Louie CK, its time

[dead0man]

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

[PSOL]

I think that his repentance was acceptable enough to restart his career. My only gripe is how fast he was re-accepted back into stardom.

Don’t get me wrong, the act was disgusting and the level of pushback was appropriate, but a lot of his actions point to the fact that he is a very unwell man. He’s been open about this implicitly and explicitly in his own shows and stand-up acts, btw, leading me to believe that what he needs now is less attention on screen and more time with a reputable mental health professional to work out his obvious issues with women.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

HP, but some of his comedy is alright.


I agree with PSOL that it's ridiculous he's already basically been forgiven for what he did, given the serious nature of it. I also agree he clearly needs real help.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I think that his repentance was acceptable enough to restart his career. My only gripe is how fast he was re-accepted back into stardom.

Don’t get me wrong, the act was disgusting and the level of pushback was appropriate, but a lot of his actions point to the fact that he is a very unwell man. He’s been open about this implicitly and explicitly in his own shows and stand-up acts, btw, leading me to believe that what he needs now is less attention on screen and more time with a reputable mental health professional to work out his obvious issues with women.

What repentance?  He did a standup show that got recorded and leaked and was basically just him whining about how Teh Evulz Femnazis won’t stop unjustly persecuting him.  The guy is pretty clearly a terrible person who has used his former influence in the industry to actively try to destroy the careers of any of his victims he thought might be willing to speak to reporters about the sexual harassment they suffered at his hands.

He’s clearly both a horrible person and a very sick man who needs serious psychological treatment.

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

Holy disingenuous oversimplification, Batman!

[John Dule]

An excellent comedian; one of my all-time favorites. Conflating him with someone like Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein is unbelievably disingenuous. His recent bit on the Parkland kids shows that despite all this, he's still not afraid of being controversial.

[dead0man]

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

Holy disingenuous oversimplification, Batman!

What part did I get wrong?  He certainly didn't physically force them to stay.  I've heard stories that he threaten to harm their careers, but I've seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty sure both of them have said that he did not.

[DINGO Joe]

He's mostly funny, but occasionally got too artsy with his show cause I guess he could.  Comedians seem to generally be miserable insecure people so on that level it's easy to see how he got away with it for so long, even if it wasn't something you would imagine was going on, until you heard about and thought "yeah, I'm not surprised".  Can you make someone like CK so miserable that he'll truly see the errors of his way, instead of merely acknowledging the behavior is wrong?  Probably not.

I voted first and last.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

Holy disingenuous oversimplification, Batman!

What part did I get wrong?  He certainly didn't physically force them to stay.  I've heard stories that he threaten to harm their careers, but I've seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty sure both of them have said that he did not.

A few things off the top of my head:

First, there were five women.  Second, there is at least one published news article about how he ruined one of his victims’ career.  Third, the women did not leave giggling.  Two of them laughed when he asked if he could do the thing in front of them thinking that he was joking...then he took of his clothes and began jerking off and both women were by all accounts horrified.

[dead0man]

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

Holy disingenuous oversimplification, Batman!

What part did I get wrong?  He certainly didn't physically force them to stay.  I've heard stories that he threaten to harm their careers, but I've seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty sure both of them have said that he did not.

A few things off the top of my head:

First, there were five women.  Second, there is at least one published news article about how he ruined one of his victims’ career.  Third, the women did not leave giggling.  Two of them laughed when he asked if he could do the thing in front of them thinking that he was joking...then he took of his clothes and began jerking off and both women were by all accounts horrified.

the NY Times article

As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said.

They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.”

In 2003, Abby Schachner called Louis C.K. to invite him to one of her shows, and during the phone conversation, she said, she could hear him masturbating as they spoke. Another comedian, Rebecca Corry, said that while she was appearing with Louis C.K. on a television pilot in 2005, he asked if he could masturbate in front of her. She declined.

that's bad stuff, no doubt about it, and the man needs help.  I'm just not sure his career should be canceled because of it.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Notes for sjws/hardcore social authoritarians:

1. Comedy hits and misses. You may not like it but don't attack their character without a real basis like the "thing" in question.

2. If they try to make amends for such a transgression,  be accepting. Don't keep pressing or doxxing them until they are banned from the internet and can't get a job.

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

2 votes

"the thing"=masterbating in front of a couple of comedic peers while they giggled uncomfortably.

Holy disingenuous oversimplification, Batman!

What part did I get wrong?  He certainly didn't physically force them to stay.  I've heard stories that he threaten to harm their careers, but I've seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty sure both of them have said that he did not.

A few things off the top of my head:

First, there were five women.  Second, there is at least one published news article about how he ruined one of his victims’ career.  Third, the women did not leave giggling.  Two of them laughed when he asked if he could do the thing in front of them thinking that he was joking...then he took of his clothes and began jerking off and both women were by all accounts horrified.

the NY Times article

As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said.

They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.”

In 2003, Abby Schachner called Louis C.K. to invite him to one of her shows, and during the phone conversation, she said, she could hear him masturbating as they spoke. Another comedian, Rebecca Corry, said that while she was appearing with Louis C.K. on a television pilot in 2005, he asked if he could masturbate in front of her. She declined.

that's bad stuff, no doubt about it, and the man needs help.  I'm just not sure his career should be canceled because of it.

