LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence (Referred to referendum)

[S019]

The only thing that needs extermination here is this bill.

You are a liberal, you support gun control

You are a conservative, you oppose gun control

Gun control has like 70-90 percent of support, it is much more likely to have an anti-inflammatory conservative than a pro-gun liberal

A clear majority of liberals in this game are pro-gun. Meanwhile there are maybe 2, 3 conservatives who are pro-gun control.

I am sure I can get four votes out of the Council, many of the members are much more left-wing, and there are some moderate conservatives, who may back it as well. If it needs to be watered down that is fine, but I am confident that the votes are there

[AustralianSwingVoter]

The only thing that needs extermination here is this bill.

You are a liberal, you support gun control

You are a conservative, you oppose gun control

Gun control has like 70-90 percent of support, it is much more likely to have an anti-inflammatory conservative than a pro-gun liberal

A clear majority of liberals in this game are pro-gun. Meanwhile there are maybe 2, 3 conservatives who are pro-gun control.

I am sure I can get four votes out of the Council, many of the members are much more left-wing, and there are some moderate conservatives, who may back it as well. If it needs to be watered down that is fine, but I am confident that the votes are there

Yeah you're totally wrong. If anything I'd be shocked if anyone other than yourself votes in favour of this.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This isn't even a well-written bill.  It's basically an anti-gun wish list to Santa.

What is an "assault weapon"?  There is no legal criteria for one.

Why should freaking 35 be the age at which you can purchase a gun when you can be 16 to drive a motor vehicle which causes thousands of more deaths per year than firearms?

How much time does the Lincoln Council intend on wasting to approve individual gun applications?

[YE]

Guess no firearm for me for 15 years.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Guess no firearm for me for 15 years.

And then there's a 2 year waiting period.

[Sirius_]

Lincoln already has a licensing system that works far better, and this is an absurd beurocratic nightmare.

[Former President tack50]

Beyond the watermelon knife memes, I have to say I like the intent of the bill, but it goes way too far and I say this as someone who is generally pro gun control. Here's my ammendment, which will give it a more bill-like structure and take out/soften some of the more controversial sections:

Ammendment L 2:27 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms; or semi-automatic firearms with a firing rate higher than 1 bullet/second is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

2. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

3. Background checks shall be conducted on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

4. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

6. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

7. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

This amendment shall replace the bill in its entirety

Sponsor feedback: Friendly
Status: Added to the bill

[Former President tack50]

Differences between this version and S019's version:

> Instead of Banning all assault weapons, this only bans automatic weapons (which I think are already banned, like in RL?) and semi-automatics above a certain firing rate

>The 2 year waiting period (which seems like a dumb idea) is taken out

>Only people with a violent conviction (and others if the judge wants) are banned from purchasing firearms. But no one is banned only on a charge.

>People above 21 (instead of 35) are allowed to use guns. If you can't get legally drunk, you also can't fire a shot

>Licensing is taken from the old Lincoln Gun Control Act, which was partially repealed. With this ammendment the old gun control act is reinstated in full force, which includes licenses.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Differences between this version and S019's version:

> Instead of Banning all assault weapons, this only bans automatic weapons (which I think are already banned, like in RL?) and semi-automatics above a certain firing rate

This is actually more restrictive than SNJCs proposal. Under SNJCs only assault weapons (a subset of semiautomatic rifle) would have been banned. This expands the ban to all machine guns (even though its easier to legally buy uranium than a machine gun) and all semiautomatic firearms, including the bulk of handguns out there and even .22 rifles which are practically a children's toy. The effect of such a ban would be dozens of millions of currently legal weapons becoming criminal.

[Former President tack50]

Differences between this version and S019's version:

> Instead of Banning all assault weapons, this only bans automatic weapons (which I think are already banned, like in RL?) and semi-automatics above a certain firing rate

This is actually more restrictive than SNJCs proposal. Under SNJCs only assault weapons (a subset of semiautomatic rifle) would have been banned. This expands the ban to all machine guns (even though its easier to legally buy uranium than a machine gun) and all semiautomatic firearms, including the bulk of handguns out there and even .22 rifles which are practically a children's toy. The effect of such a ban would be dozens of millions of currently legal weapons becoming criminal.

Huh, I assumed assault weapons meant pretty much everything that wasn't a handgun. I guess I'll correct that later.

