Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread (user search)
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Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread  (Read 13958 times)
RINO Tom
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« on: April 14, 2019, 12:44:30 PM »

Finally here...
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 09:46:20 AM »

I generally approved ... 8/10.  It was a semi-rushed (by necessity) episode to set up the next two.  The moment with Sam was top notch and kind of stole the show.  Visually, it was flawless.

Pumped for next week, which interestingly looks like it will contain the start of a battle (from watching the preview).

P.S.  I LOVED the scene at the Last Hearth.  I was worried they would dumb down the White Walkers a bit too much in this rushed final season, and - while I guess they still could - it was refreshing to see them emphasize the spiral symbol right off the bat in the premiere ... it gives me some hope that they will still dive into the mythology of the White Walkers a bit more.  Also, for people who think that the living will win the Battle of Winterfell in Episode 3 and defeat the Night King and then turn their attention toward Cersei in Kings Landing (~50% of the fan base from what I have seen), you are now predicting that the Night King will literally be in TWO episodes and will only see battle action in one ... not buying it.  Our crew is definitely going to have to retreat south.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2019, 09:06:31 AM »

I generally approved ... 8/10.  It was a semi-rushed (by necessity) episode to set up the next two.  The moment with Sam was top notch and kind of stole the show.  Visually, it was flawless.

Pumped for next week, which interestingly looks like it will contain the start of a battle (from watching the preview).

P.S.  I LOVED the scene at the Last Hearth.  I was worried they would dumb down the White Walkers a bit too much in this rushed final season, and - while I guess they still could - it was refreshing to see them emphasize the spiral symbol right off the bat in the premiere ... it gives me some hope that they will still dive into the mythology of the White Walkers a bit more.  Also, for people who think that the living will win the Battle of Winterfell in Episode 3 and defeat the Night King and then turn their attention toward Cersei in Kings Landing (~50% of the fan base from what I have seen), you are now predicting that the Night King will literally be in TWO episodes and will only see battle action in one ... not buying it.  Our crew is definitely going to have to retreat south.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the gang is going to get it's ass kicked in Episode 3 and have to stage a retreat.

I guess we all knew that Kid Umber was dead the second Sansa told him to go bring his people back (what no ravens to Umber?). 

I like that Cersei expressed our disappointment at not having elephants.  As a book nerd I'm still mad that the whole Rickon goes to the isle of the super wildlings and their unicorn creatures got ditched.  Also cranky that House Manderly was never part of the show as they seemed quite skilled in the books and their ships would be handy for a retreat.  Of course, that's probably where Yara comes in.  Again, as a book nerd having it done via House Reed and the crannogmen would be cool (and Meera's still out there somewhere) but that ain't gonna happen.  Yara just gets to sail up wherever and give them a lift.

The Bran-Jamie reunion was a great one cause Jamie gets the same look everyone gets from Bran, except Jamie don't know that.

I mean, you can say that, but think about it: if they retreat where exactly will the final battle be? Winterfell is probably THE most iconic location in the series. At this point, Winterfell and the Red Keep are the only two places on the map in the opening and the city is deeply tied to both magic and the Stark's identity. Nowhere else in the North comes close to its importance; if they retreat from Winterfell where would they go? Nowhere but Winterfell works in a narrative sense for the final battle unless they flee all the way to King's Landing, which doesn't seem very likely to fit into five episodes while still dealing with Cersei.

My prediction is as of now the living will use the secret tunnels below Winterfell (hinted at and foreshadowed way too much throughout the series) to escape, and they'll retreat to Kings Landing.  They will have no choice but to try to take the city before Cersei does something crazy like light it up with wild fire and add one million more to the Army of the Dead, and AS that battle is beginning the snow/wind will start swirling, and Episode 5 will be epic.  I don't think they CAN defeat the Night King's army; I think it will have to be by some "magic technicality" that Bran will need to discover.

I just refuse to accept that even D&D will screw up the entire theme of the series and make the final battle simply one crazy lady for the throne vs. a barely crazy lady with dragons.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2019, 09:22:44 AM »

Again, I've been corrupted by the books, but I assume that the Night King is headed back to the place from which he's created, the Isle of Faces, which we've only briefly seen via Bran.  It's located between the Riverlands and King's Landing.

