LC 2.10 Ammendment to the Standing Orders (Statute)

[Former President tack50]

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds a majority of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a simple majority required for the objection to be overruled.

Sponsor: tack50

Debate time on this bill has started and shall last for no less than 72 hours

[Former President tack50]

Well, this ammendment comes after we realized that it was incredibly easy to stop a bill in its tracks in Lincoln. Not only that, but it was also impossible to table a bill. In a worst case scenario, said bill would become frozen forever.

This ammendment reduces the required thresholds to override a "filibuster" to a majority (as opposed to 2/3) and also gives the Chancellor the ability to call for a tabling vote on any piece of legislation.

[Pyro]

I support this bill.

This change is necessary in order to ensure the Council runs smoothly and efficiently.

[YE]

Cloture threshold is usually two-thirds in most assemblies throughout the game FWIW.

[Former President tack50]

Cloture threshold is usually two-thirds in most assemblies throughout the game FWIW.

To be fair, while cloture in most assemblies is indeed 2/3, overuling an objection to a final vote generally only requires a simple majority and such a vote can be called by the speaker. As of now, if someone objects to a final vote, the only way forwards in Lincoln is for the chancellor to call a cloture vote (which requires 2/3).

However, I think I've finally understood the difference between cloture and just objecting to a final vote. A final vote call can't really be made if there are ammendments pending or debate is ongoing, while a cloture vote is designed specifically for those occasions.

I guess a reasonable compromise might be an ammendment among these lines? (not officially offering it yet):

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds a majority of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation. A motion for cloture shall overrule any ammendments presented and any ongoing debates, but any votes which are already open shall stay open; with the motion for cloture being opened inmediately after said open vote is closed.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a simple majority two thirds majority required for the objection to be overruled if the legislation has been on the floor for less than 240 hours; and a simple majority required if the legislation has been on the floor for more than 240 hours.

This way, a cloture vote can be called by the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition (to avoid the Chancellor personally filibustering the opposition's bills). This cloture vote would inmediately overrule any debate and proceed inmediately to a final vote.

Meanwhile, a standard call for a final vote would work the same as in Fremont, the South or the Federal Congress; with the minor difference that only 240 hours (10 days) would be required for the threshold to drop instead of 336 hours (14 days).

The first part is to avoid a Councillor trying to filibuster a bill by simply proposing multiple frivolous ammendments. Unlike Fremont and the South, Lincoln's speaker does not have the ability to disregard frivolous or impractical ammendments; with all ammendments requiring consideration.

Finally, this restores the old special tabling rules. I am tempted to give the tabling ability to the Leader of the Opposition as well or even to any councillor, but I guess the special tabling rules strengthen the government/opposition dynamic.

[S019]

This amendment is mostly good, but I do not support not allowing filibusters of bills that have been debated for over 240 hours, and there are some current bills (Single Payer law), that are out of the mainstream and should be filibustered. I think a fair compromise would be requiring 60% of the entire council. With our current council, that would be 6 Councilors voting to override the filibuster. The 60% threshold is used by many institutions and is a fair compromise, if this bill is passed, people will just wait for 240 hours to pass and then hold a vote to bypass the filibuster. The loophole in this bill, undermines the power of the minority party

[Former President tack50]

This amendment is mostly good, but I do not support not allowing filibusters of bills that have been debated for over 240 hours, and there are some current bills (Single Payer law), that are out of the mainstream and should be filibustered. I think a fair compromise would be requiring 60% of the entire council. With our current council, that would be 6 Councilors voting to override the filibuster. The 60% threshold is used by many institutions and is a fair compromise, if this bill is passed, people will just wait for 240 hours to pass and then hold a vote to bypass the filibuster. The loophole in this bill, undermines the power of the minority party

I would rather not have the dysfunctional system of filibustering, thank you. Also, I remind you that since the Council is capped at 4-9 members, a 60% and 66% threshold are functionally equivalent except in the case of a 5 member council (where a 60% threshold requires 3 legislators and a 66% threshold requires 4)

Also, 240 hours are 10 days. I think that's plenty of time for a bill to be debated (hence why I deviated from the norm of 336 hours or 14 days as in the other 2 regions). The other 2 regions as well as the federal senate also allow to get past filibusters with a simple majority and not a 2/3 one, it's just that they require a bit more debate.

[Former President tack50]

Ok, so what does everyone else think about the ammendment? In particular, I'm the most conflicted on  the ammendment to section 2E (the cloture one). I wonder if that would make it too easy to kill debate.

