Notre Dame is burning. (user search)
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  Notre Dame is burning. (search mode)
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Author Topic: Notre Dame is burning.  (Read 15260 times)
Lechasseur
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« on: April 15, 2019, 03:59:52 PM »

just heard that, i'm happy about that, apparently the structure in general will survive as well
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Lechasseur
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E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 04:09:06 PM »
Quote from: Illiniwek on April 15, 2019, 04:05:41 PM
Quote from: Lechasseur on April 15, 2019, 03:59:52 PM

just heard that, i'm happy about that, apparently the structure in general will survive as well

That is very good news. May I ask who is reporting this?

Now they're just saying they're optimistic that they'll save the towers, they aren't mentioning the rest of the structure anymore.

I'm watching the live feed on CBS (I'm on CBS just because it's the first live video that appeared on my facebook feed, otherwise normally I'd watch this type of thing on the BBC)
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 06:48:19 PM »
Quote from: Keyboard Jacobinism on April 15, 2019, 05:01:59 PM
With all the irreperable loss let's just be grateful the structure is saved. It would be absolutely heathwrenching to see Paris without Notre Dame.

Agreed, it's my favorite Parisian monument (and frankly the one real French people care about the most)
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 06:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Keyboard Jacobinism on April 15, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: Tartarus Sauce on April 15, 2019, 05:13:25 PM
This is absolutely terrible, but it looks like it won't be as catastrophic as originally predicted. They seemed to be indicating they thought the whole structure would be lost just two hours ago. Losing the spires and the stain-glassed windows is a huge blow, though. Very sad, but thankfully the structure as a whole has survived.

I wonder if wouldn't it be better, due to impossibility of reconstructing the interior without it reeking artificiality, to turn the renovated cathedral into some sort of museum. Just a thought.

NO!
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 06:50:02 PM »
Quote from: DavidB. on April 15, 2019, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: Keyboard Jacobinism on April 15, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: Tartarus Sauce on April 15, 2019, 05:13:25 PM
This is absolutely terrible, but it looks like it won't be as catastrophic as originally predicted. They seemed to be indicating they thought the whole structure would be lost just two hours ago. Losing the spires and the stain-glassed windows is a huge blow, though. Very sad, but thankfully the structure as a whole has survived.

I wonder if wouldn't it be better, due to impossibility of reconstructing the interior without it reeking artificiality, to turn the renovated cathedral into some sort of museum. Just a thought.
Why would it seem artificial? So many churches have burned down over the centuries and have been rebuilt perfectly and beautifully. Turning it into a museum means accepting to close the chapter on this church and, by extension, on Paris' and France's Christian identity. Which would seem completely unacceptable to me. In that case, it would not just be a metaphor for European civilization burning (fully expecting this to be deleted again) - it would literally be that.

Exactly, Notre Dame will not be the new Coventry!
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 06:50:28 PM »
Quote from: Filuwaúrdjan on April 15, 2019, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: Keyboard Jacobinism on April 15, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
I wonder if wouldn't it be better, due to impossibility of reconstructing the interior without it reeking artificiality, to turn the renovated cathedral into some sort of museum. Just a thought.

A Cathedral is a living building; there's no reason why it cannot be a restoration of a restoration (as it would be: and almost certainly will be). The memory, meaning and history lost won't be replaceable and it won't be as good - even if we ignore the difficulties of replicating techniques of the Middle Ages, even replicating those used in the great restoration of the 19th century will be hard going - but it will still be Notre-Dame, the great Cathedral of Paris. Consider the rebuilding of Reims Cathedral a century ago now.

Exactly
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 06:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Filuwaúrdjan on April 15, 2019, 05:44:25 PM
Anyway, the survival of the West End is, all things considered, something to be extraordinarily thankful for.

Yes, if there was a part of the cathedral that had to survive above all others, it was the West end.
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2019, 04:17:35 AM »
So what do you all think of Macron's architectural competition to design a new roof and spire for Notre Dame?

I think it's a Massive HP move.

Tbh different materials will most likely have to be used and I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a new design being used (although rebuilding them to the closest design possible to the old ones would be my preference), but the roof and spire need to be rebuilt in Gothic style at the very least. On the other hand, I think Macron wants a "modern" design built in glass or something like that. If that's the case, I'd rather just not have the roof or spire rebuilt.
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Lechasseur
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E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 02:31:18 PM »
https://www.nouvelobs.com/societe/20190503.OBS12448/les-francais-seront-consultes-sur-la-reconstruction-de-notre-dame-de-paris.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1rvzUc9-0xyukeFnuwIlLC25BON3nrJIozK1UcjNozyeO101Xs2xv_XLY#Echobox=1556899022

"The French (people) will be consulted on the reconstruction of Notre Dame"
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2019, 05:41:57 AM »

Yeah, Macron is going to do whatever he likes, regardless of what the people think.

Seriously that guy is so egotistical it isn't funny. I'm absolutely sick and tired of him, I'd vote for the left just to get him out at this point.
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2019, 05:43:07 AM »
Quote from: LaRouche Lives Forever! on May 05, 2019, 12:20:14 AM
I’ve always found Gothic architecture to be grotesque and sinister, but I can only imagine the cosmopolitan monument to secularism that will replace it. Surely it’ll be an architectural abortion.

I love Gothic architecture, but yeah I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2019, 04:13:44 PM »
Quote from: Crumpets on May 05, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
I reject the notion that cosmopolitcan secularism would want to ruin Notre Dame by building some IM Pei-style monstrosity. I really don't know if that trend really has a demographic supporting it beyond architects who want to make a name for themselves.