Great YouTube channel called SmokeScreen that has been predicting that the Night King is headed for the God's Eye ... I really hope he's right, as that would be a lot better storytelling.  However, I have to wonder if that's too complex for D&D.

I generally approved ... 8/10.  It was a semi-rushed (by necessity) episode to set up the next two.  The moment with Sam was top notch and kind of stole the show.  Visually, it was flawless.

Pumped for next week, which interestingly looks like it will contain the start of a battle (from watching the preview).

P.S.  I LOVED the scene at the Last Hearth.  I was worried they would dumb down the White Walkers a bit too much in this rushed final season, and - while I guess they still could - it was refreshing to see them emphasize the spiral symbol right off the bat in the premiere ... it gives me some hope that they will still dive into the mythology of the White Walkers a bit more.  Also, for people who think that the living will win the Battle of Winterfell in Episode 3 and defeat the Night King and then turn their attention toward Cersei in Kings Landing (~50% of the fan base from what I have seen), you are now predicting that the Night King will literally be in TWO episodes and will only see battle action in one ... not buying it.  Our crew is definitely going to have to retreat south.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the gang is going to get it's ass kicked in Episode 3 and have to stage a retreat.

I guess we all knew that Kid Umber was dead the second Sansa told him to go bring his people back (what no ravens to Umber?). 

I like that Cersei expressed our disappointment at not having elephants.  As a book nerd I'm still mad that the whole Rickon goes to the isle of the super wildlings and their unicorn creatures got ditched.  Also cranky that House Manderly was never part of the show as they seemed quite skilled in the books and their ships would be handy for a retreat.  Of course, that's probably where Yara comes in.  Again, as a book nerd having it done via House Reed and the crannogmen would be cool (and Meera's still out there somewhere) but that ain't gonna happen.  Yara just gets to sail up wherever and give them a lift.

The Bran-Jamie reunion was a great one cause Jamie gets the same look everyone gets from Bran, except Jamie don't know that.

I mean, you can say that, but think about it: if they retreat where exactly will the final battle be? Winterfell is probably THE most iconic location in the series. At this point, Winterfell and the Red Keep are the only two places on the map in the opening and the city is deeply tied to both magic and the Stark's identity. Nowhere else in the North comes close to its importance; if they retreat from Winterfell where would they go? Nowhere but Winterfell works in a narrative sense for the final battle unless they flee all the way to King's Landing, which doesn't seem very likely to fit into five episodes while still dealing with Cersei.

My prediction is as of now the living will use the secret tunnels below Winterfell (hinted at and foreshadowed way too much throughout the series) to escape, and they'll retreat to Kings Landing.  They will have no choice but to try to take the city before Cersei does something crazy like light it up with wild fire and add one million more to the Army of the Dead, and AS that battle is beginning the snow/wind will start swirling, and Episode 5 will be epic.  I don't think they CAN defeat the Night King's army; I think it will have to be by some "magic technicality" that Bran will need to discover.

I just refuse to accept that even D&D will screw up the entire theme of the series and make the final battle simply one crazy lady for the throne vs. a barely crazy lady with dragons.

After the Winterfell storyline in season seven, I put nothing beneath them.

Lol, fair...
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 11:19:34 AM »

Who would each win each region of Westeros if it was the UK? Assume Labour, Conservative, and Liberal Dems. I would assume that there would be North and Dorne nationalist parties as well.

Don't know quite enough about the regions to assume too much, but I think the Reach and the Westerlands would vote Conservative.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 09:28:26 AM »

Perfect setup episode in that it kind of returned to the show's roots before it ran out of book material - characters interacting with each other rather than rushed plot.  This was especially powerful, IMO, because this is probably the last time we will ever see characters really just being themselves.

Next week will be absolutely insane.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2019, 03:37:14 PM »

Who would each win each region of Westeros if it was the UK? Assume Labour, Conservative, and Liberal Dems. I would assume that there would be North and Dorne nationalist parties as well.

Don't know quite enough about the regions to assume too much, but I think the Reach and the Westerlands would vote Conservative.

