State abortion laws megathread

[Person Man]

Roman?

Because it hails from a time somewhere between the Iron Age and the Medieval.

I don’t think Classical Romans really cared about abortion or at most, when it was disallowed, it was for “Romanian” reasons.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

[RINO Tom]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

A stretch, even for you.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I can maybe understand some restrictions in the third trimester, but six weeks is absurd. The whole idea of an embryo having a heartbeat at six weeks is a lie too.

“These bills present the idea that there’s something that looks like what you or a person on the street would call a baby – a thing that’s almost ready to go for a walk,” said Dr Jen Gunter, a gynecologist in Canada and the US who runs an influential blog. “In reality, you’re talking about something that’s millimeters in size and doesn’t look anything like that.”

That early in a pregnancy, Gunter said, an embryo does not have a heart – at least, not what we understand a human heart to be, with pumping tubes and ventricles. At six weeks, a human embryo throbs, but those tissues have not yet formed an organ, so the pulsing should not be confused with a heartbeat.

“When throbbing of some tissue begins, it’s not a heart,” said Dr Sara Imershein, a gynecologist and obstetrician in Falls Church, Virginia. “Really, we call it an embryo until about nine weeks from last menstrual period,” or roughly three weeks after the new laws prohibit termination of pregnancy.

'It's not a little child': gynecologists join the fight against six-week abortion bans

Being in an early stage of development doesn't mean it's not a heart. It beats, and the beat is a key vital sign. Ergo, heartbeat.

If a heartbeat can't be detected, the abortion won't be illegal in any case with this law.

[Gass3268]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

There’s a Monty Python bit about this.

[Person Man]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

There’s a Monty Python bit about this.

Imagine a world that crowded!

If this law does become a thing I hope that this law is enforced and adjudicated by castrated men who are vegitarians and wear hooded robes.

[Mopsus]

Roman?

Because it hails from a time somewhere between the Iron Age and the Medieval.

I don’t think Classical Romans really cared about abortion or at most, when it was disallowed, it was for “Romanian” reasons.

Roman fathers actually had the right to abandon their infant children outside the city walls if they were displeased with them. Rome was a very pro-choice society.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Honestly, at this point I'd take a Continental-style consensus around relatively-lax-but-not-incredibly-so abortion laws if it was what it took to stop the culture wars from escalating even further. I simply don't understand what the culture warrior (yes, On Both Sides) endgame is at this point, unless it's either actualization of the Jesusland map from 2004 or complete political and social subjugation of the perceived enemy.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Also known as the Supreme Court bait bill.

A group's last middle finger as they're being lowered into their graves....

That just about sums up the Trump era.

[Person Man]

Honestly, at this point I'd take a Continental-style consensus around relatively-lax-but-not-incredibly-so abortion laws if it was what it took to stop the culture wars from escalating even further. I simply don't understand what the culture warrior (yes, On Both Sides) endgame is at this point, unless it's either actualization of the Jesusland map from 2004 or complete political and social subjugation of the perceived enemy.

You mean like what happened in the USSR in 1991, in the PRC in 1949, or in Spain in 1938?

[Hammy]

Are there a lot of pro-choice voters in GA-6 and GA-7 that you are under the impression were previously supporting Republicans but will refuse to now?

No, but there are probably a lot of people this will motivate to show up in the first place that wouldn't normally.

[Indy Texas]

It's funny how much of an overlap there is between the people who want to stick a recently born Salvadoran infant in a cage in the desert because "THEY CAN'T STAY HERE, THE COUNTRY'S COMPLETELY FULL!" and the people who apparently think there's more than enough room to flood the country with unwanted, often severely disabled children whose parents are too poor or too unhealthy to raise them.

[DC Al Fine]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

[RFayette]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic. 

[Person Man]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic.  

And even saying that people have 46 chromosomes isn't always true or that a person always exists at the moment if and only if there is the Sacred Union of One Egg and One Sperm.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Roman?

Because it hails from a time somewhere between the Iron Age and the Medieval.

I don’t think Classical Romans really cared about abortion or at most, when it was disallowed, it was for “Romanian” reasons.

They largely went by Aristotle's beliefs that the embryo progressively gained souls and finally gained the "human" soul at the quickening (when the first kick is felt, which is normally 18-20 weeks), a belief that would continue to be held by medieval types (Aquinas and St Augustine etc); this meant abortions in that time were divided into pre- quickening procedures (sometimes a necessary evil) and post-quickening abortions (homicidal). Ironically it was the modern scientific understanding of embryology that really codified the modern anti-abortion movement (which is not to remotely imply that the pro life movement is scientifically literate as a whole - this bill being a good example with its talk of embryos being "living infants") - it swept aside all the old ideas of souls being magically injected and granting life in favour of the modern understanding that the embryo is always human.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic. 

It is a good counter to the absurd "potential" argument though - if abortion is to be opposed because the zygote represents the potential for life (see: "would you be here if your parents had aborted you?") you might as well bemoan the loss of every single gamete.

[afleitch]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic. 

It is a good counter to the absurd "potential" argument though - if abortion is to be opposed because the zygote represents the potential for life (see: "would you be here if your parents had aborted you?") you might as well bemoan the loss of every single gamete.

And given what we know about pregnancy, then in effect women's bodies would see 'death' occurring more often than life. Which is a perversion of what pregnancy/life actually is.

[LoneStarDem]

I don't see any backlash from GA Governor Brian Kemp (R) signing the anti-abortion legislation, which bans all abortions in the Peach State.

Liberals will get their trigger buttons pushed & nothing will happen.

[RFayette]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic. 

It is a good counter to the absurd "potential" argument though - if abortion is to be opposed because the zygote represents the potential for life (see: "would you be here if your parents had aborted you?") you might as well bemoan the loss of every single gamete.

I agree - those types of pro-life arguments are indeed extremely weak, as there would be no reason to oppose abortion if one believed the fetus only represented potential human life as opposed to actual human life, and the condoms joke would indeed be appropriate then.  I suppose the joke just seems a bit trite if no one is actually making that argument. 

[Gass3268]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

[T'Chenka]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Pence just went from "six" to "midnight".

[Person Man]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Pence just went from "six" to "midnight".

That has to be unconstitutional for multiple reasons. So basically, if you go out of state for an abortion, you can't come back. I could see someone trying to humiliate the GOP by offering asylum to someone like that. Or a blue state making some sort of resettlement program for people who can't come back.

[T'Chenka]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Pence just went from "six" to "midnight".

That has to be unconstitutional for multiple reasons. So basically, if you go out of state for an abortion, you can't come back. I could see someone trying to humiliate the GOP by offering asylum to someone like that. Or a blue state making some sort of resettlement program for people who can't come back.

Sounds great.

[lfromnj]

OOT but there is a county in SE Georgia that is the exile county for Georgians(No its not Florida)