State abortion laws megathread

[Person Man]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/georgia-governor-signs-heartbeat-abortion-ban-joining-a-us-movement/ar-AAB1Rn9

[Person Man]

I couldn't find anything about exceptions in the usual cases (incest, rape, health of the mother), so can anyone speak to this?  If they would be included, then I really think calling this a "Roman abortion law" is kind of misleading.  Also, at what point in the pregnancy can a doctor usually detect a heartbeat?  Totally curious, as I have literally no idea.

The claim is six weeks. Some personhood people say 18 days but I think a lot of doctors can probably get away with it 12 weeks afterwards. There would still be that risk. I think there are laws that allow for the doctor to not check if there is a police report filed in conjunction or if it is done at the hospital.

Of course unless Roberts is ready to overturn Roe (upholding this law without explicitly overruling Roe would suffice), this law will never actually have the any effect. Unless all the shifts that are occurring in Georgia are illusory, there will be consequences with the minimal effect being the loss of new movie filmings, GA-6 going out of reach, and GA-7 switching hands. The senate race may go to runoff even in a year with a narrow R reelection.

[Person Man]

Why are y’all talking like this is some kind of harsh law? It’s not, it’s really too lax. It’s despicable because it doesn’t go anywhere near far enough. It even still permits the depraved, abominable act of heartlessly slaughtering unborn infants.
A reasonable, common sense abortion law would outlaw the peculiar institution altogether, from the moment the sperm hits the egg, and would include hefty prison sentences (say, 5 years per count) for abortion “doctors.”

The priest should order his deacons to inspect all periods and report all "irregularities" to the Chief Eunuch of Dioceses!

[Person Man]

the peculiar institution

lol

He has a lot of experience with peculiar institutions, you see

If I thought my semen were people and tried to rock them to bed and read them stories, I would too.

[Person Man]

the peculiar institution

lol

He has a lot of experience with peculiar institutions, you see

If I thought my semen were people and tried to rock them to bed and red them stories, I would too.

I know this is in jest, but why are such incredibly important semantics always lost on extreme pro-choicers and pro-lifers?  The absolutely massive ideological ocean that sits between positions like opposing birth control because it's killing potential fetuses and supporting late term abortions where the baby is practically born because "muh woman's body" is where the vast majority of normal people reside and where any sensible person would arrive.  Mocking people for debating where in the middle we should arrive by ascribing their beliefs to extremist caricatures seems to be in bad taste.

Which is reasonable but I don’t think I’m exaggerating the mocked viewpoint by that much. I mean, does he start considering himself a parent if the condom either gets stuck in there or disintegrates like an overloaded grocery bag when he brings someone home?

[Person Man]

Roman?

Clerical

[Person Man]

Roman?

Because it hails from a time somewhere between the Iron Age and the Medieval.

I don’t think Classical Romans really cared about abortion or at most, when it was disallowed, it was for “Romanian” reasons.

[Person Man]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

There’s a Monty Python bit about this.

Imagine a world that crowded!

If this law does become a thing I hope that this law is enforced and adjudicated by castrated men who are vegitarians and wear hooded robes.

[Person Man]

Honestly, at this point I'd take a Continental-style consensus around relatively-lax-but-not-incredibly-so abortion laws if it was what it took to stop the culture wars from escalating even further. I simply don't understand what the culture warrior (yes, On Both Sides) endgame is at this point, unless it's either actualization of the Jesusland map from 2004 or complete political and social subjugation of the perceived enemy.

You mean like what happened in the USSR in 1991, in the PRC in 1949, or in Spain in 1938?

[Person Man]

Should the act of sex itself be illegal because an innumerably large number of sperms inevitably die in the process; even if 1 or more (in the case of fraternal twins) of the sperms connects to an egg; the rest still die?

If the answer is yes, then almost every living animal on the planet is guilty of mass murder.
If the answer is no, then well its not much different from abortions and therefore, abortion should also be legal.

An unborn baby is genetically distinct from their parents, unlike sperm.

Yeah, I never understood those on the pro-choice camp making jokes about masturbation, condoms, etc. to draw a comparison with abortion.  I understand people generally aren't making a serious argument when they do this, but it's such a category error it makes the pro-choice side look ridiculous. One would think the difference between 23 and 46 chromosomes is pretty clear, to say nothing else.  The pro-choice side would do well to stick to arguments about bodily autonomy rather than make statements that are biologically...problematic.  

And even saying that people have 46 chromosomes isn't always true or that a person always exists at the moment if and only if there is the Sacred Union of One Egg and One Sperm.

[Person Man]

This is horrific and totally unconstitutional.  How are they even going to enforce this? Are doctors going to have to tell the police/state everyone that's pregnant? This is dystopian.

https://twitter.com/JessMKnoll/status/1125951331112325125

Pence just went from "six" to "midnight".

That has to be unconstitutional for multiple reasons. So basically, if you go out of state for an abortion, you can't come back. I could see someone trying to humiliate the GOP by offering asylum to someone like that. Or a blue state making some sort of resettlement program for people who can't come back.

[Person Man]

OOT but there is a county in SE Georgia that is the exile county for Georgians(No its not Florida)

Florida is still pretty OK with abortion, tho

[Person Man]

What a disgusting and repulsive law for Georgia to pass.

If this is allowed to go through, Georgia just isn’t the place to raise a family anymore. At this point, on my trips back to Florida I’m just not gonna stop. I might just buy gas in Wilmington and fill up cans, If I am actually moved to Stamford, CT. Unfortunately if I am in Chicago, if Roe goes, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, and of course Georgia will all probably have sharia law.

[Person Man]

I mean, I have already grown out a beard. Maybe I will start wearing robes, speak in a thick accent, and eat vegetarian on trips there and such.