You sure? Given their fairly lax attitude towards homosexuality (when compared with the rest of Westeros), I always assumed they were one of the more progressive regions.

I missed this.  I figured the Reach would be conservative on the grounds that it is heavily agricultural and always struck me as sort of "economically conservative," but yeah you have a point.  I feel pretty confident about the Westerlands, though.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2019, 01:40:10 PM »

My friends are giving me so much shlt (while also agreeing with me, I might add) since my nightmare scenario of D&D going 110% in on dumbing down the White Walkers and defeating them halfway through the final season only for the final conflict to be two aristocrats battling for the same old throne actually came true ... absolutely amazing episode until the end.  I was livid afterward, lol.  This sums up my thoughts quite nicely, but in the end they simply threw out eight years of foreshadowing and thematic progression in favor of simplicity, and it's sad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BgnxTWW7sc
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 09:58:11 AM »
« Edited: April 30, 2019, 10:01:50 AM by RINO Tom »

Okay, so much to say here, but...

1) I get and admire being positive about the direction a show goes in.  I am hardly ever a harsh critic of a show I love, usually because there is only so much left of that show.  That holds especially true for Game of Thrones (though GoTfan's apologism is nauseating, I admit).  However, don't do mental gymnastics to rationalize how someone who didn't like that ending is the one who is falling into tropey bullshlt; that's ing ridiculous.  That episode, while amazing for most of its runtime, was the definition of dumbing stuff down for the casual viewer.  Any know-it-all argument about how Cersei is this complex villain and people who don't like the Night King being defeated this early are just, like, zombie fans who don't appreciate the intrigue of the Iron Throne is so ridiculous it doesn't merit arguing.  Go take a look at YouTube, Instagram and Facebook comment sections ... I'm willing to bet the average IQ of people happy with defeating the White Walkers in Episode 3 is less than half of those who see it for the rushed wrap-up it is.  "It'S cAlLeD gAmE oF tHrOnEs, NoT gAmE oF zOmBiEs."

2) It is so immensely lazy to assume that wanting a final showdown with the Night King instead of Cersei plays into a fantasy trope.  Why, because he's not human?  ing absurd.  What we are going to get is EXACTLY a fantasy trope: glorifying the Throne and system that has oppressed the background characters of this series that starve and struggle to get by while our preferred aristocrats ride off into battle for glory fairytale style.  I am going to bet that GRRM the conscientious objector is not going to let it go down like this.  Before some parrot starts telling me how D&D "got the major plot points from George," they got "broad strokes" ala they will defeat the White Walkers, and ____ will rule Westeros after and things like that.  I will bet my life that Arya doesn't show up ninja style to stab the Night King with a Valyrian Steel dagger minutes after he survived ing dragon fire!  And again, Parrots, I know there is no "Night King" in the book, but there still could be eventually, and even if there isn't substitute "Night King" with "White Walkers" and the point still stands.  Which plays into my next point...

3) The White Walkers (or Others) are what made this story special.  Not because they were soooo spookey or soooo cool or whatever.  They made it special because they were a uniquely complex and mysterious villain for fantasy, AND they were always there on the side.  They served the purpose of getting the humans in our story to realize how TRIVIAL the battles and intrigue of the show actually were ... regardless of your opinion on this latest episode, absolutely nobody can deny that this is what GRRM has been doing for a while now.  The show planted these seeds and then, what?  Killed the Night King with no backstory, no motive (no, Bran's explanation absolutely does not count, and George's is bound to be much, much better) and no resolution?  Why did his White Walkers generals even come?  They did absolutely nothing.  Spare me the "keeping it a mystery" BS, too.  How many times do you need to hear the absolute knuckleheads D&D talk on the Inside the Episode segment to STILL believe they are these great storytellers??  The show foreshadowed so, so much only to throw a hollow, ill conceived curveball at the eleventh hour all for the sake of shock value.  George is on record of saying this is a horrible way to write stories, and he is clear that even if people had guessed something he was planning he would stick with it since he already put down the foreshadowing and plot development.  "They knew it was Arya for three years!"  Do you guys realize they were probably filming Season 7 already three years ago?!  This isn't some brilliantly developed plot line ... it's not a plot line at all.  They wanted to wrap it up so the final battle could be for the Throne, and that's what they did.  Quickly, sloppily and badly.

