Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Okay, I'm sorry, get over it?  Lol.  It was as a retort to the insinuation that the people complaining about the writing *didn't get* something or were missing something ... i.e., I would argue if there IS a side to this debate that is being a bit less intellectual about analyzing this season - which I was NOT saying there is - then there would be a better case for it being the defenders of D&D who were dumbing down their arguments to line up with what they wanted.

I have lost the motivation to try to convince people that character arcs, emotionally powerful storytelling and logic-driven plot have been scrapped for the sake of spectacle ... if you disagree at this point, you will never agree.

And I'll say the same for you.

In all honesty, Martin can be blames just as much for this. They signed on to adapt the books and Martin said he'd have them finished by now. From my understanding, they're working from a very basic bullet point list and have been for the last 4 seasons, which is why I find it hilarious that conspiracy theorists are saying he outright lied to them about the whole thing.

But of course, this is the same passage I ended up getting threats to my life over.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This thread in a nutshell:

[DaWN]

This episode was actually an improvement over the last one. The writing and characters were still crap but I was at least entertained rather than bored out of my skull.

[RINO Tom]

This episode was actually an improvement over the last one. The writing and characters were still crap but I was at least entertained rather than bored out of my skull.

Lol, yep ... if the writing is going to be awful, there might as well be some fire and shlt.

[dead0man]

So many thoughts....here's some

Clegane Bowl was underwhelming.  I had more issues with rando "good" guys turning evil than I did Dany doing the same.  I hope every one of named "good" guys (Arya, Jon, Onion Knight, Tyrian) first line to her when they meet up again is "WTF was that?  Are you crazy bitch?"

[Joe Republic]

Hmm... the people of Westeros don’t love me as the former slaves I freed in Essos do.  They seem to fear me instead.  What to do... what to do.....

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Well...

"I'M SmaRTeR ThAN  yOu beCauSE I HatE tHiS."

You sound like every single hipster in the world. Worse, like me in primary school. I understand not liking this, but don't go belittling everyone else just because you're in a bad mood over it.

This season's just given me a very bad impression of the fan base as a whole.

[Devout Centrist]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

[7,052,770]

Not that I'm defending Dany's sudden turn or anything, but it's only in the last couple of decades that anyone would have really thought what Dany did was wrong. As late as WWII civilians were routinely mass slaughtered by all sides and that was just part of war.

[Devout Centrist]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Perhaps, but I'm not so sure it was the best direction to take the character. I realize the writers are under a significant time constraint. However, I think it's important to emphasize that this did not have to be the case. HBO offered substantially more episodes for the final two seasons and this offer was turned down.

The series may well have benefited from more time to conclude different intertwining plots, but we'll never know. In any case, I see where you're coming from with respect to Daenerys and her erratic, violent behavior.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The bad:

Everything else (and I want to stress the word "everything"), especially the bells, bells, bells, bells, bells of King's Landing randomly causing Dany to reign hellfire down upon KL.  Why did I turn the preceding sentence into a Hunchback of Notre Dame reference?  I dunno, but it made more sense than that horribly executed twist.

Actually, I found that quite sensible.  She offered them the chance to surrender, which the bells were supposed to signal, but they waited until after the hard work and risk involved in breaching the defenses of the city had happened. Too late!  Especially as she's been burned before by people surrendering so they can try sticking a knife in her back once they failed to stick in her front. One can argue that she should have not rushed the assault in the first place, but that's a separate issue.

[John Dule]

I think the problem here is that the writers have been """hinting""" that Daenerys is an evil tyrant for eight seasons, but the portion of the fanbase that loves her is too stupid (and has had its mind warped by female empowerment platitudes too much) to understand what they're being shown. From her first scene in the show, Dany has been nothing but an egomaniacal sociopath with no emotions whose only joy comes from watching people she dislikes burn alive. I wonder, has there been a single moment since Season 1 in which any of you think she showed genuine emotion? Even when she talks to her friends/subordinates/subjects, she always comes across as dishonest (of course, this may be due to Emilia Clarke's acting skills, which are virtually nonexistent). When she smiles, it's always out of malice or manipulation-- have you forgotten when she "didn't feel anything at all" after leaving the man she loved in Mereen back in Season 6?

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Tywin as an example of a character who's just as cruel as Dany-- really? What an awful comparison. Say what you will about Tywin, but he was never arbitrary with his cruelty. He didn't enjoy butchery; he did exactly what it took for him to preserve his family's position and nothing more. That's what Castamere and the Sack of King's Landing were all about. Remember when he said "When your enemies to to their knees and beg forgiveness, you must be merciful?" To contrast: when Dany kills people, they're often people who are already at her mercy (her brother, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, the slave masters of Mereen). Worse, she does all this while telling people that they're being "liberated," something so despicable not even Joffrey or Ramsey Bolton would have deluded themselves into believing it. Like the morons who enjoy her character, she has fully convinced herself that she is the hero of her story, and this allows her to do virtually anything without fear of repercussions.

For some unfathomable reason, people have latched onto Daenerys as the "strong female character" in this show (a show which, mind you, includes Sansa and Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Cersei Lannister, Catelyn, Yara Greyjoy, Ygritte, etc), naming their kids "Khaleesi" and constantly fashioning new ways to justify her war crimes. Well, there's no recovering from this one. These woke psychos are going to have to face the reality that their queen is and always has been an awful person and an even worse character.

