LC 2.2 Transportation Improvement Bill (Rejected)

[Former President tack50]

Transportation Improvement Bill

Sponsor: Councilor Suburban NJ Conservative (F-NJ)

This bill calls for building a tolled closed system mega highway with a toll of $0.75 per mile, from Philadelphia to Buffalo

It also calls to add tolls to the following interstate highways at the price of $0.80 per mile: I-80 (PA), I-95 (RI), I-70 (IN)

It also calls to add express toll lanes at the price of $1.25 per mile on the following highways in the New York City area (I-495, I-278, I-95 (until Exit 14), I-695, I-295) and in the Philadelphia area (I-276, I-95, I-76 (until Schuykill Haven)

This bill also calls for renovating the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and mandating a toll hike of 50% on all existing Lincoln tolls to pay for it

The money generated from this toll revenue, will be used to make repairs to roads in poor conditions and also to make improvements to major airports, such as Chicago O’Hare, New York City’s JFK, and Boston Logan.

Sponsor: Suburban New Jersey Conservative

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last for no less than 72 hours

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Just going to point out that at 75 cents per mile, and the distance from Philly to Buffalo being around 380 miles, if implemented the toll for driving from Philly to Buffalo would be $285 DOLLARS.
Would you pay $285 DOLLARS in tolls just to drive one-way from Philly to Buffalo?

[S019]

Mr. Speaker I would like to propose an amendment

Transportation Improvement Bill

Sponsor: Councilor Suburban NJ Conservative (F-NJ)

This bill calls for building a tolled closed system mega highway with a toll of $0.75 per mile, from Philadelphia to Buffalo

It also calls to add tolls to the following interstate highways at the price of $0.80 per mile: I-80 (PA), I-95 (RI), I-70 (IN)

It also calls to add express toll lanes at the price of $1.25 per mile on the following highways in the New York City area (I-495, I-278, I-95 (until from Exit 14 in NJ (Newark Airport), north to exit 6A in NY (I-678 (Bronx-Whitestone Bridge)), I-695 I-678, I-295) and in the Philadelphia area (I-276, I-95 from Exit 37 (PA-132 (Bensalem)) south to Exit 4 (US-322 (Chester)), I-76 (from the PA state line heading west until Schuykill Haven Exit 320 (PA-29 (Malvern)).


This bill also calls for renovating the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and mandating a toll hike of 50% on all existing Lincoln tolls to pay for it

The money generated from this toll revenue, will be used to make repairs to roads in poor conditions and also to make improvements to major airports, such as Chicago O’Hare, New York City’s JFK, and Boston Logan.

All tolls are to be collected in both directions. The tolls are for the entirety of the road, unless otherwise specified

Sponsor: Suburban New Jersey Conservative

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last for no less than 72 hours

[Adam Griffin]

I'm sorry, but middle class people don't earn $90k per year in my neighborhood. Gonna be a hard pass for me.

[S019]

I'm sorry, but middle class people don't earn $90k per year in my neighborhood. Gonna be a hard pass for me.

This bill barely affects Michigan that much (MI has one toll road (Mackinac Bridge, and it raises that toll from 4.00 to 8.00, also the Mackinac Bridge is in far northern Michigan, I doubt it will affect Michigan that much), should probably specify that this does not impact international crossings, though I think, given that we are a region, it is assumed that this does not deal with tolls shared with Canada

It mostly affects NJ, NY, and PA

[Former President tack50]

Ammendment L 2:18 by S019

Transportation Improvement Bill

This bill calls for building a tolled closed system mega highway with a toll of $0.75 per mile, from Philadelphia to Buffalo

It also calls to add tolls to the following interstate highways at the price of $0.80 per mile: I-80 (PA), I-95 (RI), I-70 (IN)

It also calls to add express toll lanes at the price of $1.25 per mile on the following highways in the New York City area (I-495, I-278, I-95 (until from Exit 14 in NJ (Newark Airport), north to exit 6A in NY (I-678 (Bronx-Whitestone Bridge)), I-695 I-678, I-295) and in the Philadelphia area (I-276, I-95 from Exit 37 (PA-132 (Bensalem)) south to Exit 4 (US-322 (Chester)), I-76 (from the PA state line heading west until Schuykill Haven Exit 320 (PA-29 (Malvern)).