3) D&D start with the end in mind and work their way there.  Now, each writer/producer/whatever does this to an extent, but GRRM is sure to not let it dictate what his characters would do.  We watched HOURS of Rob's battle planning only for him to shockingly die.  We watched a TON of Ned Stark plot building just to kill him when we were most invested.  Why?  Because that's real life ... certain people aren't handpicked as too important to no longer matter in the blink of an eye.  Who died last episode??  Chopped liver is who ... Theon??  Jorah??  ED?!  Lol, who didn't see all these coming?  Again, if you can't see that they just wanted to rid the series of the White Walkers storyline, I don't know what to say.  Then they throw in little hedge-their-bets lines like the exchange between Jon and Beric beyond the Wall.  "Kill him, and we kill them all."  "You don't understand."  Uh, what doesn't he understand, Jon??  Sounds like he was 100% right, but they just wanted a scene that made us wonder if there was something more mystical and exciting that they'd have to do to vanquish the Night King ... nope, lol.

4) The Night King was in 3/4 of an episode.  Inexcusable, regardless of whom you thought the final villain should be.  If you want to wrap up the WW threat by Episode 4 and make the final battle for the Iron Throne, fine ... bad decision, but fine ... you NEED to put more time into wrapping it up.  Look at the first three episodes from a D&D perspective and try not to be let down ... "Episode 1, we'll do reunions ... check ... Episode 2 will be pre-battle goodbyes ... check ... Episode 3, they'll fight the battle and win ... check."  Guess what was EASILY the best episode, possibly of the series?  Yeah, Episode 2, where the show wasn't trying to rush anything (admittedly because they couldn't).

The bottom line is the story did an awesome job of developing the theme that maybe you actually SHOULDN'T care about the Iron Throne, and it did it brilliantly over several years.  It put in the time and story development to make us realize that the system Dany can't seem to see beyond despite all of her tough talk about breaking the wheel is fundamentally broken, and GRRM used the threat of the White Walkers to demonstrate this.  I very much believe the books will give them a more fulfilling motivation besides the painfully lazy D&D "AI gone rogue" spin or the overused "pure evil" line.  To the poster who said "Well what about Joffrey and Ramsay!!!!" one was a incest-born kid who was RAISED to think he was above everyone else ... he's a product of his upbringing ... and the other was a bastard whose father raped his mother and was a hard man with no love to show his son.  Why do you think Ramsay turned out the way he did?  Again, D&D were smart enough to know they couldn't make the Night King pure evil, so they went with that he's a machine on a program ... disappointing choice, but they could have made it work.  Don't make him ing smile up at Dany after surviving dragon fire, though, if you want us to think of him as simply an unfortunate, death-bringing product of his creation.  They wrote scenes for shock value and to fulfill cliches, and this was a perfect example.  The White Walkers were mindless killing machines when D&D needed them to be, and they were more complex than that other times (like letting Sam live north of the Wall and the NK showing a special interest in Jon earlier in the series).

They scrapped it all.  I love GoT, and I will be tuned in every week until it's over.  Heck, I made this thread, didn't I?  However, your blinders are THICK if you can't see why a fan would be disappointed with this "conclusion" to the show's greatest plot.  Tell yourself what you want, but this isn't how it's going down in the books.  The dreams, prophecies, religious texts, lore, histories and more of the books have been heavily invested in, and that is what made this fantasy special - it was an EERILY realistic world in all ways but one: the higher mysteries that captivated us such as dragons, magic and ... yes ... the White Walkers.  Episode 3 was visually perfect and contained some truly amazing moments.  I can admit that.  If you can't admit that parts were rushed and at least TRY to see why at least half of the fan base (and probably more from what I have been seeing) is let down, well ... D&D would be proud, lol.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 10:35:53 AM »

Thanks for insulting my intelligence based on the fact I liked this episode.

I don't have to hate it because you did.