[RINO Tom]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

[RINO Tom]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

"I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that."  What about this sentence gives you the idea that I "missed" that GRRM will have this happen in the books?  As you have said *ad nauseam*, they were given very basic bullet points by GRRM - ala Dany will light up King's Landing and the White Walkers will be defeated ... the problem, as has also been said *ad nauseam* is D&D are so ing awful that they can't work with just bullet points to make a good story; they need the whole thing spelled out for them, as it was for the first five seasons.  Surely, you can see the semantics in the TONS of different ways Dany could have lit up King's Landing, and I refuse to believe you don't think it could have been done in a more emotionally satisfying way consistent with her character arc and past actions.

Dude, I am starting to think you ARE D&D ... for several reasons.

EDIT: Since you will probably take this all kinds of personally, I will go on the record as saying I am not insulting your intelligence as a person ... I am sure that you are smarter than I am.  However, you are very clearly subverting your own intelligence (kind of like Dan & Dave sUbVeRtEd ExPeCtAtIoNs!!) all in the name of defending two pseudo-intellectual hacks who couldn't give fewer shlts about you or me or any other fan that loves this story.  There is a reason this season is receiving so much hate, and it's not some inherent problem with the GoT fan base ... which literally encompasses millions of different kinds of people.  It's because it could be so much better, and the spectacularly weak link of the writing has become a huge black eye on otherwise excellent visuals, acting, directing, etc.

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

"I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that."  What about this sentence gives you the idea that I "missed" that GRRM will have this happen in the books?  As you have said *ad nauseam*, they were given very basic bullet points by GRRM - ala Dany will light up King's Landing and the White Walkers will be defeated ... the problem, as has also been said *ad nauseam* is D&D are so ing awful that they can't work with just bullet points to make a good story; they need the whole thing spelled out for them, as it was for the first five seasons.  Surely, you can see the semantics in the TONS of different ways Dany could have lit up King's Landing, and I refuse to believe you don't think it could have been done in a more emotionally satisfying way consistent with her character arc and past actions.

Dude, I am starting to think you ARE D&D ... for several reasons.

Think whatever the f**k you like of me. But when one side has been threatening to kill me over my opinion of season 8, what do you think my reaction is gonna be?

And stop pretending Martin is this writing God. He's not. You know why the last couple of books have taken ages to release? Because he wrote himself into a plot pit. He said he was going to have them all finished,  and I refuse to pin the blame on the producers who signed on to adapt a book series.

[dead0man]

one things is clear, some people are WAY too emotionally involved in a television show/book series.

[RINO Tom]

one things is clear, some people are WAY too emotionally involved in a television show/book series.

Guilty.  As.  Charged!

That was my bad getting too into this series, and no, I am not being sarcastic.  Makes this shltshow worse. :/

[dead0man]

one things is clear, some people are WAY too emotionally involved in a television show/book series.

Guilty.  As.  Charged!

That was my bad getting too into this series, and no, I am not being sarcastic.  Makes this shltshow worse. :/

I love the show, still do, but I've made fun of it since episode 1.  Swords don't make loud metal on metal scraping noises when pulled out, even if almost every other piece of entertainment makes the same mistake, it doesn't make it ok.  That's just one, nearly constant, example of something stupid the show has always done.  There are many others.  And The Office did sh**t just as stupid and unrealistic.  And the Sopranos and Breaking Bad and every other piece of entertainment ever has characters doing amazingly stupid things, or things that seem very out of character.  Not always, some pieces of art are better at it than others, but eventually every character is going to do something that just doesn't make any sense for them to do.

tl:dr version-pull back.  Enjoy it for the boobs, blood and soap opera

[fluffypanther19]

i honestly cant believe how bad this show has gotten. its a literal trainwreck and i cant turn away

[Lumine]

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

[John Dule]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

"I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that."  What about this sentence gives you the idea that I "missed" that GRRM will have this happen in the books?  As you have said *ad nauseam*, they were given very basic bullet points by GRRM - ala Dany will light up King's Landing and the White Walkers will be defeated ... the problem, as has also been said *ad nauseam* is D&D are so ing awful that they can't work with just bullet points to make a good story; they need the whole thing spelled out for them, as it was for the first five seasons.  Surely, you can see the semantics in the TONS of different ways Dany could have lit up King's Landing, and I refuse to believe you don't think it could have been done in a more emotionally satisfying way consistent with her character arc and past actions.

Dude, I am starting to think you ARE D&D ... for several reasons.

Think whatever the f**k you like of me. But when one side has been threatening to kill me over my opinion of season 8, what do you think my reaction is gonna be?

And stop pretending Martin is this writing God. He's not. You know why the last couple of books have taken ages to release? Because he wrote himself into a plot pit. He said he was going to have them all finished,  and I refuse to pin the blame on the producers who signed on to adapt a book series.

You don't have to be a "writing God" to acknowledge that this series has had major problems since it started going off the books.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I think the "turn" was always a potential ending for Dany, but it was executed horribly on the show. I've pretty much yet to see a convincing "turn" of a good character (I hated how they did Anakin's turn in Episode III), since it's almost always done as a plot twist, so it rarely feels justified or logical from a character standpoint. Yes, there were "hints" that Dany was capable of turning, but it still felt rushed and overblown on the show.

Okay, I'll bite (just to show that it can be done well):

- Michael Corleone in The Godfather?

- Benjamin Barker in Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (1979 broadway production)

- Magneto in X-Men: First Class

- Jimmy McGill in Better Call Saul

- Walter White in Breaking Bad (I'd argue it basically happens over the course of just the first episode)

That's five right there just off the top of my head.  What do those have in common?  It's not exactly a twist.