LC 2.29 The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

[Former President tack50]

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum. The Council may override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

2. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

Sponsor: Governor Peanut
Council Sponsor: tack50

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last no less than 24 hours

[S019]

I'll propose an amendment

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. This bil shall be titled "Reforming the Office of the Governor Act

2. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum veto the bill. The Council may then override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

3. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

4. Article I of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period not exceeding eighteen months.

Sponsor: Governor Peanut
Council Sponsor: tack50

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last no less than 24 hours

[Former President tack50]

I'll let the governor overrule me if he wants, but for me, not friendly.

I am not opposed to lowering impeachment requirements, but 3/5 is too low. And an impeached governor should not be sentenced to an indefinite non-office holding period. 18 months is fine, and I'd actually lower/get rid of that!

If the governor does a crime he can be sued and courts will determine a sentence.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I'm sorry, a governor removed only by a 3/5 majority cannot serve in any public office ever again? This is patently absurd.

[S019]

Amendment to clarify this

I'll propose an amendment

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. This bil shall be titled "Reforming the Office of the Governor Act

2. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum veto the bill. The Council may then override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

3. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

4. Article I of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by a court. not exceeding eighteen months.

Sponsor: Governor Peanut
Council Sponsor: tack50

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last no less than 24 hours

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Amendment to clarify this

and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by a court. not exceeding eighteen months.

I think you mean definite, not indefinite. The court cannot set an indefinite period, because an indefinite period is a period that shall never end.

[S019]

Amendment to clarify this

and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by a court. not exceeding eighteen months.

I think you mean definite, not indefinite. The court cannot set an indefinite period, because an indefinite period is a period that shall never end.

Indefinite: lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Therefore, not forever

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Amendment to clarify this

and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by a court. not exceeding eighteen months.

I think you mean definite, not indefinite. The court cannot set an indefinite period, because an indefinite period is a period that shall never end.

Indefinite: lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Therefore, not forever

A far better wording would be:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence, high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for a period not exceeding eighteen months that shall be set by the Regional Justice/Supreme Court. (pick one)

[S019]

Amendment to clarify this

I'll propose an amendment

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. This bil shall be titled "Reforming the Office of the Governor Act

2. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum veto the bill. The Council may then override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

3. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

4. Article I of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by the regional justice a court. not exceeding eighteen months.

5. Article II of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows

7. The chancellor governor shall lead a Cabinet that may be comprised of a Minister of Internal Affairs, a Minister of Justice, and a Minister of Elections appointed by the chancellor nominated by the Governor, and confirmed with 3/5 of the vote of the Council . . . The chancellor governor shall have the power to create additional executive offices with the approval of two thirds four-fifths of the Council.

Sponsor: Governor Peanut
Council Sponsor: tack50

Debate time for this bill has started and shall last no less than 24 hours

The amendment gives some power to the governor, but not an excessive amount

[Pyro]

The original amendment is sensible and has my support.
A three-fifths majority is preferable in Article 1.6 to a simple majority.

Articles 1.7 and 2.7, however, are fine as-is and do not need to be altered in the proposed manor.

[Sestak]

I think reducing from 4/5 to 2/3 on removal is fine. I don't like this "auto-ban from holding office" thing - if a governor's done something serious enough to warrant it, then prosecute them after they're removed. If a governor who is, for example, removed for inactivity, is able to turn things around after like 9-10 months, then why should they be barred from holding a Council seat afterwards?

[lfromnj]

Not voting for it because of the veto override. Purpose of the original Philladelphia amendment was to make the governor role less powerful and shift power to the council.

[Peanut]

I proposed this anendment because I believe that, after seeing how the new government has functioned in practice rather than in principle, strengthening the office of the Governor in this manner could very well be fundamental to safeguarding the position's institutional integrity in the future.

Regarding the Councillor's amendment, I believe that three-fifths is a bit low--would two-thirds be a good compromise? However, "indefinite period" as worded is, well, downright absurd. 2.7 is alright as it stands right now, I believe.

