European Militaries

[KEmperor]

European militaries spend a tremendous amount on bureaucracy and personnel and very little on material, leaving them with minimal war-fighting capabilities.

Thoughts?

[opebo]

They treat them as porkbarrel.  They don't actually need real militaries as they're dependent on us.

[The Dowager Mod]

as long as the EU is running fairly smoothly it's no biggie.
if some nationalist nut job took over say russia and started something it could be dicey.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Finnish Defence Forces are cool!

http://www.mil.fi/english/

[Gustaf]

The UK is the only European nation with an independent military capacity, I believe.

[Huckleberry Finn]

The UK is the only European nation with an independent military capacity, I believe.

I think that France has it too. And Russia of course, if we consider it as European state.

But Finnish forces are coolest!

[NewFreedom]

European militaries spend a tremendous amount on bureaucracy and personnel and very little on material, leaving them with minimal war-fighting capabilities.

Thoughts?

Bureaucracy is a general problem, in EU and Germany both (and is a pain to work through if you actually need something).
But then, EUROPEAN military is just evolving, and fed by an institution that is stuck on bureaucracy itself.
So, I hope it will eventually be replaced by some more effective system (or, ideally, not be needed anymoe.. though my hopes there are VEEEEERY slim).

[angus]

The UK is the only European nation with an independent military capacity, I believe.

yes I think France does.  In fact, France spends a respectable 3+% of its GDP on defense.  Very rare in that part of the world.  

I don't think they want any part of our troubles in Iraq.  Actually, it is in our best interest to continue with the greatest military and economic might in the world, as it lets us call the shots.  European Empires have pretty much fallen, and ours in advanced decay.  The question is not whether China will be the next superpower, but how soon they become the next military and economic superpower.  Don't lament the white man, he had a pretty good six hundred-year run, right?  "Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it.  For you the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for thee."

[M]

The Turks too. Other than that, just France (mostly in order to defend there interests in Africa, yes, without UNSC resolutions), the UK and, of course, Russia.

[angus]

The Turks too. Other than that, just France (mostly in order to defend there interests in Africa, yes, without UNSC resolutions), the UK and, of course, Russia.

but only a small sliver of Turkey is in Europe.  It's largely an asian country.  And even though most russians live west of the Ural Mountains, it's forces would be better utilized in its Asian part against the growing Chinese superpower.  So we're really left with England and France being the only two respectably bellicose european powers (I reserve the term 'empire' for the pre-Dien Bien Phu glory days.)

[Gustaf]

I think France isn't really...but I could be wrong, I read this in The Economist or some other paper like that, a year ago or so.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Isn't UK military fairly dependent on US support? (satellite reconnaissance etc.)

A main purpose of militaries of small countries is to defend own territory with NATO allies (or without support in cases of neural countries like Sweden, Finland, Austria and Switzerland) There is no need for similar independent global capacity like in cases of great powers.