[Person Man]

The police investigate any death of a child?  When did this start?

If that's the case then it sounds to me the police are overstepping their bounds and causing grieving parents unnecessary extra pain.  They should only investigate if there's something suspicious.   Miscarriage especially is sadly all too common, and thus even more so it is no reason for a police investigation.

It’s so they can put black women in jail so they won’t vote

From experience, I know that it is true. During law school and when I was married, my ex made friends with an underage couple who though they were not religious, maintained many of the values from their LDS homes and were very conservative. They had a child and the child suffered SIDS six months after it was born. Two days after the funeral (which was done by my priest somehow), the police came and brought them into custody at the local police office for two hours as the baby's death was investigated.

If people think Universal Health Care or even a half step towards UHC (where a third get serviced, a third still are left out, and a third still think they can do without...that is, the ACA) is an administrative nightmare and a huge strain on effort, morale, and treasure then they aren't ready for personhood or even personhood-lite (where abortion is still OK for rape, or legal long enough to be dealt with as a menstrual health issue).

[Person Man]

The US is headed down this hill very fast. It's absolutely terrifying.

We can either run away (I have been talking to a lawyer and have the money) or we can stand and fight, even it means years in prison, potential death, and a lifetime of persecution.

[Person Man]

The US is headed down this hill very fast. It's absolutely terrifying.

We can either run away (I have been talking to a lawyer and have the money) or we can stand and fight, even it means years in prison, potential death, and a lifetime of persecution.

The consequences of the confederacy having bizarre gender imbalances will be...interesting.
Yeah, I'm hoping that the national organizations are willing to raise money to help get women out of these redneck states to places were they can get their health care.

[Person Man]

Ya Hey Abortion Extremists,

If you support laws like Georgia's, please make a push so that legislators make it so that expecting fathers start paying child support from conception, alongside all the other things that come with that.

I’ve been saying that for a while. I imagine if it isn’t, you could get out of it entirely.

[Person Man]

Ya Hey Abortion Extremists,

If you support laws like Georgia's, please make a push so that legislators make it so that expecting fathers start paying child support from conception, alongside all the other things that come with that.

I also support this proposal, although the burden of pregnancy should be shared by all of society, starting but not limited to the parents themselves. Abortion restrictions are just one cornerstone in the project of restoring a compassionate, family-oriented society.

Prenatal care should absolutely be free and universally available and paid parental leave should be mandatory. Other policies may also address this issue, but these are the preferred starting points.

Maybe more of an orientation towards a plant based diet?

[Person Man]

I really don't understand why a bunch of old white conservative men think they're in any position to interfere with a personal medical procedure between a woman and her doctor...

Because that is the only way they can become spiritually fulfilled.

[Person Man]

I really don't understand why a bunch of old white conservative men think they're in any position to interfere with a personal medical procedure between a woman and her doctor...

By that logic I guess the federal ban on selling organs doesn't apply to women because something something old white men ...

And requiring delivery room nurses to wash their hands is patriarchy.

You're not very good at this.

Better than this asinine segregation argument that male legislators cant consider things that impact women, or is it only white male legislators who can't vote on abortion?

I think I am seeing what you were saying. Some veteran hawks don’t want dove civilians involved  in foreign policy because they won’t or aren’t allowed to fight. I get it. Why should people who don’t fight decide where someone fights or doesn’t fight? However, those doves still have to pay for it somehow. They have to deal with traveling to areas where our  bad foreign policy choices may subject them to prejudice. Their money is being spent in a way they will not benefit from. It’s not quite an equivalent between war and abortion or really anything else unless you subscribe to the logic that the “private” lives of everyone in the community are everyone in the community’s responsibility. My only experience with this was when I was clearly in the wrong. Mostly when I felt alone, anxious, or envious of sex lives of others.

[Person Man]

Here it is:
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/HB/481
I got mixed up about the state but I was thinking of the GA bill.

OK, I see.  So it seems the discussion about penalties was an extrapolation on the basis of an expansion of the definition of a person rather than something explicitly mentioned in the law.

I obviously don't know Georgia law, but just for comparison sake a crime need not specify complicity to the offense as being a crime within the statute itself. The general complicity statute basically makes it a crime to Aid, a bet, or encourage another to commit a crime. Heck, my someone being charged with the crime of complicity. If you are charged with assault, for example, you are considered to have legally also been charged with and put on notice for the charge of complicity to an assault.

Again, I don't know about Georgia law, but if it's anything remotely similar, then this absolutely can be applied to anyone assisting an abortion

What would it take to be considered an accomplice or solicitor is the question. For example, the Trump tower meeting where the Trump campaign asked for oppo research while knowing that the FSB had an oppo campaign. 

[Person Man]

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/03/florida-house-speaker-jose-oliva-calls-pregnant-women-host-bodies/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=share_bar&fbclid=IwAR2MSQuurb6_K9OH_pLz3_JJLJXpuIlb9Qm_x4HnYpB4wCT2x_T3zZsCQ-o#6pzXyCcDJHZlq1pe.01

[Person Man]

Governor Bill Lee has signed the Human Life Protection Act, which will make abortion illegal in Tennessee 30 days after the complete or partial overturning of Roe v. Wade.

How would a “partial” overturn work?

[Person Man]

Governor Bill Lee has signed the Human Life Protection Act, which will make abortion illegal in Tennessee 30 days after the complete or partial overturning of Roe v. Wade.

How would a “partial” overturn work?

I assume that it means allowing something like a heartbeat bill without explicitly overturning Roe.

It's also worth saying that this law does not allow the prosecution of post-abortive women only the "doctors".

What if there is no doctor?