I did not insult your intelligence.  I DID insinuate that you are being too easy on the episode and D&D in general out of loyalty to the show, seemingly defending every choice they made.  It's equally annoying that those who didn't like the plot decision they made are being treated as either total haters that were never going to be happy (bullshlt) or people that *don't get it* or *don't appreciate what D&D did* (even more bullshlt).  I didn't "hate it," either, which you would know if you read my response - something I doubt, given the length of your post.

The show made a controversial choice to quickly, efficiently and - worst of all - SIMPLY dispatch of the series' longest standing and most ominous threat without much lore or a big payoff moment.  You should be able to understand why people are upset even if you are not.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 01:00:00 PM »

I'll respond to it in more detail when I have time (had a slow morning), but I was not directing this at any one person in particular and meant it as a catch-all critique of some of the shlt I have seen thrown out there toward people who were disappointed.  I did not feel like they honored what was implicitly promised through their own foreshadowing and hinting, and I acknowledge that as nothing more than my own opinion.
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RINO Tom
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E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2019, 09:26:27 AM »

My big problem with the episode is that their "twist" is actually a punch in the balls. They've spent the last four-ish seasons basically Renly-ing most major power players in the South (Tyrells, Martells, High Sparrow, etc.) or just killing them off because they don't have a purpose (read: don't do anything, but can't make cock jokes). When all of this happened, I justified it as them just doing what they need to to get to the "real war, the White Walkers". Then they took that, ripped it to pieces, urinated on it, formed it into a paper machete fleshlight, ed it, then gave it back to me.

I don't really care whether you (not anybody in particular) liked the episode. It's just bad storytelling to pump up a threat for years and years and then squash it midseason.

I did the battle portion of the episode. It was a bit too dark at times, and I wish they actually killed people (Sam, Jaime, Brienne).
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RINO Tom
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E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 10:00:28 AM »
« Edited: May 02, 2019, 10:38:06 AM by RINO Tom »

My big problem with the episode is that their "twist" is actually a punch in the balls. They've spent the last four-ish seasons basically Renly-ing most major power players in the South (Tyrells, Martells, High Sparrow, etc.) or just killing them off because they don't have a purpose (read: don't do anything, but can't make cock jokes). When all of this happened, I justified it as them just doing what they need to to get to the "real war, the White Walkers". Then they took that, ripped it to pieces, urinated on it, formed it into a paper machete fleshlight, ed it, then gave it back to me.

I don't really care whether you (not anybody in particular) liked the episode. It's just bad storytelling to pump up a threat for years and years and then squash it midseason.

I did the battle portion of the episode. It was a bit too dark at times, and I wish they actually killed people (Sam, Jaime, Brienne).

Mate, you literally said that people who liked the episode were stupid.

No, I didn't.  In response to posters in this thread insinuating that people who didn't like it just weren't getting something/seeing what D&D were trying to do/missed the Arya foreshadowing/etc., they CERTAINLY aren't the ones who should be throwing out those accusations, because from what I have seen on the Internet ... if there ARE any stupid people here, they tended to be the ones who were defending the writing of the episode.  I did NOT say that people who liked it were all stupid.

Anyway, I am so sick of arguing about this episode with people, so here is my super simplified opinion on the writing: If you are going to kill the White Walkers in Episode 3 and focus on Cersei as the final villain, you need to devote a lot more (now clearly wasted) time in Episodes 1 and 2 diving a bit more into their backstory to properly build up for that final moment and pay off some of the build up with Bran "NEEDING" to become the Three Eyed Raven a bit more ... the reason it was "shocking" for Arya to kill the Night King then and there is because most people didn't feel ready for it story-wise, not because it was a brilliant twist.  I have no inherent issue with Cersei being the final villain, but it felt very rushed the way they disposed of the White Walkers.  The lore and higher mysteries were so heavily emphasized in the books and previous seasons that it just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people if you wrap them up in one episode and put 95% of the effort into the visuals (which were nothing short of phenomenal) and 5% into any sort of payoff for the mystery.  You can come at me with any sort of specific rebuttal (i.e., "The White Walkers are SUPPOSED to be mysterious!"), but there will always be a rebuttal back ("You can provide conclusion to a story line and still leave it mysterious, ala the finale to The Leftovers), and we would just go round and round.