[Former President tack50]

I will reiterate my objection to the amendment in its latest form

Amendment L 2:56 by S019 to LC 2.29 The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. This bil shall be titled "Reforming the Office of the Governor Act

2. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum veto the bill. The Council may then override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

3. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

4. Article I of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by the regional justice a court. not exceeding eighteen months.


5. Article II of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows

7. The chancellor governor shall lead a Cabinet that may be comprised of a Minister of Internal Affairs, a Minister of Justice, and a Minister of Elections appointed by the chancellor nominated by the Governor, and confirmed with 3/5 of the vote of the Council . . . The chancellor governor shall have the power to create additional executive offices with the approval of two thirds four-fifths of the Council.

Sponsor feedback: Hostile
Status: 24 hours for debate of the amendment

[Former President tack50]

Councillors, a vote is now open on the following amendment:

Amendment L 2:56 by S019 to LC 2.29 The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment

1. This bil shall be titled "Reforming the Office of the Governor Act

2. The Lincoln constitution shall be amended as follows:

Every bill passed by the Council, before it becomes law, shall first be sent to the governor. If he approves of it, he should sign it and it will become law; but if he disapproves he may refer the bill to a general referendum veto the bill. The Council may then override the reference of the governor by a majority three-fifths vote of all elected MCs. If the governor fails to take any action on a bill within 120 hours of its passage, it shall become law.

3. This Amendment shall go into immediate effect once approved by the people of Lincoln.

4. Article I of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows:

7. The Council may, by a four fifths three-fifths vote of its members, remove the governor of crimes for gross negligence high crimes, misdemeanors, or other criminal activities; and they so removed shall be ineligible to any office under this Region for an indefinite period that shall be decided by the regional justice a court. not exceeding eighteen months.


5. Article II of the Lincoln Constitution shall be amended as follows

7. The chancellor governor shall lead a Cabinet that may be comprised of a Minister of Internal Affairs, a Minister of Justice, and a Minister of Elections appointed by the chancellor nominated by the Governor, and confirmed with 3/5 of the vote of the Council . . . The chancellor governor shall have the power to create additional executive offices with the approval of two thirds four-fifths of the Council.

Please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain
This vote shall last for 24 hours or until all Councillors have voted

[S019]

Aye, this amendment is a moderate proposal, which gives some power to the governor, but also some additional powers to the Council

[Former President tack50]

Nay.

Having impeachment at 3/5 is a dealbreaker and I don't really like changing those rules. Also I don't think we should be taking away powers from the Chancellor.

[Zaybay]

NAY

[Pyro]

Nay

[lfromnj]

Nay.

[Adam Griffin]

Abstain

[Former President tack50]

The vote on mendment L 2:56 by S019 to LC 2.29 The Make Peanut Great Again Amendment is now closed

Aye: 1 (SNJC)
Abstain: 1 (Griffin)
Nay: 5 (tack50, Zaybay, thr33, Pyro, lfromnj)
Not voting: 1 (Dipper Josh)

So the amendment is rejected

[Former President tack50]

Ok so where are we with this. For reference this only makes the threshold for veto override slightly higher, from 50%+1 to 3/5. Since we passed the Council reduction amendment, the underlying numbers would be:

3 member council: 2
5 member council: 3
7 member council: 5

So this only really affects 7 member councils.

[Former President tack50]

This won't really do much, but it won't also hurt the region. I do wonder whether it is necessary or not and whether we should get rid of one of a few things that make the region unique.

I will also add that in the only veto override vote we have had, most councillors flipped their position. The Gun Control bill passed the council 4-2-2, but the veto override failed 1-2-4.

There is also a psychological element to vetoing, plus Councillors may be inclined not to override in order to not take the decision away from the people (it is a "send to referendum" veto after all, not an absolute one)

[Peanut]

Seeing the amendment failed, would the Councillors like to have a final vote on this? I'd like to have the referendum before the 3 specials.