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August 24, 2019, 12:49:50 pm
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  LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence (Referred to referendum)
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Author Topic: LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence (Referred to referendum)  (Read 1640 times)
Ninja0428
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« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2019, 05:40:01 pm »

Aye
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tack50
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« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2019, 05:50:58 pm »

The vote on Ammendment L 2:28 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence is now closed

Aye: 3 (tack50, S019, Griffin)
Abstain: 0
Nay: 2 (lfromnj, thr33)
Not voting: 2 (Pyro, Dipper Josh)
Voted too late: 1 (Ninja)

So this amendment passes.

PD: Oof, Ninja voted 5 minutes late. Thankfully not decisive, but still.
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tack50
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« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2019, 07:36:18 pm »

So, have we turned SNJC's watermelon knife meme bill into something that can actually pass the Council? Only time will tell

I motion for a final vote, 24h to object
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Pyro
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« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2019, 12:45:23 pm »
« Edited: May 24, 2019, 12:48:42 pm by Pyro »

I object.

There are several major issues with this bill that have not been addressed.

1. Why does Lincoln need background checks if they are already required federally?

2. I am extremely wary of the "violent crime" segment of this bill. I support the notion that those who commit heinous acts have their access to weaponry severely restricted, however is it not true that this is essentially covered through the mandated background check? I am also not fond of the idea that firearm rights can be revoked for "other crimes".

3. I vehemently oppose the age restriction set in this bill. If an individual can be drafted into war, they should be able to purchase a firearm. The threshold should be 18 years and nothing more.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2019, 02:24:56 pm »

I object.

There are several major issues with this bill that have not been addressed.

1. Why does Lincoln need background checks if they are already required federally?

2. I am extremely wary of the "violent crime" segment of this bill. I support the notion that those who commit heinous acts have their access to weaponry severely restricted, however is it not true that this is essentially covered through the mandated background check? I am also not fond of the idea that firearm rights can be revoked for "other crimes".

3. I vehemently oppose the age restriction set in this bill. If an individual can be drafted into war, they should be able to purchase a firearm. The threshold should be 18 years and nothing more.

I think these are reasonable objections from Pyro.

Im also still concerned with the machine gun ban as there have only been 3 crimes committed with a legally registered machine gun in the country in 70 years. Remember it is not easy to get one, they are expensive, and federal regs mandate fingerprints, registration, recordkeeping, rules for storage, Transportation, and letting others touch it, on top of the background checks. Machine guns aren't actually a violence problem right now.
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tack50
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« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2019, 06:04:31 pm »

Well, I think the rules of the council pretty much force me to do this (maybe I should not call for final votes so lightly)

Councillors, a vote on the objection to a final vote is now open

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48h or untill all Councillors have voted
As this piece of legislation has been on the floor of the Council for more than 240 hours, a simple majority is needed
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S019
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« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2019, 06:06:19 pm »

Aye
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tack50
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« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2019, 06:15:20 pm »

Abstain

To try and answer some of Pyro's and Mr R's concerns:

I object.

There are several major issues with this bill that have not been addressed.

1. Why does Lincoln need background checks if they are already required federally?

2. I am extremely wary of the "violent crime" segment of this bill. I support the notion that those who commit heinous acts have their access to weaponry severely restricted, however is it not true that this is essentially covered through the mandated background check? I am also not fond of the idea that firearm rights can be revoked for "other crimes".

3. I vehemently oppose the age restriction set in this bill. If an individual can be drafted into war, they should be able to purchase a firearm. The threshold should be 18 years and nothing more.

1: I will admit, I did not know background checks were required federally. Of course that does beg the question of whether these new background checks would be more or less restrictive than the federal ones, though they might end up being unnecessary.

2: Again this might end up being a superfluous section though I don't think there's any harm on having it explicitly defined. As for banning people for non-violent crimes, it does depend on the nature of the crime. I certainly wouldn't trust someone convicted for non-violent theft with a gun. After all, a gun only makes them more likely to later do violent theft at gunpoint. I decided to leave this to the judge's discretion though (which does open a whole other debate on whether that would be fair or not)

3: Well, I decided to go with "if you can't drink a shot with alcohol, you can't fire a shot with a gun". Admittedly, that might end up being more of an argument for lowering the drinking age than one for raising the gun owning age. In any case, I'm fine with an age of 18 as well. For what's worth, the Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 which would be reinstated does have an owning age of 21 for assault rifles

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Lincoln_Gun_Control_Act_of_2018


I think these are reasonable objections from Pyro.

Im also still concerned with the machine gun ban as there have only been 3 crimes committed with a legally registered machine gun in the country in 70 years. Remember it is not easy to get one, they are expensive, and federal regs mandate fingerprints, registration, recordkeeping, rules for storage, Transportation, and letting others touch it, on top of the background checks. Machine guns aren't actually a violence problem right now.

Regarding automatic machine guns, I won't lie, that was a quick and dirty way to try and get at least "some" ban while fixing the overly restrictive first version (which would have banned most guns I believe). I realize (legally owned) machine guns are far from a violence problem.

