LC 2.23 Griffin's Transportation Improvement Bill (Statute)
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  LC 2.23 Griffin's Transportation Improvement Bill (Statute)
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Author Topic: LC 2.23 Griffin's Transportation Improvement Bill (Statute)  (Read 1145 times)
Former President tack50
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« on: May 28, 2019, 11:08:13 AM »
« edited: June 14, 2019, 06:10:02 AM by tack50 »

Quote
Transportation Improvement Bill

Section 1 (Title & Definitions)
1. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "road" refers to any avenue of transit.
2. For the purposes of this legislation, the word "toll" refers to any fee collected in exchange for access to a public or private avenue of transit.

Section 2 (Regulation of Toll Roads)
1. As of July 1, 2019, the practice of collecting tolls on any roads that are built and/or maintained with public funding shall be abolished.
2. As of July 1, 2019, any roads built and maintained exclusively with private funding may charge tolls, not to exceed $0.10 per mile.
3. As of July 1, 2019, all profits collected from tolls shall be taxed at a rate of 50%.

Sponsor: Adam Griffin

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last no less than 72 hours
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S019
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 08:59:31 PM »

I oppose this bill


Abolishing toll roads forces us to raise gas taxes, and we wouldn't want them even higher than needed for the budget
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Sirius_
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 10:09:11 PM »

I will not support this bill. Going through with this plan would be financially irresponsible, and would not only increase Lincoln's deficit but also the federal deficit, as a huge number of highways (like probably most of them in this region) become open to public funding, which they inevitably will receive. And no, taxpayers are NOT charged for toll road maintenance unless they drive on them. It is not a double whammy.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 08:56:23 AM »

I fear I have to agree with the opposition here.

Tolls are a legitimate way to fund roads, that allows the users to pay for road maintenance instead of all citizens of Lincoln, including those that don't use toll roads or don't even drive at all.

There are many ways to pay for the construction of roads and for their maintenance; some with public money, some by private corporations and others with a mix of the 2.

We should indeed reduce tolls wherever possible and we should try to have as many roads built and maintained by the government instead of by private corporations (since the latter is an easy avenue for corruption and can still require government assistance anyways, which is even worse than a government built road), but we shouldn't close any doors in terms of road maintenance and construction.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 12:03:13 PM »

I applaud the good gentleman from Connecticut for this bill, a similar incarnation of which was recently passed unanimously in Frémont. Taxing citizens for using public roads is an odious practice and must be abolished!
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Sirius_
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 12:10:53 PM »

I applaud the good gentleman from Connecticut for this bill, a similar incarnation of which was recently passed unanimously in Frémont. Taxing citizens for using public roads is an odious practice and must be abolished!
That doesn't even make sense. Citizens are still taxed for non-toll roads.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 12:17:33 PM »

I applaud the good gentleman from Connecticut for this bill, a similar incarnation of which was recently passed unanimously in Frémont. Taxing citizens for using public roads is an odious practice and must be abolished!
That doesn't even make sense. Citizens are still taxed for non-toll roads.
Sorry, I should have clarified: assessing a flat tax to pay for infrastructure (essentially what a toll is) is a worse system than other means of financing roads and bridges. Under such a system, someone who earns $30,000 a year and makes a one-hour commute twice a day, six days a week would pay more on average than someone who earns $90,000 working from home. I suppose if you view taxation as a user fee, there isn't anything wrong with that, but it's very problematic if public works are a system maintained by the entire region for the benefit of all.
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Pyro
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 12:37:03 PM »

I am in favor of this proposal and am firm in the belief that roadway tolling is by and large an unjust and unfair tax on commuters and travelers, many of whom are barely making ends meet as it is. My feelings on the matter are not unlike that of fares on public transit. We should, ultimately, follow Frémont's example in erasing the tolling system from our region.