This bill also calls for renovating the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and mandating a toll hike of 50% on all existing Lincoln tolls to pay for it

The money generated from this toll revenue, will be used to make repairs to roads in poor conditions and also to make improvements to major airports, such as Chicago O’Hare, New York City’s JFK, and Boston Logan.

All tolls are to be collected in both directions. The tolls are for the entirety of the road, unless otherwise specified

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

Also, I agree with Griff and ASV. This would be prohibitively expensive for the average Lincolnite. I am not 100% against toll roads, but they are a necessary evil that should be limited, not expanded.

I would prefer raising the gas tax or introducing some sort of road conservation tax if we want to make drivers pay for roads.

[Mr. Reactionary]

This bill also calls for renovating the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and mandating a toll hike of 50% on all existing Lincoln tolls to pay for it

The money generated from this toll revenue, will be used to make repairs to roads in poor conditions and also to make improvements to major airports, such as Chicago O’Hare, New York City’s JFK, and Boston Logan.

Is there a reason tolls in Pennsylvania. Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin are being increased to pay for a bridge in new york and airports in Chigago, New York, and Boston? Hardly seems fair.

[S019]

This bill also calls for renovating the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and mandating a toll hike of 50% on all existing Lincoln tolls to pay for it

The money generated from this toll revenue, will be used to make repairs to roads in poor conditions and also to make improvements to major airports, such as Chicago O’Hare, New York City’s JFK, and Boston Logan.

Is there a reason tolls in Pennsylvania. Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin are being increased to pay for a bridge in new york and airports in Chigago, New York, and Boston? Hardly seems fair.

It also pays for other major airports, it said such as, so other major cities are included

[lfromnj]

I am not as against toll roads as a way of paying for roads in general(compared to a gas tax which can affect those who wish to use private roads) but this cost is absurd.

[Pyro]

I'm opposed to this. Tolling should be abolished, not expanded.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I'm opposed to this. Tolling should be abolished, not expanded.

I am in a position to concur with the Right Honourable, The Chancellor. Road tolling is by and large an ineffective counterproductive measure that achieves little in the long run. The gas tax is a far more equal and fair tax, and is a far more effective measure for funding infrastructure maintenance, repair and overhaul.

[Sirius_]

I appreciate Mr. SNJC's concern for our transportation infrastructure, but I have to agree that this is not the best way to go about it, due to the extremely high pricing (my local toll road, for example, charges only about $0.25 per mile).

I am not as against toll roads as a way of paying for roads in general(compared to a gas tax which can affect those who wish to use private roads) but this cost is absurd.

Also agree with this.

[Former President tack50]

Ok, decided to do a bit of analysis.

First of all, after looking a bit in Google Maps, I realized there is already a highway between Philadelphia and Buffalo for the entire length of the route.

Said route involves taking I-476 north up to Scranton, I-81 further north up to Syracuse and finally I-90 west to Buffalo. Said route is 400 miles long. Of course, it's not a straight line, so a road (or more likely, widening an existing road) could be built, but I have to wonder if there is enough demand for such a construction project. Anyone from the are who could tell us? I certainly can't see the need for this new construction.

I also decided to take a look at toll prices here just to see their prices (and because they are more accessible to me). Most tolls are on the ball park of 0.20$ per mile.

Even the most expensive one I was able to find was only around 0.26 $ per mile. Even if you take the heavy truck prices (this bill doesn't discriminate between trucks and cars) you still only get to 40 $ cents per mile.

Ninja also mentioned his local toll road being 0.25$ per mile. These new tolls are more than 3 times that. While I don't fully disagree with tolls depending on circumstances, the tolls proposed in this bill are way too high.

[Sirius_]

I would further like to add that I would prefer an expansion to the LincolnRail network to more highways anyway, which I plan on proposing this term.

[S019]

What proposals would people like, in order for this bill to pass, I am open to modifications, as long as it does not wreck the bill

[Adam Griffin]

Mister Speaker, I offer the following amendment:

Transportation Improvement Bill

Section 1 (Title & Definitions)
1. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "road" refers to any avenue of transit.
2. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "toll" refers to any fee collected in exchange for access to a public or private avenue of transit.

