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  2016 U.S. Presidential Election (Moderators: TJ in Oregon, Silurian)
  Did Hillary Clinton really win the debates
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Author Topic: Did Hillary Clinton really win the debates  (Read 1369 times)
Da2017
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« on: May 07, 2019, 01:55:00 am »

The first debate was a win for sure. Trump did comeback in the second. Hillary might of played it too safe.
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Pericles
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 02:11:15 am »

Yes she did, all of them were clear wins for her, please stop the revisionist takes. She didn't run a perfect campaign but she did well in the debates (and Trump did badly), this is very clear and can be seen with how the post-debate polls showed she had won all three and that she surged from an even race to a near landslide poll lead (admittedly due in part to other factors and soon mostly undone by the Comey letter, but there haven't been many polling surges like the one she had historically). Now perhaps she could have won even more or won in a different way or done something different but to call it a loss or a draw is not true, she did win the debates and won them clearly so it's hard to see how that aspect of the campaign could realistically be improved much-it was the rest of her campaign and other events that ultimately cost her the presidency.
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Ilhan Apologist
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 05:01:28 pm »

I don't think the debates mattered at all, except for the second one which brought Trump back from the fallout after the tapes. Other than that, nobody was swayed by any debates, so there was no winner or loser.
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Fuzzy Stands With Angel Moms and Sanchez!
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 07:08:36 pm »

No.

Trump did what he had to do.  Hillary did not.
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Da2017
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 09:19:33 pm »
« Edited: May 07, 2019, 09:25:29 pm by Da2017 »

I don't think the debates mattered at all, except for the second one which brought Trump back from the fallout after the tapes. Other than that, nobody was swayed by any debates, so there was no winner or loser.

I think Trump successfully deflected the access hollywood tape some in the second debate by bringing up Bill infidelities. I did not think it was going to work.
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JG
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 07:26:47 am »

I don't think the debates mattered at all, except for the second one which brought Trump back from the fallout after the tapes. Other than that, nobody was swayed by any debates, so there was no winner or loser.

Except that polling average clearly shows that Hillary started to gain a lot after the first debate. But sure, let's ignore the facts and pretend Hillary never did anything good at all during the whole campaign.
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Ilhan Apologist
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2019, 03:41:46 pm »

I don't think the debates mattered at all, except for the second one which brought Trump back from the fallout after the tapes. Other than that, nobody was swayed by any debates, so there was no winner or loser.

Except that polling average clearly shows that Hillary started to gain a lot after the first debate. But sure, let's ignore the facts and pretend Hillary never did anything good at all during the whole campaign.

Lol you don't need to get so aggressive. I forgot that Hillary surged after the first debate, but you're right, she did win in that case. But my comment wasn't even meant to be an indictment of Hillary personally or to say that she did badly. Just that the country was polarized and everyone heard what they wanted to hear, so the debates didn't matter.
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Barron
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 09:45:34 pm »

Hillary won the 1st and 3rd, Donald won the 2nd.
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Pro-Life Single Issue Voter
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2019, 12:52:06 pm »

Hillary won the first, Pence won the VP debate, the second was a draw (but a Trump win in that people stopped talking about the Access Hollywood tape), and Trump de facto won the third because he got Hillary on record with some extremist abortion takes.
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Beet
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2019, 12:58:36 pm »

She won the first one.

Pence won the VP debate (by accusing Obama of being soft on Russia, ironically).

The second debate was only two days after the Access Hollywood tape. Trump was trying to save his campaign from a death blow. He ended up demolishing Hillary so badly, I've never seen bigger pwnage on a debate stage. I was driving home from a day of volunteering for Clinton PA and I was just stunned. But when I got home and logged online, I saw polls that showed Clinton winning the debate, and I wanted it to be true so badly, that I let it calm and ease my fears.

The third debate, Clinton won, but the MSM did their best to help Trump. The 1st three questions were about immigration, late term abortion, and guns, ALL issues good for Trump and bad for Clinton. Clinton still won, but it was another example of how the so-called "liberal media" helped Trump.
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Some of My Best Friends Are Gay
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2019, 01:24:39 pm »

Hillary won the first, Pence won the VP debate, the second was a draw (but a Trump win in that people stopped talking about the Access Hollywood tape), and Trump de facto won the third because he got Hillary on record with some extremist abortion takes.

Hillary's views on abortion had nothing to do with her losing the election, though.
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 09:20:07 pm »

Hillary won the first, Pence won the VP debate, the second was a draw (but a Trump win in that people stopped talking about the Access Hollywood tape), and Trump de facto won the third because he got Hillary on record with some extremist abortion takes.

Hillary's views on abortion had nothing to do with her losing the election, though.

This was one of the biggest factors in why Christians who viewed Trunp unfavorably for the whole calendar year somehow held their nose in voting for him. Scalia's death create the win because that signalled the last chance to save the pro life agenda. That is all SCOTUS appointments mean in the two thousand and tens. Hillary's debate answer - markedly less important
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 04:28:12 am »

Hillary won the 1st and 3rd, Donald won the 2nd.

This in a nutshell, but her wins were not by huge margins like people think, and I don't think they made any real difference except for the second one
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SInNYC
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 07:28:29 am »

It depends on how you define win. If you define win as having better answers to questions,  Hillary won 1/3 and 2 was closer as others have stated. But these wins did not net her votes she didnt already have.

But a debate is also about gaining other voters by addressing perceived problems. In Hillary's case, everybody knew she was a policy wonk but her perceived problems were likeability and whether she really stood for anything she said. She failed here and if anything made the situation worse.

