Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

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That was very much a first episode; more concerned with setting up conflicts for the upcoming episodes than anything else.

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I generally approved ... 8/10.  It was a semi-rushed (by necessity) episode to set up the next two.  The moment with Sam was top notch and kind of stole the show.  Visually, it was flawless.

Pumped for next week, which interestingly looks like it will contain the start of a battle (from watching the preview).

P.S.  I LOVED the scene at the Last Hearth.  I was worried they would dumb down the White Walkers a bit too much in this rushed final season, and - while I guess they still could - it was refreshing to see them emphasize the spiral symbol right off the bat in the premiere ... it gives me some hope that they will still dive into the mythology of the White Walkers a bit more.  Also, for people who think that the living will win the Battle of Winterfell in Episode 3 and defeat the Night King and then turn their attention toward Cersei in Kings Landing (~50% of the fan base from what I have seen), you are now predicting that the Night King will literally be in TWO episodes and will only see battle action in one ... not buying it.  Our crew is definitely going to have to retreat south.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the gang is going to get it's ass kicked in Episode 3 and have to stage a retreat.

I guess we all knew that Kid Umber was dead the second Sansa told him to go bring his people back (what no ravens to Umber?). 

I like that Cersei expressed our disappointment at not having elephants.  As a book nerd I'm still mad that the whole Rickon goes to the isle of the super wildlings and their unicorn creatures got ditched.  Also cranky that House Manderly was never part of the show as they seemed quite skilled in the books and their ships would be handy for a retreat.  Of course, that's probably where Yara comes in.  Again, as a book nerd having it done via House Reed and the crannogmen would be cool (and Meera's still out there somewhere) but that ain't gonna happen.  Yara just gets to sail up wherever and give them a lift.

The Bran-Jamie reunion was a great one cause Jamie gets the same look everyone gets from Bran, except Jamie don't know that.

I mean, you can say that, but think about it: if they retreat where exactly will the final battle be? Winterfell is probably THE most iconic location in the series. At this point, Winterfell and the Red Keep are the only two places on the map in the opening and the city is deeply tied to both magic and the Stark's identity. Nowhere else in the North comes close to its importance; if they retreat from Winterfell where would they go? Nowhere but Winterfell works in a narrative sense for the final battle unless they flee all the way to King's Landing, which doesn't seem very likely to fit into five episodes while still dealing with Cersei.

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So it looks more and more like they're going for the "mad queen" path for Daenerys, with an ultimate betrayal by Tyrion leading to her end. I don't like it. Putting aside whether or not its a satisfying ending for her arc, they've done an awful job setting it up. Even in this episode Dany is still making good decisions that you might expect to be emotionally difficult for her, like giving Robert's son Storm's End. The most questionable thing she did this episode was order the immediate march south, but even that had its proponents besides her. When Tyrion disagreed with her plan to attack King's Landing and sought negotiations, Dany agreed...which is how we got the end of the episode.

Where, exactly, is Varys getting his "you fear her and she's a terrible queen" thing? What has Dany actually done to warrant that? At this point, I'd argue that she hasn't and that when Tyrion and Varys suddenly but inevitably betray her in two episodes it'll feel rushed and  unnecessary.

This is to say nothing of the books where I think there's a good argument that GRRM will be building a "mad queen" angle and that the buildup starts with Dany's dreams after she fled Drogon at the end of aDWD. But none of that setup happened in the show.

Plus, on an unrelated note, I have NO idea how they think that Jon is clearly the better ruler. His last two leadership positions ended up with him 1) murdered by his subordinates because he took no heed of their strong feelings and did what he wanted ignoring them and 2) giving up his crown without considering the strong opinions of his subordinates or informing them of anything until it was a fait acompli and a foreign army was present to enforce it. Jon would not hesitate to ignore political reality/his nobles if he thought a course of action was correct. He'd make an awful winner of the iron throne.

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Ugh...that was an awful episode!

Also this. Though I'd say the first 10 minutes or so were great.

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So, it is a foregone conclusion that Missandei's murder will make Daenerys go full tyrant, leading to Tyrion conspiring with Sansa to oust her?

I think that would require Sansa to go south for some reason. I doubt she will.

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Thanks, I hate it.

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Arya was in the preview...I'm not really sure what they're doing with her now. Are they having her stick around to kill Daenerys? If so, what was the point of Sandor's last words to her?

Yep, D&D ruined a perfectly good show. WTF was the point of the Golden Company?

At least Dany will go out a queen.

