Hot topics in the European election (user search)
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  Hot topics in the European election (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hot topics in the European election  (Read 1022 times)
Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,173
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« on: May 15, 2019, 11:24:04 PM »

In Austria, the Left wants to show the right-wing government the middle finger in a protest election (which, according to polls, won’t happen).

Issues debated are:

Climate change and the transformation from fossil fuel to green energy and transportation. Higher taxes on fossil fuels and the phasing out of fossil fuel cars starting in 2025 by banning new registrations first.

Food safety, the ban of certain herbicides to regain the degrading biodiversity, immigration, integration and school bullying.
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,173
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 12:59:11 PM »
« Edited: May 16, 2019, 01:03:17 PM by Tender Branson »

In Austria, the Left wants to show the right-wing government the middle finger in a protest election (which, according to polls, won’t happen).

Issues debated are:

Climate change and the transformation from fossil fuel to green energy and transportation. Higher taxes on fossil fuels and the phasing out of fossil fuel cars starting in 2025 by banning new registrations first.

Food safety, the ban of certain herbicides to regain the degrading biodiversity, immigration, integration and school bullying.

Who wants to ban fossil fuel cars from 2025?

I'm sure it's not the Center-Right, and I've genuinely not heard of such a plan.

Austria has one of the highest clean energy ratios in Europe, so yeah, it's not like there is any need to ban cars...

The Greens. And while all other parties (even the FPÖ) are not calling for an outright ban on new registrations, they all want to increase incentives to buy more e-cars in the next years, by offering more tax credits for buyers (such as no NOVA-tax) and more e-grid stations to charge the vehicles.

The Greens plan is to phase out the gas/diesel cars, starting in 2025 - by banning new registrations for those vehicles. Only e- or hydrogen cars would be allowed to be sold or registered from that point on. Eventually, this would lead to an all-green car fleet in Austria (excl. transit and tourism) over the next decades, as more and more cars are replaced by green cars.

I think it's a good idea, now that e-cars are getting better and better when it comes to battery power and range. Obviously, the price would have to drop further, so that anyone can buy an e-car with a range of 500-600km for 20.000€ or something.
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,173
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 01:15:24 PM »

In Austria, the Left wants to show the right-wing government the middle finger in a protest election (which, according to polls, won’t happen).

Issues debated are:

Climate change and the transformation from fossil fuel to green energy and transportation. Higher taxes on fossil fuels and the phasing out of fossil fuel cars starting in 2025 by banning new registrations first.

Food safety, the ban of certain herbicides to regain the degrading biodiversity, immigration, integration and school bullying.

Who wants to ban fossil fuel cars from 2025?

I'm sure it's not the Center-Right, and I've genuinely not heard of such a plan.

Austria has one of the highest clean energy ratios in Europe, so yeah, it's not like there is any need to ban cars...

The Greens. And while all other parties (even the FPÖ) are not calling for an outright ban on new registrations, they all want to increase incentives to buy more e-cars in the next years, by offering more tax credits for buyers (such as no NOVA-tax) and more e-grid stations to charge the vehicles.

The Greens plan is to phase out the gas/diesel cars, starting in 2025 - by banning new registrations for those vehicles. Only e- or hydrogen cars would be allowed to be sold or registered from that point on. Eventually, this would lead to an all-green car fleet in Austria (excl. transit and tourism) over the next decades, as more and more cars are replaced by green cars.

I think it's a good idea, now that e-cars are getting better and better when it comes to battery power and range. Obviously, the price would have to drop further, so that anyone can buy an e-car with a range of 500-600km for 20.000€ or something.

Yeah, but prices are not going to drop that low in just 6 years...

Plus, electric cars need to do 100,000 km (or was it miles?) before they are carbon neutral (due to the very complicated process of manufacturing), and it still depends on how the actual electricity is produced.

In reality, this ban is not going anywhere, as I can't see any serious parties supporting it, and I doubt Austrians would give up their cars so easily.

You are right about the first part, wrong about the 2nd part:

* I agree that e-cars (or trucks, or tractors) are not the end of the climate solution right now because the battery production involves a lot of rare earth materials like Lithium that are mined in poor places such as Bolivia or the Congo by poor people. And their recycling is troublesome. Also, the prices are too high for the middle-class right now, but considering how the crap is mined by poor people, it's actually OK. Therefore, hydrogen cars would be the better solution, probably. But I'm no expert.

* On the second point, you are wrong: the ban at some point is needed and Austrian voters (who are quite green and nature-minded) are well aware of that. Sales of e-bikes and e-mountainbikes have skyrocketed in recent years for example. I own one. Most in my family own one. FPÖ-voters own them. Therefore a transition to e-cars will only be a matter of time, if the price is right and the charging grid is perfected so that you can charge your car every 500 meters in half an hour while shopping.
Logged
Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,173
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 01:28:30 PM »

In Austria, the Left wants to show the right-wing government the middle finger in a protest election (which, according to polls, won’t happen).

Issues debated are:

Climate change and the transformation from fossil fuel to green energy and transportation. Higher taxes on fossil fuels and the phasing out of fossil fuel cars starting in 2025 by banning new registrations first.

Food safety, the ban of certain herbicides to regain the degrading biodiversity, immigration, integration and school bullying.

Who wants to ban fossil fuel cars from 2025?

I'm sure it's not the Center-Right, and I've genuinely not heard of such a plan.

Austria has one of the highest clean energy ratios in Europe, so yeah, it's not like there is any need to ban cars...