I loved the episode until that ending, and I would have even been more than okay with that ending if it had been in Episode 5 ... I just hold the view that you either need to make the White Walkers the main threat or you need to delve into their back story in Episodes 1 and 2 ... they did neither, and I was disappointed, simple as that.

EDIT: This is kind of depressing to argue about ... we all love Game of Thrones.  When people critique it, they are - by and large - not just being haters.  They feel genuinely sad that a great show could have been even greater by sticking to its roots, and they feel betrayed to a degree.  Again, not saying we're right, but understand that we complain out of heartbreak, not out of pure disdain.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2019, 01:19:24 PM »

DECENT enough episode once you have accepted the dumbed down type of show we are getting from now on.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2019, 03:28:03 PM »

The one Bronn scene had me in stitches. Absolutely hilarious and, presumably, correct.
After that scene one could hope the closing words of the final episode will be:
"All hail His Grace, Bronn of House Blackwater, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm".

One can only hope. Tongue My preferred dark horse involves Sansa in combination with either Tyrion or hte Hound.

So do people think that's the last we see of Sam, Gilly, and Tormund, or will some subset of them be back for the finale?

Also, I'm still wondering if the demise of the White Walkers means the show is totally done with the  supernatural angle, or if there might still be some supernatural twist at the end.  The one hint in this episode is when Davos muses about what the Lord of Light really wants.  Will there still be some kind of LoL witchcraft coming into play at the end?


I don't know about "magic" directly, but I would hope for something that helps to tie up the theological/mystical/supernatural aspect of the show to put the followers of the Lord of Light and the threat of the White Walkers into a larger framework. While Davos could foreshadow some grander explanation, I have a feeling it'll remain a metaphorical expression of the audience's frustration.

I mean, Daenerys has always been a psychopath. Honestly this ending makes sense and I like it.
I mean, she freed thousands of slaves. Not sure how she's a psychopath when the only "evil" thing she's done so far was justifiably burning the Tarlys.
Well there was crucifying the Masters, and randomly choosing one who might or might not be innocent of working with the Sons of the Harpy to be torn apart by her dragons.

I can't think of a particular act off the top of my head, but the insistence on her right to rule as a monarch combined with her one-time possession of what are essentially three nukes (which she held and holds a monopoly on) are in my mind reason enough for concern.

The last sentence is so true. Sad  D&D were on TV the other day and said "we're not going to answer that" when asked if the White Walkers were for sure done in the storyline.  The sad thing is, their thought process probably was, "oh, this will be hilarious, everyone will freak out!"  They don't even understand why people are frustrated with the abandonment of the (as you so aptly put it) "cosmic" elements and themes of the stories for the sake of two nobles fighting for the chair like every other time in history.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2019, 09:23:38 AM »

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2019, 09:38:43 AM »

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Okay, I'm sorry, get over it?  Lol.  It was as a retort to the insinuation that the people complaining about the writing *didn't get* something or were missing something ... i.e., I would argue if there IS a side to this debate that is being a bit less intellectual about analyzing this season - which I was NOT saying there is - then there would be a better case for it being the defenders of D&D who were dumbing down their arguments to line up with what they wanted.

I have lost the motivation to try to convince people that character arcs, emotionally powerful storytelling and logic-driven plot have been scrapped for the sake of spectacle ... if you disagree at this point, you will never agree.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2019, 04:51:27 PM »

This episode was actually an improvement over the last one. The writing and characters were still crap but I was at least entertained rather than bored out of my skull.

Lol, yep ... if the writing is going to be awful, there might as well be some fire and shlt.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2019, 10:23:26 AM »

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2019, 10:43:33 AM »
« Edited: May 14, 2019, 10:52:04 AM by RINO Tom »

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

"I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that."  What about this sentence gives you the idea that I "missed" that GRRM will have this happen in the books?  As you have said *ad nauseam*, they were given very basic bullet points by GRRM - ala Dany will light up King's Landing and the White Walkers will be defeated ... the problem, as has also been said *ad nauseam* is D&D are so ing awful that they can't work with just bullet points to make a good story; they need the whole thing spelled out for them, as it was for the first five seasons.  Surely, you can see the semantics in the TONS of different ways Dany could have lit up King's Landing, and I refuse to believe you don't think it could have been done in a more emotionally satisfying way consistent with her character arc and past actions.