The point of the Golden Company was to be a tool that D&D could use to make it look like Cersei wasn't immediately doomed as soon as Drogon sneezed in their direction. They had no interest in the Golden Company beyond that use as a tool, so they got rid of them as soon as they could. Basically the same thing they did with the whole of the Vale and Dorne.

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The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

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The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Watch it right here and tell me exactly at what point are the Tarlys holding weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXGBZ1s5k9Q

They and the Lannister soldiers had been disarmed at that point; they were POWs. Dany executed them because they did not want to bend the knee, ie. acknowledge her as queen. Following that logic, I suppose it would have been OK with you if she had just first asked the unarmed peasants which they preferred, her or Cersei, and then burned the ones who preferred Cersei?

Making an example of openly rebellious lords is not unique to Daenerys. Nobody considered Tywin Lannister crazy after he exterminated House Tarbeck and then trapped the 300 members of House Reyne in a mine and had it flooded so they drowned when they were offering to negotiate. In fact, it only made his stature grow. The WISDOM of Danaerys' decision to execute Tarly is certainly questionable, but there is clearly a reason for her actions and it wasn't treated as an outrageous act in-universe. Something that was true of all of the actions you've mentioned until today's burning of KL.

I don't think anyone has denied that Daenerys tends to overpunish. But that doesn't lead to her massacring civilians for no reason. The show did not establish that as something she would ever do and that, I think, is where the real issue is.

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Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Tywin as an example of a character who's just as cruel as Dany-- really? What an awful comparison. Say what you will about Tywin, but he was never arbitrary with his cruelty. He didn't enjoy butchery; he did exactly what it took for him to preserve his family's position and nothing more. That's what Castamere and the Sack of King's Landing were all about. Remember when he said "When your enemies to to their knees and beg forgiveness, you must be merciful?" To contrast: when Dany kills people, they're often people who are already at her mercy (her brother, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, the slave masters of Mereen). Worse, she does all this while telling people that they're being "liberated," something so despicable not even Joffrey or Ramsey Bolton would have deluded themselves into believing it. Like the morons who enjoy her character, she has fully convinced herself that she is the hero of her story, and this allows her to do virtually anything without fear of repercussions.

Defending Tywin and the institution of slavery is an odd choice. The more I think back through the series, the more cruel and arbitrary actions of Tywin's come up. We don't get to see Tywin's thought process like we do with Dany, so I can't really say how he felt when he ordered the Reynes of Castamere be drowned as they were attempting to negotiate. But from what we do see and hear through the series, Tywin had no scruples about sending Ser Gregor to murder smallfolk throughout the Riverlands, none about sacking King's Landing and having Aegon/Rhaenys murdered, none about hostages other innocent people being killed during the Defiance of Duskendale, and of course none about the Red Wedding. Plenty of the people Tywin had murdered were innocent, defenseless, and uninvolved with the political struggle. Tywin may have talked about mercy, but he was clearly being hypocritical (a pretty common thing for him. See also: every interaction involving Tyrion) when he said as much. Is his complete disregard for non-Lannister life really what would make his actions more sane than Daenerys's?

And I'm not sure how you can argue that Daenerys wasn't liberating the slaves of Slavers Bay without some kind of Uncle Tom "happiness in slavery" argument. You can accuse her of shortsightedness in HOW she liberated the slaves and retaliated against the masters; basically the entirety of the Meereen arc is her having to deal with the consequences of that.

As for her believing she's the "hero of her story" that's exactly what makes her interesting: in many ways (being the last Targaryen, dragons, her rapidly improving fortunes from nothing at the series beginning, being hailed as a liberating conqueror, and seemingly fulfilling the prophecies about the Stallion who Mounts the World, Azor Ahai, and the Prince who was Promised) the universe backs up the idea that she is a destined ruler. But ASOIAF is never cut-and-dry deal and her having to deal with the reality of issues that often directly arise from her pursuit of her "destined path" like her dragons eating children, revenge guerrilla campaigns from the dispossessed slave owners, and better claimants to the throne in book-Aegon and Jon is what makes her story compelling.

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Looks like the leaks were correct. Boooooo

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I wonder how the Rowans, Redwynes, Florents and ESPECIALLY the Hightowers who barely tolerated the claim of the Tyrells would feel about being lorded over by a commoner mercenary.

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Any possible guesses as to where Drogon is taking Daenerys Targaryen's body?  I have heard a theory that he's taking her to Volantis, the home of the Temple of the Lord of Light, where maybe they can restore her to life the way Melisandre did with Jon Snow. 

Perhaps King Bran the Broken has made the same guess, which is why he is so keen to know where Drogon has flown. 

I would assume he was either taking her to Dragonstone or, more likely, the ruins of Valyria.