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  Why are American Jews so Democratic if Republicans are so pro-Israel?
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Author Topic: Why are American Jews so Democratic if Republicans are so pro-Israel?  (Read 811 times)
PR
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« on: May 15, 2019, 11:00:01 am »

Huh
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 05:35:25 pm »

1. The American government doesn't effect Israel much.

2. The GOP exagerrates the difference between themselves and the Democrats on Israel.
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 05:37:00 pm »

jews care about other issues?
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 07:22:15 pm »

Because very few American Jews vote solely based on Israel policy, and most Democrats are pro-Israel as well.
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 07:24:45 pm »

Because very few American Jews vote solely based on Israel policy, and most Democrats are pro-Israel as well.
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 08:52:40 pm »

Because they are American not Israeli.
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Councilor Zaybay
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 09:25:14 pm »
« Edited: May 15, 2019, 11:00:53 pm by Councilor Zaybay »

Well, there are multiple reasons.

1. Geography- Where you live has a lot to do with how you vote. Most Rurals vote Republican, and most Cities vote D. A core constituency of Cities happens to be Jews. From Miami to New York, Newark to the Bay Area, most Jews live in highly urban areas, with very few living in Rural or even Suburban areas.
Img


2. History- The Democratic Party has a long history with Jews. For the past 100 years, from 1916-2016, Jews have voted for the Democrats in every election except in 1920(This was due in large part to the Socialist candidate Debs). Even during the sweeps of 1972, and 1984, the Jewish vote held firm for the Democrats. This long history has both bolstered D strength with the community, and also kept many Conservative Jews in the D fold(see: Selma).
Img

(Graph courtesy of Comrade Funk)

3. Israel- As many others have noted on this thread, Israel is not an all-consuming issue for Jews. In fact, in a recent survey, Jews were actually one of the most sympathetic groups towards the Palestinian cause. The idea that Jews are single-issue voters on Israel has as much proof as the idea that Hispanics only vote based on Immigration issues, or Muslims only vote for candidates that uphold the Saudi alliance.


There are more reasons as well, such as the fact that many Jews come from more Working Class backgrounds, or that the Labor movement in the US was heavily supported by Jews fighting for better conditions, but these 3 are kinda the main ones.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 09:29:43 pm »

A history of being discrimated against tends to make people vote against candidates who preach religion, militarism, war, and patriotism.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 09:32:33 pm »

How did literally everyone in this thread miss that OP was trolling?
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Deeply Disturbing
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 09:34:08 pm »

How did literally everyone in this thread miss that OP was trolling?

Because, sadly, many posters on this forum would unironically ask something like this.
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RoboWop
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 10:50:43 pm »

Zaybay, where is that data from? If Reagan really did worse with Jewish voters in 1984 than 1980, it does indicate that foreign policy re: Israel is a huge vote-mover. But I'm skeptical.
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Councilor Zaybay
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 11:02:18 pm »

Zaybay, where is that data from? If Reagan really did worse with Jewish voters in 1984 than 1980, it does indicate that foreign policy re: Israel is a huge vote-mover. But I'm skeptical.
Yeah, Comerade Funk made it by going back into the election files. Its a pretty great graph.

Anyway, while you could make such a connection, there really isnt any correlation elsewhere. Its much more of a coincidence than anything else(it seems a lot of Jewish voters in 1980 went to Anderson who would normally vote Democratic, so just like with Debs and Wallace, Im not sure if using such numbers when a 3rd party did rather well is analytically wise).
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 11:04:28 pm »

In America, Jews disproportionately tend to...

(1) Have college degrees
(2) Live in urban areas

Those things, particularly when taken together, make it extremely unlikely that someone is going to vote Republican.

If Republicans really want to win a larger share of the Jewish vote, they should start a campaign to discourage young Jews from attending college and convince them to go live in places like Huntington, WV and Cape Girardeau, MO. Over time, they will "assimilate" to their new surroundings (of course, they will also probably stop identifying as Jewish).
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 11:25:12 pm »

American Jews have a long history of progressive activism in the country and generally care more about domestic issues - which only further cements their progressivism.

Also, as a minority ethnicity AND religion, Jews in America have had to make cultural and traditional sacrifices to maintain their identity while also being integrated members of American society.


Also, American Jewish voting patterns can be traced, somewhat, to when their families immigrated to America and where they settled and what experiences they had in America. American Jewish voting patterns are more diverse then meets the eye.

For example, Sephardic Jews made up a large part of the first wave of American Jews at the time of the country's founding. Many of these Jews lived in southern cities like Charleston, Raleigh and Savannah. Thus, this subgroup of Jews were more likely to serve in the confederacy, or adopt more southern-style political views. A good example would be someone like Judah Benjamin, who served as the Confederate Secretary of State.


There were a few Ashkenazi Jews in the South as well. Such as the Mordecai family from North Carolina. Alfred Mordecai was my favorite of this family. An American patriot, and loyal family man, he served honorably in the US Military but resigned in 1861 because he refused to betray America but also refused to fight against his southern kin.