The government wants it. Macron for one has no respect for France's heritage, and then "Jupiter" wants to leave his mark on history by making a big modification to Notre Dame.
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2019, 04:14:34 PM »
For a while Merkel was my least favorite European leader, but now it's pretty easily "Jupiter" Macron.
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Lechasseur
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E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2019, 05:34:54 PM »
Quote from: Secret Cavern Survivor on May 05, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Lechasseur on May 05, 2019, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: Crumpets on May 05, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
I reject the notion that cosmopolitcan secularism would want to ruin Notre Dame by building some IM Pei-style monstrosity. I really don't know if that trend really has a demographic supporting it beyond architects who want to make a name for themselves.

The government wants it. Macron for one has no respect for France's heritage, and then "Jupiter" wants to leave his mark on history by making a big modification to Notre Dame.

Do you have any evidence for that? You know I'm no fan of FBM, but I don't think it's fair to just assume he has some ridiculous plans for Notre Dame just because he's a he's a megalomaniacal creep (which he is).

Well he is holding a comeption to choose the new design and did say he'd consider modern designs, if he's holding a competition and said that, we know what he wants.
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2019, 02:23:10 PM »
https://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/detail_l-architecte-belgo-parisien-vincent-callebaut-propose-son-projet-pour-notre-dame?id=10216877&fbclid=IwAR15bCg0vvWW__Ih4Kvt0IiiHWkDsGLZJqHrPENg1h2nwRL8eGOFJDhQvQk

A serious proposal for the restauration of Notre Dame...it's disgusting!
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2019, 01:34:54 PM »

Exactly, I'd rather see it be left as a ruin at this point.

Most French people want it restored the way it was, or at least have it fit the original style, but Macron and LREM don't care, they're adamant on having a modern monstrosity built.
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2019, 01:35:32 PM »
Quote from: Tintrlvr on May 11, 2019, 01:20:43 PM

It is very pretty, but it's not Notre Dame. Let this architect build his own cathedral somewhere else.

EXACTLY! You don't mix styles like that
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2019, 01:41:13 PM »
Quote from: Lechasseur on May 11, 2019, 01:34:54 PM

Exactly, I'd rather see it be left as a ruin at this point.

Most French people want it restored the way it was, or at least have it fit the original style, but Macron and LREM don't care, they're adamant on having a modern monstrosity built.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/culture/arts-expos/architecture/notre-dame-de-paris-les-francais-majoritairement-opposes-a-une-loi-d-exception-pour-accelerer-la-reconstruction-selon-un-sondage_3435847.html?fbclid=IwAR2SujHYEfTl6s9KqQgT0ABD9YUx53VSLHmOm_rN3cEOgResAUWZMwTZnP4

The proof the French are opposed to "reconstruction" in a modern design, and with these abortions called "designs" being submitted, that number will continue to rise. Anyone with decent taste will be opposed soon.
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2019, 01:42:55 PM »
« Edited: May 11, 2019, 01:47:28 PM by Lechasseur »
Quote from: Crumpets on May 05, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
I reject the notion that cosmopolitcan secularism would want to ruin Notre Dame by building some IM Pei-style monstrosity. I really don't know if that trend really has a demographic supporting it beyond architects who want to make a name for themselves.

You'd be surprised.

Our government and LREM fit that demographic and they support it.
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 03:27:21 PM »
Quote from: Hardline Remainer on May 12, 2019, 03:22:00 PM
I think a modern rebuild could be the right call, if done correctly. Look to the Reichstag for more. Trying to make it like it was as if the fire never happened and it was still the 1300s just seems disingenuous. Preserve and salvage all that stands, but build the roof to represent contemporary France (and TBF, I've always found the interior of the Notre Dame far too dark.)

Eww gross no!

Leave it as it is now if that's your plan
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Lechasseur
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E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2019, 08:31:51 AM »
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/notre-dame-hidalgo-veut-une-renovation-a-l-identique-de-la-toiture-et-la-charpente-20190526?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3-GdnN9xkldBg737CTQuitbgQ5Dgr5KplKfcPEWA383vvJY2u3Nk8c5L8#Echobox=1558869035

Even the PS mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, wants Notre Dame restored identically to how it was before. Jupiter needs to listen.
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Lechasseur
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E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2019, 05:57:22 PM »
https://www.thelocal.fr/20190528/french-senate-says-notre-dame-must-be-restored-exactly-to-how-it-was?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR2aFFGIb_O1rjm5Lv9kBbmzI4MxbFg41O0HcYs29j8MnTdYf71jDhrSg8E

The French Senate says Notre Dame must be restored exactly how it was
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2019, 08:36:24 AM »
https://www.lemonde.fr/culture/article/2019/06/05/notre-dame-desaccord-profond-entre-l-assemblee-et-le-senat_5471717_3246.html

The National Assembly and the Senate can't come up with a compromise on the Notre Dame restoration (or as LREM would say, "reconstruction") bill, and given in France if both houses can't agree, the lower house has the last word, it looks like Macron will get the bill he wants and will be able to do whatever he wants to Notre Dame.
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2019, 04:13:39 PM »
For the record, not the same article I posted in the France thread (so I don't get any new complaints):

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la-croix.com/amp/1201053673

According to the dean of Notre Dame Cathedral, the design competition will only concern the spire and the square in front of the Cathedral, so if he's right there's no chance of a monstrosity being built to replace the roof.
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Lechasseur
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Political Matrix
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2019, 04:16:31 PM »
Also, the design competition will normally be held in November or December.
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