The Greens. And while all other parties (even the FPÖ) are not calling for an outright ban on new registrations, they all want to increase incentives to buy more e-cars in the next years, by offering more tax credits for buyers (such as no NOVA-tax) and more e-grid stations to charge the vehicles.

The Greens plan is to phase out the gas/diesel cars, starting in 2025 - by banning new registrations for those vehicles. Only e- or hydrogen cars would be allowed to be sold or registered from that point on. Eventually, this would lead to an all-green car fleet in Austria (excl. transit and tourism) over the next decades, as more and more cars are replaced by green cars.

I think it's a good idea, now that e-cars are getting better and better when it comes to battery power and range. Obviously, the price would have to drop further, so that anyone can buy an e-car with a range of 500-600km for 20.000€ or something.

Yeah, but prices are not going to drop that low in just 6 years...

Plus, electric cars need to do 100,000 km (or was it miles?) before they are carbon neutral (due to the very complicated process of manufacturing), and it still depends on how the actual electricity is produced.

In reality, this ban is not going anywhere, as I can't see any serious parties supporting it, and I doubt Austrians would give up their cars so easily.

You are right about the first part, wrong about the 2nd part:

* I agree that e-cars (or trucks, or tractors) are not the end of the climate solution right now because the battery production involves a lot of rare earth materials like Lithium that are mined in poor places such as Bolivia or the Congo by poor people. And their recycling is troublesome. Also, the prices are too high for the middle-class right now, but considering how the crap is mined by poor people, it's actually OK. Therefore, hydrogen cars would be the better solution, probably. But I'm no expert.

* On the second point, you are wrong: the ban at some point is needed and Austrian voters (who are quite green and nature-minded) are well aware of that. Sales of e-bikes and e-mountainbikes have skyrocketed in recent years for example. I own one. Most in my family own one. FPÖ-voters own them. Therefore a transition to e-cars will only be a matter of time, if the price is right and the charging grid is perfected so that you can charge your car every 500 meters in half an hour while shopping.

In addition to this, I think that every current method of transportation (other than walking by foot) is dangerous to nature and destroying it.

Why ?

Because even if you use a hydrogen car the method of production involves the mining of rare-earth materials elsewhere, which leads to the total destruction of the biosphere somewhere else.

Also, I have read studies recently about microplastic in tires of cars. People often focus on emmissions only, which is driving climate change and emissions. But tires are no smaller problem: Small rubber particles end up on roads and fields nearby on a huge amount every day. These small rubber particles are eaten by cows nearby, then ending up in the human food chain. Causing cancer and all sorts of allergies. Bees are dying off, so are insects. If the insects are dying off, the birds die off and so on ...

I think the only solution to solve this problem is A) invest in research to find a way to beam people and objects from one place to another (Star Trek style) and B) kill off capitalism and return to basic farming once A is established.
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,173
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -6.06, S: -4.84

« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 01:41:40 PM »



You are right about the first part, wrong about the 2nd part:

* I agree that e-cars (or trucks, or tractors) are not the end of the climate solution right now because the battery production involves a lot of rare earth materials like Lithium that are mined in poor places such as Bolivia or the Congo by poor people. And their recycling is troublesome. Also, the prices are too high for the middle-class right now, but considering how the crap is mined by poor people, it's actually OK. Therefore, hydrogen cars would be the better solution, probably. But I'm no expert.

* On the second point, you are wrong: the ban at some point is needed and Austrian voters (who are quite green and nature-minded) are well aware of that. Sales of e-bikes and e-mountainbikes have skyrocketed in recent years for example. I own one. Most in my family own one. FPÖ-voters own them. Therefore a transition to e-cars will only be a matter of time, if the price is right and the charging grid is perfected so that you can charge your car every 500 meters in half an hour while shopping.


In addition to this, I think that every current method of transportation (other than walking by foot) is dangerous to nature and destroying it.

Why ?

Because even if you use a hydrogen car the method of production involves the mining of rare-earth materials elsewhere, which leads to the total destruction of the biosphere somewhere else.

Also, I have read studies recently about microplastic in tires of cars. People often focus on emmissions only, which is driving climate change and emissions. But tires are no smaller problem: Small rubber particles end up on roads and fields nearby on a huge amount every day. These small rubber particles are eaten by cows nearby, then ending up in the human food chain. Causing cancer and all sorts of allergies. Bees are dying off, so are insects. If the insects are dying off, the birds die off and so on ...

I think the only solution to solve this problem is A) invest in research to find a way to beam people and objects from one place to another (Star Trek style) and B) kill off capitalism and return to basic farming once A is established.

Oh no, I agree that a shift is necessary, I just believe 2025 is too soon.

I would think a better idea would be to allow petrol and diesel until 2035, use the higher taxes towards infrastructure and green energy (whether that's charging stations or making hydrogen cheaper and more available) and then make the switch around 2035.

Austria is a very "rural country", and getting quick charging stations or hydrogen fuel stations to all the villages is not that cheap or easy, and plus, Austria would need to make 100+% of its electricity through renewable sources, as the switch (if to electric vehicles) would cause a spike in demand for electricity.

As for the last part, things are not so desperate...

If you always say "[year] is too soon." then things will never get done and the Green mobility transformation will never really start.

Oh, things are desperate, as I have outlined with the disintegrating biodiversity all over the globe and the reckless destruction of the biosphere by the metastasizing human race.

95% of people on the planet do not even realize that they are Earth's malign cancer cells and continue to destroy the planet by creating more cancer cells (kids).

Only if we go all-Green now, kill off capitalism and return to basic farming, things can be turned around ...
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