Dude, I am starting to think you ARE D&D ... for several reasons.

EDIT: Since you will probably take this all kinds of personally, I will go on the record as saying I am not insulting your intelligence as a person ... I am sure that you are smarter than I am.  However, you are very clearly subverting your own intelligence (kind of like Dan & Dave sUbVeRtEd ExPeCtAtIoNs!!) all in the name of defending two pseudo-intellectual hacks who couldn't give fewer shlts about you or me or any other fan that loves this story.  There is a reason this season is receiving so much hate, and it's not some inherent problem with the GoT fan base ... which literally encompasses millions of different kinds of people.  It's because it could be so much better, and the spectacularly weak link of the writing has become a huge black eye on otherwise excellent visuals, acting, directing, etc.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2019, 11:00:03 AM »

one things is clear, some people are WAY too emotionally involved in a television show/book series.

Guilty.  As.  Charged!

That was my bad getting too into this series, and no, I am not being sarcastic.  Makes this shltshow worse. :/
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 03:54:43 PM »

If the leaks are true (and they have been at least 95% true so far) then we are getting one of the most non-sensical endings I have ever seen to a show.

Even at this stage, I will not look at leaks ... but this would not surprise me at all. :/
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RINO Tom
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E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2019, 09:20:08 AM »

Did you all think we were dealing with high art here?  'cause we never were.  This is and always has been goofy elf and fairy, knights and damsels bull spit.  It literally features dragons, were you expecting the greatest story ever told?  FREAKING DRAGONS!  Now there is a petition to remake season 8?  Holy hell people, you're not owed a perfect show (as if that was even possible with you finicky phuques).


DRAGONS!

You usually put more effort into your posts, but I see you have deliberately dumbed them down to make fun of people upset about this writing.  How ridiculous is it to suggest that *fantasy* can't also be high art?!  Fantasy is set in a hypothetical universe with different laws of nature, but it is not just anything goes.  WTF does the inclusion of dragons have to do with competent writing?  This show WAS high art for the first five seasons - I have watched them all plenty of times.  Season 6 was even pretty good.  Seasons 7 and 8 took the exact attitude you do toward GoT's fans, and that is why they have sucked.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2019, 04:54:00 PM »

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

Threatening someone with death is not "excessive vitriol". It's taken to a whole different level that's not acceptable on any level.

You keep bringing up "death threats" made against you that were by people not on Atlas. At least 10 times. It sucks that people suck, but dude, it's really getting old and it sounds like you need to see a counselor if it's bothering you that much that you have to repeat that ad nauseum here as a deflection point for when you get butthurt that people have legitimate criticisms of the poor show writing in Season 8. I'm sorry someone else on a completely different website threatened your life. That is probably a scary thing. But you have repeatedly lumped RINO Tom and anyone else who dares criticize season 8 in with that threat undeservedly. No one on this website threatened your life. So please stop treating it as we did.

No, I'm just a completely stupid moron who knows nothing about anything decent. At least that's the impressions I get from here.

God, I hate this fanbase.

me me Me mE ME

Good job on not actually responding to anything. Not that I should expect anything different at this point.

I don't want to clog up the irony thread with stuff about a TV show, but dude ... look back at your response to people!  They'll bring up a problem they have with the show's writing and you have thrown out plenty of non sequiturs about how someone online wants to kill you.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,002
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2019, 05:11:47 PM »

^ No one here has threatened to kill you, so maybe you could just leave that one in the rear view mirror?  People here have typed at length about their specific concerns with the writing, and you have not extended the same effort toward defending the writing.  You just deflect because there are aspiring murderers and apparent stalkers out there who happen to share our view ??

And you touched on one of our points: D&D have demonstrated that they are very good at their jobs when they have source material but lack the creativity and storytelling prowess to put a good product out there without it.
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