For what's worth, I don't think that provision does much harm either. Owners of automatic machine guns will still be able to keep them, they just won't be able to sell them in Lincoln. On hindsight I should have either done a better thought amendment or removed the section entirely.
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Zaybay
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« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2019, 06:21:30 pm »

Abstain
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thr33_
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« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2019, 07:03:02 pm »

Nay

Lincoln is a moderate region so I can understand support for gun control measures. I personally oppose any limitations on the second amendment but respect that this effort is taking place on a state level rather than federally. The individual states in the region are pretty diverse, but we are the least rural of the three so it’s passage wouldn’t shock me.
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President Griffin
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« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2019, 09:54:35 pm »

Abstain
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Ninja0428
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« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2019, 09:59:48 pm »

Nay, because it seems like debate is still ongoing.
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Dipper Josh
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« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2019, 08:17:04 am »

Abstain
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Pyro
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« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2019, 06:31:59 pm »

Nay.
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tack50
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« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2019, 07:24:36 pm »

The vote on the final vote call is now closed

Aye: 1 (SNJC)
Abstain: 4 (Dipper Josh, Griffin, Zaybay, tack50)
Nay: 3 (thr33, Ninja, Pyro)
Not voting: 0
Leave of Absence: 1 (lfromnj)

So the motion is defeated and debate shall continue
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tack50
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« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2019, 01:55:30 pm »

Well, I didn't abstain and allow debate to continue only for it to inmediately stop once the motion failed Tongue

Oh well, I guess meanwhile I'll propose this amendment to try and solve Pyro's and Mr. R's concerns.

Regarding the expressed concerns:

The ban on the sale of automatic firearms, which as Mr. R mentioned isn't really an issue, is removed.

It is now specified that the background checks are the same as the federal ones.

The provision that allowed judges to remove firearm access for "other crimes" is removed.

The provision regarding the minimum age for adquiring guns is removed. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 does already establish these restrictions through it's licensing process.


Amendment L 2:46 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

Quote
A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms  is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

1. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

2. Background checks shall be conducted by the reinstated Bureau of Firearm Safety and Licensing (BFSL), as established by federal regulations on gun related background checks. on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

3. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include, but are not limited to: rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, assault, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

4. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

5. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

Sponsor feedback: 24 hours to specify, otherwise assumed unfriendly
Status: Waiting for sponsor

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Pyro
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« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2019, 02:06:09 pm »

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This seems far more reasonable.

It would be my position, though, that we should add a line in section 3 denoting, "Should the conviction be overturned, the ban shall no longer be in effect."
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Governor Peanut
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« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2019, 03:21:56 pm »

Hmm. This Amendment is, of course, more reasonable (and I concur with the Chancellor on the clarification regarding overturned convictions). All in all, good amendment.
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S019
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« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2019, 03:36:50 pm »

Parts of this are friendly, parts are unfriendly

Hostile, let's put the amendment up for a vote
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2019, 04:07:29 pm »

Just a note, the present definition for violent crime is probably unconstitutionally vague as applied to some citizens. An exhaustive list is the best way out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagueness_doctrine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sessions_v._Dimaya
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S019
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« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2019, 12:58:36 pm »

Following the objections over the age of 21, there is no draft, to draft people into, in Atlasia, so 18 does not need to be the required age, I support the proposal of 21
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tack50
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« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2019, 10:52:00 am »

Councillors, a vote is now open on the following amendment

Amendment L 2:46 by tack50 to LC 2.4 A Bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

Quote
A bill to Exterminate Gun Violence

1. The sale of any automatic firearms  is hereby prohibited in the Region of Lincoln.

1. The practice of concealed carry is hereby banned in all states and territories under the jurisdiction of Lincoln

2. Background checks shall be conducted by the reinstated Bureau of Firearm Safety and Licensing (BFSL), as established by federal regulations on gun related background checks. on all people who desire to buy a gun in Lincoln. These background checks shall last for 2 weeks. Buyers of firearms shall turn over all documents required for performing these background checks.

3. All residents of Lincoln convicted of a violent crime shall be banned from purchasing a gun or firearm for 15 years after the end of their sentence. Violent crimes include, but are not limited to: rape, murder, homicide, robbery, agression, assault, car theft, domestic violence, kidnapping, terrorism and terrorist threats. Judges may also give this sentence to people convicted of other crimes.

5. The sale of firearms to any person under the age of 21 shall be prohibited in this region.

4. The Lincoln Gun Control Repeal Act of 2018 is hereby repealed

5. The Lincoln Gun Control Act of 2018 is hereby reinstated with all its provisions intact, as originally passed by the old Lincoln Assembly

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 24 hours or until all Councillors have voted
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Lfromnj stands with Sanchez.
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2019, 11:10:36 am »

Abstain
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tack50
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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2019, 11:10:51 am »

Aye
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S019
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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2019, 11:24:15 am »

Abstain
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