People like Benjamin and Mordecai, comparably, faced way less discrimination in Southern America compared to their Northern counterparts and integrated in a more conservative fashion in many cases.

However, in the north, where the numbers were more even between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, there was more discrimination against Jews. Haym Salomon, a Sephardic Jew who helped finance the American Revolution, and Jacob I. Cohen and Solomon Etting, Jr., Ashkenazi Jews of German-Jewish heritage, helped win political liberation for Jews in Maryland by fighting for the right to run for public office in Maryland.


Jews like Salomon, Cohen and Etting would represent a rugged commitment to American patriotism that was based out a more progressive opposition to discrimination.  

These differences in experiences continue to shape American Jewry's views on politics to this day, though, in different ways.

For example, Ashkenazi Jews who immigrated from Central and Eastern Europe and pre-USSR Russia were very left-wing in terms of economic views and were often aligned with socialist politics.

And Ashkenazi Jews who immigrated to America before, during and after WW2 faced the horrors of pogroms in europe and the holocaust, tended to develop a personal commitment to opposing the horrors of racism, poverty and discrimination anywhere they saw it.


However, Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews who immigrated to America from places like the USSR and the middle east are more likely to be conservative in outlook. They either escaped the iron fist of communism or the oppressive arm of Arabic nationalism. This most recent wave of Immigrant Jews have a romanticzed view of American leadership and tend to be more hawkish on foreign affairs and more conservative or traditional on social issues.


Of course, I am speaking generally here, and there has been overlap from all of these groups into both of these political streams of conscience, but its just something i have been thinking about.

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Old School Republican
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 11:27:06 pm »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Significant_Jewish_population_centers


The Top 8 in this List are all overwhelmingly Democratic cities
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SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 11:30:40 pm »

Also, there's a clear religious divide in the politics of American Jews.

Reform and Conservative are the more theologically and politically liberal streams of American Judaism.

Modern Orthodox ranges anywhere from center-left, to center, to center-right.

Orthodox Jews and Haredi and Hasidic Jews are clearly staunch republicans, populist-conservatives, or conservatives.

Also, Zaybay made a lot of really good points in his post and I wanted to make note of that.



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SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 11:40:04 pm »

Some examples of liberal jewish activism:

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/167281/1964-civil-rights-act

https://www.csjo.org/resources/essays/jews-in-the-american-labor-movement

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-soviet-jewry-movement-in-america/

Some examples of conservative jewish activism:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanders-trump-russians/477045/

https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/jewish-political-conservatism-the-emergence-of-republican-jews/

https://forward.com/news/national/307245/how-orthodox-money-is-reshaping-republican-politics/

https://www.momentmag.com/opinion-inside-the-republican-jewish-coalition/
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 03:29:28 am »

jews care about other issues?

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes
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RFayette
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 03:45:57 am »

In America, Jews disproportionately tend to...

(1) Have college degrees
(2) Live in urban areas

Those things, particularly when taken together, make it extremely unlikely that someone is going to vote Republican.

If Republicans really want to win a larger share of the Jewish vote, they should start a campaign to discourage young Jews from attending college and convince them to go live in places like Huntington, WV and Cape Girardeau, MO. Over time, they will "assimilate" to their new surroundings (of course, they will also probably stop identifying as Jewish).


This is true, but Jews have been voting Democratic far longer than other urban/upscale suburban college-educated white groups have been.  They were some of the strongest supporters of FDR and have been solidly Dem since.  It is surprising that Hillary did worse than Kerry with Jewish voters, for example.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

There is strong Democratic ancestry at play here, on top of the contemporary factors associated with Democratic voting, such as being a college-educated person residing in an urban area.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 03:58:09 am »

In America, Jews disproportionately tend to...

(1) Have college degrees
(2) Live in urban areas

Those things, particularly when taken together, make it extremely unlikely that someone is going to vote Republican.

If Republicans really want to win a larger share of the Jewish vote, they should start a campaign to discourage young Jews from attending college and convince them to go live in places like Huntington, WV and Cape Girardeau, MO. Over time, they will "assimilate" to their new surroundings (of course, they will also probably stop identifying as Jewish).


This is true, but Jews have been voting Democratic far longer than other urban/upscale suburban college-educated white groups have been.  They were some of the strongest supporters of FDR and have been solidly Dem since.  It is surprising that Hillary did worse than Kerry with Jewish voters, for example.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

There is strong Democratic ancestry at play here, on top of the contemporary factors associated with Democratic voting, such as being a college-educated person residing in an urban area.
As for Kerry, I wouldn't be surprised if many Jews thought "You're unpatriotic if you oppose my war" sounded like Hitler calling them "un-German".
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 11:12:01 am »

jews care about other issues?

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes

Please explain why your delusional mind sees this as an anti-Semitic trope. Or do you see all Jews as Israeli? That would seem to be an anti-Semitic trope to me.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2019, 11:51:30 am »

In America, Jews disproportionately tend to...