The thing is, he pretty clearly doesn't think he did anything wrong.  Look, Dan Harmon sexually harassed a woman (and retaliated against his victim when she rejected his advances) and has been largely forgiven (including by his victim, incidentally) because he genuinely took responsibility for his actions in a very thoughtful, detailed, and lengthy apology.  Additionally, Harmon voluntarily admitted what he had done without it becoming public first.  Louis C.K. hasn't done anything to make amends and has even done some "I'm the real victim" style whining.  Even when forgiveness is possible, it has to be earned.  

1. Comedy hits and misses. You may not like it but don't attack their character without a real basis like the "thing" in question.

This has nothing to do with Louis C.K.'s comedy, but you knew that already.  

2. If they try to make amends for such a transgression,  be accepting. Don't keep pressing or doxxing them until they are banned from the internet and can't get a job.

Depends on the transgression, what the "amends" are, whether they are genuine, and how the victims feel about it.  Also, accepting" is very much the wrong word.  Of course, that's a moot point since Louis C.K. hasn't done anything to make amends, quite the opposite in fact.  

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

Said the man, referring to repeated sexual harassment

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

Said the man, referring to repeated sexual harassment

No I was referring to jokes.

4. Don't project.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

Notes for sjws/hardcore social authoritarians:

1. Comedy hits and misses. You may not like it but don't attack their character without a real basis like the "thing" in question.

2. If they try to make amends for such a transgression,  be accepting. Don't keep pressing or doxxing them until they are banned from the internet and can't get a job.

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

You act like he just made some tasteless jokes or something, when he actually literally jerked off in front of women without any form of consent from them. that's pretty damn close to rape.

[SWE]

I was a big fan of his before the relevations. Most of his stuff still holds up pretty well if you can divorce it from the messenger.

The bits and pieces I saw from his recent sets are genuinely bad though. I mean, he had a joke about "I identify as a place." That type of joke was ran into the ground and beaten to death more than a decade ago, really embarrassing to see a professional comedian pull that in 2019. What's next, a bit about airline food?

[Gustaf]

Haven't followed all the followup enough to be certain but, well: what he did was pretty bad. Not as bad as say the Weinstein stuff but still bad. My impression is that a fair bit of it (apart from him being generally unwell) comes from a failure to recognize himself as a person with power and authority.

I'd say it is the sort of thing that seems forgivable (as opposed to again Weinstein who I think is just genuinely evil - then again that might just be my reactionary side on these issues). Whether what he did in response was actually enough to be forgiven I'm not sure of, but from what I've seen it seems dubious.

I wasn't super into him to begin with but thought he was ok. I definitely think we should be careful in letting our personal opinions of artists colour our appreciation of art, for many good reasons. In LCK's case it is a bit harder given that his stand-up persona seems to be a reflection of himself to an uncomfortable degree.

[John Dule]

Notes for sjws/hardcore social authoritarians:

1. Comedy hits and misses. You may not like it but don't attack their character without a real basis like the "thing" in question.

2. If they try to make amends for such a transgression,  be accepting. Don't keep pressing or doxxing them until they are banned from the internet and can't get a job.

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

You act like he just made some tasteless jokes or something, when he actually literally jerked off in front of women without any form of consent from them. that's pretty damn close to rape.

Perhaps I don't understand the concept of consent, but weren't the women in question wholly capable of leaving/telling him to stop? He didn't even touch them. So no, it's not "pretty damn close to rape," and to say that is to expand the definition of rape to the point that it loses all its meaning.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Notes for sjws/hardcore social authoritarians:

1. Comedy hits and misses. You may not like it but don't attack their character without a real basis like the "thing" in question.

2. If they try to make amends for such a transgression,  be accepting. Don't keep pressing or doxxing them until they are banned from the internet and can't get a job.

3. Lighten up,  Francis.

You act like he just made some tasteless jokes or something, when he actually literally jerked off in front of women without any form of consent from them. that's pretty damn close to rape.

Perhaps I don't understand the concept of consent, but weren't the women in question wholly capable of leaving/telling him to stop? He didn't even touch them. So no, it's not "pretty damn close to rape," and to say that is to expand the definition of rape to the point that it loses all its meaning.

Yep, not enough information on a weird event. Unless he kidnapped them, not sure how they couldn't just walk out.

[Illiniwek]

I was always underwhelmed with Louis CK.  I don't recall any of his standup routines, but I hated his unfunny character on Parks & Rec, and I hated his appearances on the Howard Stern Show. So I had no problem writing him off after the thing.

[Progressive Pessimist]

He used to be one of my favorite comedians. Then "the thing happened" and I was kind of repulsed to learn about it. Though at the time, I thought he did the right thing by going under the radar afterwards. However, when he decided to break out into the spotlight once again in a completely unearned way after not courting any sort of redemption, he did what a lot of  people do when they suffer the consequences for something: become an unabashed, obnoxious, reactionary douche. I'm done with him, his image has now been tarnished his jokes, even the ones I used to like, which was most of them. It's kind of the same as going back and watching a Mel Gibson movie. I may still like 'The Road Warrior' or whatever else, but my enjoyment of it isn't the same as it was before his controversies.

[Badger]

He was a decent comedian, but not one of my favorites. I used to think he was awesome, and then his show, after season 1 at least, left me cold. I kept watching it out of the hope that it would become funny again, but it never did.

My biggest concern is, as JTB mentioned, I'm not at all certain he's shown remorse over what he's done. It's one thing to say sorry can I have my career back now, versus being sorry, that was a major league sh**thead thing of me to do and pretty messed up, as was trying to ruin the accusers careers.

Say that second part and mean it's, and I suspect his career will eventually recover.