However, it may be wise to wait until the budget is completed prior to completely eliminating a source of revenue without the means to recoup the losses. Perhaps an amendment stating that tolls shall no longer be in effect starting 2021 - that should present ample time to work out an alternate system. Or, at the least, granting low-income commuters a program that assists in toll fees?
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 10:28:06 AM »

We may need some cost analysis for this. How much is the region currently earning from tolls? And also, would this hurt private businesses?
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 10:46:28 AM »

Eliminating tolls for public roads is a good idea.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2019, 11:05:46 AM »

Eliminating tolls for public roads is a good idea.

In general yes it is. Tolls are an evil after all. However, I wonder if removing all public tolls is a good idea or if tolls are a necessary evil in some cases.

I am also not fond of the price controls on private tolls, although the state should have a say in what to charge for sure.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 05:45:22 PM »

Ok, so after some research, I have been able to find this document, which apparently tells the distribution of toll revenue by state. Not sure if these are just public tolls or all tolls but I'll take this.

For the states that make up Lincoln, the total toll revenue is approximately $8.78bn. That is a lot of money, especially if we are going to take half of it Surprise

However, I am not sure as I said if these are public tolls, private tolls, or both. We also need to keep in mind that a lot of this money actually is reinvested in road conservation and construction, although a significant amount goes to other purposes (generally 20%). So I'll assume these are public tolls. If we are lucky and can take 50% of this to the budget as revenue, we might need to increase the transportation budget slightly.

Either way, more research is probably needed I guess.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2019, 07:23:20 PM »

Well, debate seems to have died out.

I motion for a final vote, 24 hours to object.

Also, after some private conversations, I have been convinced this is overall a good bill and that we should pass it. If we end up requiring more funding or roads raising the gas tax is a better alternative.
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S019
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 12:35:38 AM »
« Edited: June 09, 2019, 01:57:20 AM by Councilor Suburban New Jersey Conservative »

I object


I went to New York today, and whole many New Yorkers may not like the tolls, they are necessary, plus $0.10 is neglible, and where will all of the lost money, come from, abolishing tolls is like Communism, sounds good in theory, but comes out bad, in practice


NOTE: Abolishing tolls =/= Communism
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2019, 01:24:03 AM »


That's one hell of a hot take. Apparently once this passes we'll all be flying red flags above the Reichstag.
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Fmr. Representative Encke
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2019, 01:41:59 AM »

I'll point out that, as currently written, this bill would also abolish any toll roads operated by a local government entity. Since the Lincoln budget only absorbs state, and not local expenditures (including those related to transportation), it seems unfair to eliminate a source of revenue for localities without any clear alternative.
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S019
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2019, 01:57:59 AM »


That's one hell of a hot take. Apparently once this passes we'll all be flying red flags above the Reichstag.

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Former President tack50
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2019, 06:27:25 AM »

I'll point out that, as currently written, this bill would also abolish any toll roads operated by a local government entity. Since the Lincoln budget only absorbs state, and not local expenditures (including those related to transportation), it seems unfair to eliminate a source of revenue for localities without any clear alternative.

I imagine this bill would essencially de-facto centralize tolls in Lincoln?

So tolls as a source of revenue would be eliminated, but so would the need for local governments to do road maintenance and the like.


That's one hell of a hot take. Apparently once this passes we'll all be flying red flags above the Reichstag.

Oh no, SNJC caught our plan to turn the region into the People's Republic of Lincoln by abolishing tolls Surprise
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2019, 06:28:44 AM »
« Edited: June 09, 2019, 08:32:11 AM by tack50 »

With SNJC's objection

Councillors, a vote is open on the objection to a final vote

Should we end debate and proceed to a final vote?

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 48 hours or until all Councillors have voted
As this bill has been in the floor of the council for more than 240 hours, a simple majority is needed to proceed
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 07:18:28 AM »

Aye
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Zaybay
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2019, 08:14:04 AM »

AYE
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Pyro
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2019, 10:33:01 AM »

Aye
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S019
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2019, 11:20:25 AM »

Nay
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lfromnj
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2019, 11:24:40 AM »

Aye
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Dipper Josh
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2019, 01:32:26 PM »

Aye
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