Should I keep it or remove section 2.E entirely? (it's not that needed after all, as the final part is actually good enough for going to a final vote)

[Former President tack50]

With no real debate in quite a bit of time, I'm formally proposing the ammendment:

Ammendment L 2:22 to LC 2.10 Ammendment to the Standing Orders

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds a majority of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation. A motion for cloture shall overrule any ammendments presented and any ongoing debates, but any votes which are already open shall stay open; with the motion for cloture being opened inmediately after said open vote is closed.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a simple majority two thirds majority required for the objection to be overruled if the legislation has been on the floor for less than 240 hours; and a simple majority required if the legislation has been on the floor for more than 240 hours.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

I motion for a final vote, 24h to object

[S019]

I object, you should not place a time limit on filibusters

[Pyro]

I motion for cloture.

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a CLOTURE vote is now open on the following legislation

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds a majority of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation. A motion for cloture shall overrule any ammendments presented and any ongoing debates, but any votes which are already open shall stay open; with the motion for cloture being opened inmediately after said open vote is closed.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a simple majority two thirds majority required for the objection to be overruled if the legislation has been on the floor for less than 240 hours; and a simple majority required if the legislation has been on the floor for more than 240 hours.

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48h or until all Councillors have voted
As per the standing orders of the Lincoln Council, this vote requires a 2/3 vote in favour to be successful

[Former President tack50]

Aye

[Dipper Josh]

Aye

[Sirius_]

Aye

[Zaybay]

AYE

[S019]

NAY

[S019]

I would like to propose an amendment

Councillors, a CLOTURE vote is now open on the following legislation

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote of 60% of all Councilors who are voting.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds a majority of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation. A motion for cloture shall overrule any ammendments presented and any ongoing debates, but any votes which are already open shall stay open; with the motion for cloture being opened inmediately after said open vote is closed.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a simple majority two thirds majority required for the objection to be overruled if the legislation has been on the floor for less than 240 hours; and a simple majority required if the legislation has been on the floor for more than 240 hours.[/s]

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48h or until all Councillors have voted
As per the standing orders of the Lincoln Council, this vote requires a 2/3 vote in favour to be successful

[Former President tack50]

Since there is a cloture vote already, if the cloture vote is successful I am pretty much mandated to open a final vote, disregarding any ammendments.

I will bring it to the floor if this cloture vote fails though, but otherwise we will proceed to a final vote.

[Former President tack50]

The CLOTURE vote on LC 2.10 Ammendment to the Standing Orders is now closed

Aye: 5 (tack50, thr33, Dipper Josh, Ninja, Zaybay)
Abstain: 0
Nay: 1 (S019)
Not voting: 1 (Griffin)

Leave of Absence: 2 (Pyro, lfromnj)

So this vote passes

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a FINAL vote is now open on the following legislation

LC 2.10 Ammendment to the Standing Orders

Amendment to the Standing Orders:

1. The Standing Orders of the Lincoln Council shall be ammended as follows

Section 2. Movement of Legislation to the Floor
D. Each thread shall remain open until the bill either (a) becomes law via the Governor's signature, lack of Gubernatorial action, or referendum override, (b) fails to receive majority support from Council, (c) is sent to the public for a referendum, pursuant to Article I, Section 6 of the Comprehensive Constitutional Amendment, or (d) the Chancellor moves to revoke it from the floor, subject to a majority vote.

E. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition may move for cloture. Upon the concurrence of two-thirds of the membership, the Council shall end debate and the Speaker immediately declare a vote on the affected legislation. A motion for cloture shall overrule any ammendments presented and any ongoing debates, but any votes which are already open shall stay open; with the motion for cloture being opened inmediately after said open vote is closed.

Section 3. Legislative Debates and Voting
D. After the conclusion of the first 72 hours for debate, any Councillor or the Chancellor may call for a vote on said legislation. The Speaker shall open a vote if neither another Councillor nor the Chancellor objects within 24 hours of the call for a vote. If a Councillor objects to the motion within 24 hours, a vote shall be held on whether or not to proceed to a final vote, with a two thirds majority required for the objection to be overruled if the legislation has been on the floor for less than 240 hours; and a simple majority required if the legislation has been on the floor for more than 240 hours.

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48h or until all Councillors have voted

[Former President tack50]

Aye

[S019]

NAY

[Sirius_]

Aye