State abortion laws megathread

[Person Man]

OOT but there is a county in SE Georgia that is the exile county for Georgians(No its not Florida)

Florida is still pretty OK with abortion, tho

[Gass3268]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Thank you Governor Kemp! This approach will do far more to reduce abortion than any standalone in-state law ever will.

Muh small government.

[Gass3268]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Thank you Governor Kemp! This approach will do far more to reduce abortion than any standalone in-state law ever will.

Muh small government.

Criminal justice is one of the core responsibilities of any government, no matter how small or large.

Including the invasion of privacy of what a women chooses to do when they leave the state? That's dystopian and unconstitutional.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Thank you Governor Kemp! This approach will do far more to reduce abortion than any standalone in-state law ever will.

Muh small government.

Criminal justice is one of the core responsibilities of any government, no matter how small or large.

Including the invasion of privacy of what a women chooses to do when they leave the state? That's dystopian and unconstitutional.

Yeah, this is effing insane. On top of which, it's almost certainly an interstate commerce violation and possibly a full faith and credit violation too.

[The Dowager Mod]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

[JGibson]

What a disgusting and repulsive law for Georgia to pass.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

[RFayette]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them. 

Which statutes?

[RFayette]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them.  

Which statutes?

I just meant that if laws are on the books then they give the local DA's the power to charge people with crimes with the potential penalties specified in the law.  Reading about this it sounds like this law has 10 years for conspiracy to leave state to get abortion, 2nd degree murder for self-induced abortion, and 1st for abortions in other circumstances, so DA's have the discretion to file these charges if they so choose.  Am I missing something?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

By my count we have three different threads about recently-enacted SCOTUS-bait state abortion laws on the first page of US General, one thread about a progressive state legislator antagonizing pro-lifers in his state, and one thread where OP is riffing on something I said in one of the other four threads. There are also threads further back about liberalizations of abortion law in Democratic-controlled states, far-right red meat being thrown at the wall to see if it sticks in Republican-controlled states, outré pro-life or pro-choice rhetoric that's not making it into law, and so on and so forth.

These threads deal with common themes, there are quite a number of them, and most of them don't take very long to get extremely bellicose, recriminatory, and fractious, sometimes among otherwise pretty irenic posters. I think it would be a good idea for us to try to keep this all in one megathread if possible like we do for Mueller and for Ilhan Omar, and I invite NYGurl to sticky this thread as she offered to do when I suggested this on the Atlas board.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them.  

Which statutes?

I just meant that if laws are on the books then they give the local DA's the power to charge people with crimes with the potential penalties specified in the law.  Reading about this it sounds like this law has 10 years for conspiracy to leave state to get abortion, 2nd degree murder for self-induced abortion, and 1st for abortions in other circumstances, so DA's have the discretion to file these charges if they so choose.  Am I missing something?

Here's the bill: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-SB-23

I don't see anything there about charging anyone with murder or conspiracy.  As far as I can tell this analysis relies on the idea that because it defines an unborn child as a person, then there would be certain penalties that go along with that. So it's making a lot of assumptions.

[RFayette]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them.  

Which statutes?

I just meant that if laws are on the books then they give the local DA's the power to charge people with crimes with the potential penalties specified in the law.  Reading about this it sounds like this law has 10 years for conspiracy to leave state to get abortion, 2nd degree murder for self-induced abortion, and 1st for abortions in other circumstances, so DA's have the discretion to file these charges if they so choose.  Am I missing something?

Here's the bill: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-SB-23

I don't see anything there about charging anyone with murder or conspiracy.  As far as I can tell this analysis relies on the idea that because it defines an unborn child as a person, then there would be certain penalties that go along with that. So it's making a lot of assumptions.

Are the Ohio and Georgia bills identical?  I was referring to GA.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them.  

Which statutes?

I just meant that if laws are on the books then they give the local DA's the power to charge people with crimes with the potential penalties specified in the law.  Reading about this it sounds like this law has 10 years for conspiracy to leave state to get abortion, 2nd degree murder for self-induced abortion, and 1st for abortions in other circumstances, so DA's have the discretion to file these charges if they so choose.  Am I missing something?

