LC 2.13 Balanced Budget Repeal Ammendment (Sent to referendum)

[Former President tack50]

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows

16. No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year, except by a 2/3 vote of said legislative power.

Sponsor: Tack50

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last for no less than 72 hours

[S019]

Well, this would make tax reform. easier

But I'm not sure if we should blow up the deficit

Also this is likely to get priorities, such as universal health care passes, rather than tax reform

This is an interesting idea, though

[Adam Griffin]

I'm generally of the persuasion that there isn't much reason to purposefully confine a legislative body with respect to matters of budgetary balancing. While I am a big fan of bringing budgets under control and not spending more than we need or have, I feel this amendment as-is would effectively be the same as a balanced budget amendment without the two-thirds requirement; I'm not sure there'll ever be a situation in which a supermajority of Councilors will agree to run a deficit if they know they can simply obstruct it.

I'm open to persuasion, however.

[Former President tack50]

I'm generally of the persuasion that there isn't much reason to purposefully confine a legislative body with respect to matters of budgetary balancing. While I am a big fan of bringing budgets under control and not spending more than we need or have, I feel this amendment as-is would effectively be the same as a balanced budget amendment without the two-thirds requirement; I'm not sure there'll ever be a situation in which a supermajority of Councilors will agree to run a deficit if they know they can simply obstruct it.

I'm open to persuasion, however.

Well, I'd argue that since budgets are hard to make, it would be hard for a minority of legislators to throw off a budget because of the deficit. However, I think overall you are right and while deficits are bad, we shouldn't restrict the region's ability to run deficits. We should strive for a balanced budget, but that's not something we will be able to always do.

I present the following ammendment:

Ammendment L 2:19 by tack50

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows is hereby repealed in its entirety. The remainder of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be renumbered accordingly

Sponsor feedback: Origination
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

Ok, I just noticed a problem with this. The Lincoln Constitution requires 4/5 majority to pass constitutional ammendments!

In other words, almost unanimous consent, with 8 councillors voting in favour. So I wonder if this is good enough to get near unanimous consent.

[Sirius_]

I've also generally been of the opinion that this requirement is unhelpful and limiting, particularly if there's a crisis that requires large amounts of funding but can't been implemented without cuts to other departments or huge tax hikes, or if we went just a bit under our revenues for one year and end up in shutdown because of it. In fact, I attempted to repeal this provision in the 10th session. So, there's one opposition supporter for you.

[lfromnj]

Id support in this condition. 2/3 for the first year and 3/4 for every year after. Will make an amendment later unless someone else wants to.

[S019]

I'll back this, as well

[Former President tack50]

Id support in this condition. 2/3 for the first year and 3/4 for every year after. Will make an amendment later unless someone else wants to.

Is that amendment coming?

I am not terribly fond of it, but it's a decent compromise idea I guess.

[lfromnj]

deleted by accident

[Former President tack50]

While I am personally against the amendment, we do need to get a 4/5 majority, so I will declare it friendly with the aim of getting the maximum consensus possible.

Amendment L 2:31 by lfromnj to LC 2.13 Balanced Budget Repeal Ammendment

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows

16. No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year, except by a 2/3 vote for the first year and a 3/4 vote for any year in any year that is at most 4 years away from the most recent balanced budget override.

Sponsor feedback: Friendly
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

Does someone else have anything to add? Otherwise I'll push for a final vote soon so we can have the referendum on this next weekend alongside the better governance amendment (assuming it passes)

[Pyro]

I am on-board with the premise of the original bill and concur with Councilor Griff's earlier statement.

However, the language in the latest amendment is not clear. Can those in the support of Councilor Lfromnj's addition please clarify exactly what is being said there?

[Former President tack50]

I am on-board with the premise of the original bill and concur with Councilor Griff's earlier statement.

However, the language in the latest amendment is not clear. Can those in the support of Councilor Lfromnj's addition please clarify exactly what is being said there?

From what I understand, it would basically require 3 consecutive balanced budgets in a row before the requirement goes from 2/3 to a majority again.

In practice, I imagine most budgets would need a 2/3 or 3/4 majority anyways from the moment we get an unbalanced one, I seriously doubt we are getting 4 balanced budgets in a row. Plus 4 years in Atlasia is historically a long time. 4 years ago it was pre-reset for example, I believe Atlasia gets "big gamechaning events" every 4-5 years.

[Former President tack50]

After proofreading lfromnj's amendment, I consider it to be quite hard to understand. I'll propose this amendment to simply return to the original wording (so we've gone full circle). 2/3 majority required for unbalanced budgets and that's it.

Amendment L 2:39 by tack50 to LC 2.13 Balanced Budget Repeal Ammendment

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows

16. No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year, except by a 2/3 vote of said legislative power for the first year and a 3/4 vote for any year in any year that is at most 4 years away from the most recent balanced budget override. 

Sponsor feedback: Origination
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

I motion for a final vote, 24 hours to object

[lfromnj]

No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year except if there is an override vote. An override vote requires a majority of 3/4 of the Lincoln Council unless there has been at least a 4 year gap from the most recent override in which case a 2/3 vote is sufficient

Does this work?

[Former President tack50]

No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year except if there is an override vote. An override vote requires a majority of 3/4 of the Lincoln Council unless there has been at least a 4 year gap from the most recent override

Does this work?

Yeah, that would work, though I think 3/4 is a bit too high and prefer 2/3

Dropping the final vote call for now by the way

[lfromnj]

No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year except if there is an override vote. An override vote requires a majority of 3/4 of the Lincoln Council unless there has been at least a 4 year gap from the most recent override

Does this work?

My bad added something for a 2/3 scenario.

Yeah, that would work, though I think 3/4 is a bit too high and prefer 2/3

Dropping the final vote call for now by the way

[Former President tack50]

Still against it, but if it's what it takes to pass this amendment I guess I'll take it. Only changed "Lincoln Council" to "legislative power", for consistency and just in case we switch back to the Lincoln Assembly again (or something different) for some reason.

Amendment L 2:43 by tack50 to LC 2.13 Balanced Budget Repeal Ammendment

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows

16. No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year, except if there is an override vote. An override vote requires a majority of 3/4 of the legislative power unless there has been at least a 4 year gap from the most recent override in which case a 2/3 vote is sufficient

Sponsor feedback: Origination
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

Anyways, I'll restart the call for a final vote; 24 hours to object

Actually, there's debate ongoing, so I'll drop it

[Former President tack50]

Let's get this finally going.

I motion for a final vote, 24 hours to object

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a FINAL vote is now open on the following legislation

Balanced budget Repeal Ammendment

An ammendment to repeal the need for budgets to be balanced to streamline the budget process

1. Section 16 of the Declaration of Rights of the Lincoln Constitution shall be ammended as follows

16. No budget or appropriation bill shall be passed by the legislative power of this Region for which the totaled expenditures exceed the sum of all revenue collected in the previous year, except if there is an override vote. An override vote requires a majority of 3/4 of the legislative power unless there has been at least a 4 year gap from the most recent override in which case a 2/3 vote is sufficient

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48 hours or until all Councillors have voted
As per the Lincoln Constitution, 4/5 of all sitting Councillors are required for this constitutional amendment to pass

[lfromnj]

Aye

[Former President tack50]

Aye