. The same thing happened because i like Captain Marvel.

I don't agree with Greer's thesis that all the viewers are twisted fetishists of some sort. Honestly, i just want to be able to sit back and enjoy my favourite show without having to look outside my window every few hours to make sure I'm not being watched.

I try to enjoy these things for what they are.  In case of the movies,  the woke sh**t annoys me but still there was plenty to enjoy as well.

Personally I didn't see any of it, but I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Not worth an argument. I watch this stuff specifically so I can turn my brain off for a while each day.

[RINO Tom]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The Good:

- The King's Landing chaos scenes were extremely well-directed, especially the ones with Arya trying to escape from KL (which were extremely suspenseful)

- I'm all for any version of Qyburn dying in a way that underlines his complete and utter insignificance in the scheme of things as if the universe is mocking BookQyburn's delusions of grandeur about the importance of his "work."  Of course, I suspect this was a happy coincidence.  

- While he's nothing like BookEuron, the guy who plays ShowEuron (a.k.a. Eurotrash Gaston) has been giving such a fun performance that he steals like every scene he's in

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

- The acting by the folks playing Arya, Euron, Varys, Tyrion, and Cersei was solid (especially the first three)

The bad:

Everything else (and I want to stress the word "everything"), especially the bells, bells, bells, bells, bells of King's Landing randomly causing Dany to reign hellfire down upon KL.  Why did I turn the preceding sentence into a Hunchback of Notre Dame reference?  I dunno, but it made more sense than that horribly executed twist.

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Brought to you by non-sequitur

[RINO Tom]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Okay, I'm sorry, get over it?  Lol.  It was as a retort to the insinuation that the people complaining about the writing *didn't get* something or were missing something ... i.e., I would argue if there IS a side to this debate that is being a bit less intellectual about analyzing this season - which I was NOT saying there is - then there would be a better case for it being the defenders of D&D who were dumbing down their arguments to line up with what they wanted.

I have lost the motivation to try to convince people that character arcs, emotionally powerful storytelling and logic-driven plot have been scrapped for the sake of spectacle ... if you disagree at this point, you will never agree.