Here's the bill: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-SB-23

I don't see anything there about charging anyone with murder or conspiracy.  As far as I can tell this analysis relies on the idea that because it defines an unborn child as a person, then there would be certain penalties that go along with that. So it's making a lot of assumptions.

Are the Ohio and Georgia bills identical?  I was referring to GA.

Here it is:
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/HB/481
I got mixed up about the state but I was thinking of the GA bill.

[RFayette]

Here it is:
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/HB/481
I got mixed up about the state but I was thinking of the GA bill.

OK, I see.  So it seems the discussion about penalties was an extrapolation on the basis of an expansion of the definition of a person rather than something explicitly mentioned in the law.

[Clarence Boddicker]

What a disgusting and repulsive law for Georgia to pass.

[Person Man]

What a disgusting and repulsive law for Georgia to pass.

If this is allowed to go through, Georgia just isn’t the place to raise a family anymore. At this point, on my trips back to Florida I’m just not gonna stop. I might just buy gas in Wilmington and fill up cans, If I am actually moved to Stamford, CT. Unfortunately if I am in Chicago, if Roe goes, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, and of course Georgia will all probably have sharia law.

[Person Man]

I mean, I have already grown out a beard. Maybe I will start wearing robes, speak in a thick accent, and eat vegetarian on trips there and such.

[7,052,770]

Under this law a woman who miscarries could be liable for second-degree murder, she could be imprisoned for 30 years.

What?

There's a lot of wild speculation going on here about how this bill would be applied.

Well, the statutes would be there if the county DA's want to make use of them.  

Which statutes?

I just meant that if laws are on the books then they give the local DA's the power to charge people with crimes with the potential penalties specified in the law.  Reading about this it sounds like this law has 10 years for conspiracy to leave state to get abortion, 2nd degree murder for self-induced abortion, and 1st for abortions in other circumstances, so DA's have the discretion to file these charges if they so choose.  Am I missing something?

Here's the bill: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-SB-23

I don't see anything there about charging anyone with murder or conspiracy.  As far as I can tell this analysis relies on the idea that because it defines an unborn child as a person, then there would be certain penalties that go along with that. So it's making a lot of assumptions.

Don't be thick. The police would always investigate any death of a child, so if a fetus is legally considered to be a person will full rights, the police would have to investigate any time a fetus died as well.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The police investigate any death of a child?  When did this start?

If that's the case then it sounds to me the police are overstepping their bounds and causing grieving parents unnecessary extra pain.  They should only investigate if there's something suspicious.   Miscarriage especially is sadly all too common, and thus even more so it is no reason for a police investigation.

[QAnonKelly]

The police investigate any death of a child?  When did this start?

If that's the case then it sounds to me the police are overstepping their bounds and causing grieving parents unnecessary extra pain.  They should only investigate if there's something suspicious.   Miscarriage especially is sadly all too common, and thus even more so it is no reason for a police investigation.

It’s so they can put black women in jail so they won’t vote

[Person Man]

The police investigate any death of a child?  When did this start?

If that's the case then it sounds to me the police are overstepping their bounds and causing grieving parents unnecessary extra pain.  They should only investigate if there's something suspicious.   Miscarriage especially is sadly all too common, and thus even more so it is no reason for a police investigation.

It’s so they can put black women in jail so they won’t vote

From experience, I know that it is true. During law school and when I was married, my ex made friends with an underage couple who though they were not religious, maintained many of the values from their LDS homes and were very conservative. They had a child and the child suffered SIDS six months after it was born. Two days after the funeral (which was done by my priest somehow), the police came and brought them into custody at the local police office for two hours as the baby's death was investigated.

If people think Universal Health Care or even a half step towards UHC (where a third get serviced, a third still are left out, and a third still think they can do without...that is, the ACA) is an administrative nightmare and a huge strain on effort, morale, and treasure then they aren't ready for personhood or even personhood-lite (where abortion is still OK for rape, or legal long enough to be dealt with as a menstrual health issue).

[The Dowager Mod]

"Democracy" in action.
https://twitter.com/arlenparsa/status/1126525787451154432

[afleitch]

The US is headed down this hill very fast. It's absolutely terrifying.

[Person Man]

The US is headed down this hill very fast. It's absolutely terrifying.

We can either run away (I have been talking to a lawyer and have the money) or we can stand and fight, even it means years in prison, potential death, and a lifetime of persecution.