Section 2 (Regulation of Toll Roads)
1. As of July 1, 2019, the practice of collecting tolls on any roads that are built and/or maintained with public funding shall be abolished.
2. As of July 1, 2019, any roads built and maintained exclusively with private funding may charge tolls, not to exceed $0.10 per mile.
3. As of July 1, 2019, all profits collected from tolls shall be taxed at a rate of 50%.

[Former President tack50]

I assume this amendment replaces this bill in its entirety.

Amendment L 2:25 by Adam Griffin

Transportation Improvement Bill

Section 1 (Title & Definitions)
1. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "road" refers to any avenue of transit.
2. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "toll" refers to any fee collected in exchange for access to a public or private avenue of transit.

Section 2 (Regulation of Toll Roads)
1. As of July 1, 2019, the practice of collecting tolls on any roads that are built and/or maintained with public funding shall be abolished.
2. As of July 1, 2019, any roads built and maintained exclusively with private funding may charge tolls, not to exceed $0.10 per mile.
3. As of July 1, 2019, all profits collected from tolls shall be taxed at a rate of 50%.

[/quote]

Sponsor feedback: Hostile
Status: 24h for debate

[Former President tack50]

I have to say that I do not support this amendment either. While SNJC's original bill is very bad, this amendment goes too far in the opposite direction. Tolls have a purpose in transportation and while they should be avoided, they are not the end of the world and are a decent idea depending on the circumstances, in order to raise revenue for road repairs, make construction cheaper (many times road construction is paid by giving a toll concession to the construction company) and even as a way to handle traffic.

[S019]

Mister Speaker, I offer the following amendment:

Transportation Improvement Bill

Section 1 (Title & Definitions)
1. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "road" refers to any avenue of transit.
2. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "toll" refers to any fee collected in exchange for access to a public or private avenue of transit.

Section 2 (Regulation of Toll Roads)
1. As of July 1, 2019, the practice of collecting tolls on any roads that are built and/or maintained with public funding shall be abolished.
2. As of July 1, 2019, any roads built and maintained exclusively with private funding may charge tolls, not to exceed $0.10 per mile.
3. As of July 1, 2019, all profits collected from tolls shall be taxed at a rate of 50%.

Hostile

This basically wrecks the bill

[Sirius_]

The new version of the bill is just as terrible as the last, it is very fiscally irresponsible and would increase both our deficit and the federal deficit, and taxes would inevitably be raised negating any personal savings.

[Adam Griffin]

Toll roads serve practically no effective purpose, their creation leads to much higher costs for consumers than the increase in taxes would require per capita, and a combination of $0.10 per mile + increased taxes for justified road work in my amendment is far less than pinging people the better part of a dollar per mile across a variety of arterial roadways.

Likewise, we do not have the capacity for feasibility studies that are actually worthwhile; we're talking about building new highways and converting major highways into toll roads that cost 2-3x per mile what gas + car maintenance costs. It's ridiculous, and the original bill as-is is all fluff and no substance.

If there is a need for new highways and roads, the public sector is more than capable of making those decisions based on the good of the people. If not - but there is a desire for such - then a private company can choose to build a road and maintain it on their own to supply such a service. Why so many are in favor of handouts to corporations and taxpayer burdens that line the pockets of a few is beyond me. Taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing private businesses when there is a clear, defined and well-established public sector alternative. All it ends up creating is waste and price-gouging.

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a vote is now open on the following amendment

Amendment L 2:25 by Adam Griffin

Transportation Improvement Bill

Section 1 (Title & Definitions)
1. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "road" refers to any avenue of transit.
2. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "toll" refers to any fee collected in exchange for access to a public or private avenue of transit.

Section 2 (Regulation of Toll Roads)
1. As of July 1, 2019, the practice of collecting tolls on any roads that are built and/or maintained with public funding shall be abolished.
2. As of July 1, 2019, any roads built and maintained exclusively with private funding may charge tolls, not to exceed $0.10 per mile.
3. As of July 1, 2019, all profits collected from tolls shall be taxed at a rate of 50%.

[/quote]

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 24h or until all councillors have voted
This amendment shall replace the bill in its entirety

[Former President tack50]

Nay

[Pyro]

Aye