Meanwhile Trump's problems were whether he was just some carnival barker and to a lesser degree whether he had any brains. The latter was less of a problem since Americans generally think a business person got rich because of brains and the Hillary campaign never really pointed out that Trump got rich by being born to the right parents (in fairness, Rubio did but that obviously didnt help him). I dont think Trump really helped his case much in the debates since he basically just threw incendiary bombs, but he didnt hurt himself either since his bombs were expected and at least germane to the issues.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2019, 11:44:14 pm »

Hillary won all 3 presidential debates. Pence won the VP debate.
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 06:46:14 pm »

Presidential debates don't have "winners." That's a dumb media clichť.

Unfortunately, HRC took this trope literally. Re-watch the first or third debate and this quickly becomes obvious. (The second is too horrifying for a re-view, but I assume that the same applies.) HRC debates as if she were in a competition, while Trump just performs.

NYU put on a demonstration to this effect not long after the actual debates. They hired a couple of actors to reenact them, but they cast each candidate as the opposite gender. Audience members were almost universally shocked by how much they disliked the actor's portrayal of HRC and by how drawn they were to the actress's portrayal of Trump.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2019, 07:06:12 pm »


NYU put on a demonstration to this effect not long after the actual debates. They hired a couple of actors to reenact them, but they cast each candidate as the opposite gender. Audience members were almost universally shocked by how much they disliked the actor's portrayal of HRC and by how drawn they were to the actress's portrayal of Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9FdRaTGEo

Just pick a random time stamp, it's all effective at proving the point.
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2019, 03:53:38 pm »

Presidential debates don't have "winners." That's a dumb media clichť.

Unfortunately, HRC took this trope literally. Re-watch the first or third debate and this quickly becomes obvious. (The second is too horrifying for a re-view, but I assume that the same applies.) HRC debates as if she were in a competition, while Trump just performs.

NYU put on a demonstration to this effect not long after the actual debates. They hired a couple of actors to reenact them, but they cast each candidate as the opposite gender. Audience members were almost universally shocked by how much they disliked the actor's portrayal of HRC and by how drawn they were to the actress's portrayal of Trump.

I've been saying that for quite a while. The idea of who 'won' is entirely subjective
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SN2903
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2019, 06:29:10 pm »
« Edited: May 21, 2019, 06:35:23 pm by SN2903 »

Trump won all 3 debates. Hillary came across an elitist snob in all 3 debates. The fact that she knew more didn't matter. Debates are more style than substance. Everyone knew Hillary was better on policy but she didn't come across likeable at all. Her presentation was awful. Trump came across as the outsider. Clinton was on the defensive for almost the entire 3 debates besides the question about whether or not Trump would accept the results.

Debate I: Hillary may have won on points but Trump held his own and with a low bar Trump won the debate.

Debate II: Not even close. One of the most lop sided debate wins I've ever seen. He discredited the  Clinton's successfully. The Bill infidelities argument was a stroke of a genius.

Debate III: The closest of the 3, but Trump wins similar to debate I by holding his own.
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Ilhan Apologist
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2019, 11:37:30 pm »

The fact that she knew more didn't matter. Debates are more style than substance. Everyone knew Hillary was better on policy but she didn't come across likeable at all.

Why do debates have to be charisma contests?
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gracile
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 02:15:26 pm »

Clinton objectively had the stronger debate performances, as indicated by responses to post-debate polling that showed the public was more receptive to Clinton's substantive grasp of issues. However, what many people don't understand is that Trump was not trying to "win" the debate in terms of policy knowledge and temperament, but rather remind members of the Republican base of his opponent's flaws and that he would undertake their most prescient political issues. This is most clear in the last debate when the discussion revolved around the Supreme Court.
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You're Still Going to Vote for Biden
politicalmasta73
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 09:25:41 pm »

First Debate- Arguably the clearest cut win for her. She seemed informed, meanwhile Trump was borderline incoherent.

Second Debate- Technically a Hillary debate win, but definitely the most narrow and I think it could have been WAY worse for Trump, considering pussygate was very much in the news. In fact, now that I look back, Hillary really only won the debate due to her decimation of Trump on that issue.

Third- Still a Hillary win, but narrower
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SN2903
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2019, 10:41:58 am »

First Debate- Arguably the clearest cut win for her. She seemed informed, meanwhile Trump was borderline incoherent.

Second Debate- Technically a Hillary debate win, but definitely the most narrow and I think it could have been WAY worse for Trump, considering pussygate was very much in the news. In fact, now that I look back, Hillary really only won the debate due to her decimation of Trump on that issue.

Third- Still a Hillary win, but narrower
Hillary did not win the 2nd debate. That is insane.
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You're Still Going to Vote for Biden
politicalmasta73
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2019, 03:36:48 pm »

First Debate- Arguably the clearest cut win for her. She seemed informed, meanwhile Trump was borderline incoherent.

Second Debate- Technically a Hillary debate win, but definitely the most narrow and I think it could have been WAY worse for Trump, considering pussygate was very much in the news. In fact, now that I look back, Hillary really only won the debate due to her decimation of Trump on that issue.

Third- Still a Hillary win, but narrower
Hillary did not win the 2nd debate. That is insane.
According to the metric I am using, polls, she appeared to have a slight edge, but admittedly it was practically a coin toss, and I could see a very strong argument saying that it actually helped Trump just because of the expectations game (he was expected to be abysmal, particularly after Pussygate.
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2019, 04:30:45 pm »

NYU put on a demonstration to this effect not long after the actual debates. They hired a couple of actors to reenact them, but they cast each candidate as the opposite gender. Audience members were almost universally shocked by how much they disliked the actor's portrayal of HRC and by how drawn they were to the actress's portrayal of Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9FdRaTGEo

Just pick a random time stamp, it's all effective at proving the point.


Wow. Just WOW!
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