(1) Have college degrees
(2) Live in urban areas

Those things, particularly when taken together, make it extremely unlikely that someone is going to vote Republican.

If Republicans really want to win a larger share of the Jewish vote, they should start a campaign to discourage young Jews from attending college and convince them to go live in places like Huntington, WV and Cape Girardeau, MO. Over time, they will "assimilate" to their new surroundings (of course, they will also probably stop identifying as Jewish).


This is true, but Jews have been voting Democratic far longer than other urban/upscale suburban college-educated white groups have been.  They were some of the strongest supporters of FDR and have been solidly Dem since.  It is surprising that Hillary did worse than Kerry with Jewish voters, for example.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

There is strong Democratic ancestry at play here, on top of the contemporary factors associated with Democratic voting, such as being a college-educated person residing in an urban area.
As for Kerry, I wouldn't be surprised if many Jews thought "You're unpatriotic if you oppose my war" sounded like Hitler calling them "un-German".

...What the hell is this.

No, it's that Bush's campaign was openly, unapologetically, and blatantly Christian in a way that makes non-Christians deeply uncomfortable (and which no GOP candidate has done since).
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2019, 01:22:43 pm »

jews care about other issues?

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes

Please explain why your delusional mind sees this as an anti-Semitic trope. Or do you see all Jews as Israeli? That would seem to be an anti-Semitic trope to me.

You were very clearly hinting at the "double loyalty" sh**t that asks Jews to choose their loyalty. The existence of the Jewish state is just the recent development in this trope.

American Jews are indeed Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that they CAN let Israel influence their politics, just like Ukrainian Americans can be influenced by Ukraine policy and Palestinian Americans by Palestinian policy. For some reason, no one is looking at the latter two examples crookedly. I'm not implying you're an antisemite or anything (though that neat recommend feature tells me Atlas' biggest antismite delights in your calling me delusional), but these themes, like "double loyalty", are ingrained in many people's minds and understanding it is important.
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2019, 03:00:32 pm »

jews care about other issues?

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes

Please explain why your delusional mind sees this as an anti-Semitic trope. Or do you see all Jews as Israeli? That would seem to be an anti-Semitic trope to me.

You were very clearly hinting at the "double loyalty" sh**t that asks Jews to choose their loyalty. The existence of the Jewish state is just the recent development in this trope.

American Jews are indeed Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that they CAN let Israel influence their politics, just like Ukrainian Americans can be influenced by Ukraine policy and Palestinian Americans by Palestinian policy. For some reason, no one is looking at the latter two examples crookedly. I'm not implying you're an antisemite or anything (though that neat recommend feature tells me Atlas' biggest antismite delights in your calling me delusional), but these themes, like "double loyalty", are ingrained in many people's minds and understanding it is important.

I was hinting at nothing. I find this question which repeatedly comes up incredible inane (the question being any variation of "why do Jews vote left if the left is anti-Israel"). Although the OP is a red avatar it is almost exclusively asked by the right wing who expect American Jews to suddenly vote Republican because Trump is so pro-Israel. The only accusation of dual loyalty comes from the likes of Trump and the GOP who expect American Jews to start voting GOP because of the GOP's support and the Democrats perceived lack of support for Israel (remember Trump's "your" PM comment?)

My comment was merely meant to point out the absurdity of expecting American Jews political habits to move in a uniform motion with the DEM/GOP treatment of Israel.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2019, 04:28:28 pm »

jews care about other issues?

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes

Please explain why your delusional mind sees this as an anti-Semitic trope. Or do you see all Jews as Israeli? That would seem to be an anti-Semitic trope to me.

You were very clearly hinting at the "double loyalty" sh**t that asks Jews to choose their loyalty. The existence of the Jewish state is just the recent development in this trope.

American Jews are indeed Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that they CAN let Israel influence their politics, just like Ukrainian Americans can be influenced by Ukraine policy and Palestinian Americans by Palestinian policy. For some reason, no one is looking at the latter two examples crookedly. I'm not implying you're an antisemite or anything (though that neat recommend feature tells me Atlas' biggest antismite delights in your calling me delusional), but these themes, like "double loyalty", are ingrained in many people's minds and understanding it is important.

I was hinting at nothing. I find this question which repeatedly comes up incredible inane (the question being any variation of "why do Jews vote left if the left is anti-Israel"). Although the OP is a red avatar it is almost exclusively asked by the right wing who expect American Jews to suddenly vote Republican because Trump is so pro-Israel. The only accusation of dual loyalty comes from the likes of Trump and the GOP who expect American Jews to start voting GOP because of the GOP's support and the Democrats perceived lack of support for Israel (remember Trump's "your" PM comment?)

My comment was merely meant to point out the absurdity of expecting American Jews political habits to move in a uniform motion with the DEM/GOP treatment of Israel.

Alright, I do think it could've been worded better but maybe it's my nuanced attention to these things Tongue And oh, yeah, I remember Trump's comment and I think it's extremely inane and not much better than the "all about the Benjamins" comment. Of course, I think accusations of double loyalty come from the far-left too, but that's another discussion.
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