Honestly my biggest worry with that part is the loss of sales to other regions. I considered putting a ban on the importation of guns to Lincoln, but imagined it would be unconstitutional.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Differences between this version and S019's version:

> Instead of Banning all assault weapons, this only bans automatic weapons (which I think are already banned, like in RL?) and semi-automatics above a certain firing rate

This is actually more restrictive than SNJCs proposal. Under SNJCs only assault weapons (a subset of semiautomatic rifle) would have been banned. This expands the ban to all machine guns (even though its easier to legally buy uranium than a machine gun) and all semiautomatic firearms, including the bulk of handguns out there and even .22 rifles which are practically a children's toy. The effect of such a ban would be dozens of millions of currently legal weapons becoming criminal.

Huh, I assumed assault weapons meant pretty much everything that wasn't a handgun. I guess I'll correct that later.

Honestly my biggest worry with that part is the loss of sales to other regions. I considered putting a ban on the importation of guns to Lincoln, but imagined it would be unconstitutional.

A ban solely on importation would probably be unconstitutional on protectionism grounds, as states or Regions are very limited in the extent to which they can target/disfavor out of state commerce.

[S019]

Beyond the watermelon knife memes, I have to say I like the intent of the bill, but it goes way too far and I say this as someone who is generally pro gun control. Here's my ammendment, which will give it a more bill-like structure and take out/soften some of the more controversial sections:

Ammendment L 2:27 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms; or semi-automatic firearms with a firing rate higher than 1 bullet/second is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

2. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

3. Background checks shall be conducted on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

4. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

6. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

7. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

This amendment shall replace the bill in its entirety

Sponsor feedback: 24h to specify, otherwise assume unfriendly
Status: Waiting for sponsor

Friendly

[Former President tack50]

After hearing Mr. R's concerns, here's a 2nd ammendment (ironic )

Ammendment L 2:28 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms with a firing rate higher than 1 bullet/second is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

2. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

3. Background checks shall be conducted on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

4. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

6. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

7. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

Sponsor feedback: Hostile
Status: Debating (24h)

[S019]

After hearing Mr. R's concerns, here's a 2nd ammendment (ironic )

Ammendment L 2:28 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms with a firing rate higher than 1 bullet/second is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

2. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

3. Background checks shall be conducted on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

4. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

6. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

7. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

Sponsor feedback: 24h to specify, otherwise assumed unfriendly
Status: Waiting for sponsor

Hostile, but only, because I liked L 2.27

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a vote is now open on the following amendment

Ammendment L 2:28 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms with a firing rate higher than 1 bullet/second is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

2. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

3. Background checks shall be conducted on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

4. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

6. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

7. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 24h or until all councillors have voted

[Former President tack50]

Aye

[lfromnj]

Nay

[S019]

Aye

[Peanut]

This Amendment is an alright way to water down SNJC's downright unconstitutional and unenforceable bill. Good to see.

[lfromnj]

Aye

Did you just declare an amendment hostile but then vote aye on it?

[S019]

Aye

Did you just declare an amendment hostile but then vote aye on it?

At first, I liked the current bill, but then I realized this was a good compromise measure, as neither my bill, nor Tack's original amendment, were going to pass

[Adam Griffin]

Aye

[Former President tack50]

Nay

Nay

Huh, didn't think you would be supporters of strict gun control.

For the record: this amendment would allow the sale of semi-automatic firearms while the unamended version would ban sales of those.

It's not a vote on the entire amendment, just that tiny section.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Nay

Nay

Huh, didn't think you would be supporters of strict gun control.

For the record: this amendment would allow the sale of semi-automatic firearms while the unamended version would ban sales of those.

It's not a vote on the entire amendment, just that tiny section.

I think the concern is that even the amended version is really really really bad and making it more likely to pass is not advisable. I mean, this act claims to be about gun violence but IIRC there has been maybe 3 violent crimes committed with a legally owned machine gun since 1934 (excluding deaths caused by law enforcement). I have no idea why people think that would reduce violence when none exists in the first place. Plus the total ban on concealed carry would invalidate millions of permits, there is no reason to restrict ownership to persons over 21 considering younger persons hunt, can work as security or law enforcement, and literally participate in Olympic shooting, and the Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 which is to be reinstated was almost as bad as SNJCs original bill.

And while I hope the federal government will allow Regions to permit firearms rights restoration for felons in the future, much of section 4 is federally preempted as federal law is what prohibits all felons from owning guns, and the region cant limit it to just 15 years or just 1 class of felons.

[Sirius_]

Aye