SENATE BILL: Double Posting Leniency Resolution (At Final Vote)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It does not —it brings back the possibility of it, but (a) if we aren't willing to risk Congress making a mistake, what is even the point of this amendment? and (b) including an undefined, unenforceable offense in the Constitution (even, nay especially in a clause removing it from existence) is pretty pointless.

No, the prohibition is still in the statute, we just can't enforce it anymore because BK vs Rpryor. If we modify the constitution to make BK v Rpryor irrelevant without protecting campaigning, the prohibition comes back automatically because we never did remove it from the statute.

Wait, does a provision struck down as constitutional automatically become active again if the constitution is changed? I thought it would need to be passed again?

In rl, the provision comes back automatically. That's why some 20 states would instantly have abortion bans if Roe was overturned, even though such provisions have been struck down by district courts and the like. The court does not change the statute itself, but the ability to enforce a given portion of it.

To my knowledge Atlasia is no different here.

I would support establishing standards for invalidation of ballots for campaigning in the ballot box as opposed to removing said statute.

If we can reach agreement on a definition that is fine. The old prohibition basically left it up to the SOFE, and different SOFEs had different definitions.

I am a reasonable guy generally.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Since this is going back to a resolution we can insert a bill into it along with the Constitutional amendment portion, as long Jimmy knows to split properly when it passes both chambers (Bill half would go to Adam, the amendment to the regions).

I did with last year twice.



Also that reminds me, if this amendment passes we need an a Constitutional Amendment explanation section.

[Former President tack50]

So, are we going to bring back the ban on campaigning on the voting booth after all? (or more precisely, leaving it up to the statute)

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I withdraw my opposition to the Amendment and look forward to crafting a bill.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

So, are we going to bring back the ban on campaigning on the voting booth after all? (or more precisely, leaving it up to the statute)

We will be figuring out a modification to the statute so that SOFEs cannot bend it to suit their own partisan purposes, but in some form yes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment S19:03 has been adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SENATE RESOLUTION

To amend the Constitution to allow for limited Congressional input on vote invalidation, specifically with regards to double posting

Be it Resolved in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Double Posting Leniency Resolution

Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution is Amended as follows:

The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except with regard to persons whose accounts is fewer than 168 hours old, as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, or in consequence of failing failure to meet such requirements for frequent posting, or term of residency, or the construction and revision of ballots as may be established by law; but no ballot shall be counted as valid that should list the candidates for office in a script other than the Latin alphabet, or that has been edited more than twenty minutes after its posting in the voting booth. All posts made in the voting booth shall be considered as ballots, and no citizen shall cast multiple ballots in any one election during the period the voting booth is open, upon penalty of the invalidation of their vote. Congress shall have power to make all needful rules governing the resolution of duplicate ballots and such other controversies as may arise, except as otherwise limited by this Constitution.

This text amends Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution to allow for greater congressional authority into the regulations concerning voter invalidation, particularly with regards to the issue of posting multiple times in the voting booth. The amendment also cleans up some text issues and removes some of the explicit reasons why an amendment may be invalidated contained with the current constitutional text, likewise to facilitate said congressional authority.

People's Regional Senate
Pending

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SENATE RESOLUTION

To amend the Constitution to allow for limited Congressional input on vote invalidation, specifically with regards to double posting

Be it Resolved in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Double Posting Leniency Resolution

Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution is Amended as follows:

The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except with regard to persons whose accounts is fewer than 168 hours old, as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, or in consequence of failing failure to meet such requirements for frequent posting, or term of residency, or the construction and revision of ballots as may be established by law; but no ballot shall be counted as valid that should list the candidates for office in a script other than the Latin alphabet, or that has been edited more than twenty minutes after its posting in the voting booth. All posts made in the voting booth shall be considered as ballots, and no citizen shall cast multiple ballots in any one election during the period the voting booth is open, upon penalty of the invalidation of their vote. Congress shall have power to make all needful rules governing the resolution of duplicate ballots and such other controversies as may arise, except as otherwise limited by this Constitution.

This text amends Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution to allow for greater congressional authority into the regulations concerning voter invalidation, particularly with regards to the issue of posting multiple times in the voting booth. The amendment also cleans up some text issues and removes some of the explicit reasons why an amendment may be invalidated contained with the current constitutional text, likewise to facilitate said congressional authority.

People's Regional Senate
Pending

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment is adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay so do we want to go ahead and pass this as is or try and attach a legislative piece into the resolution that only becomes operable if the Amendment is ratified?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Opening Bid:

Section 1 of the Federal Electoral Act shall be amended as follows:

Section 1: Votes
1. In their vote in the Elections to the House and the Presidency, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no numbering of the preferences is stated, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election, except a runoff election. Any voter may vote "None of the Above"; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. Persons who edit their post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void.
      a. All replies shall count as Ballots, even if later deleted, and no voter shall cast multiple ballots in an election, unless:
       I.  Evidence exists that the first ballot submitted by the citizen was deleted by a Moderator or Administrator of the Atlas Forum, or
     II. The second ballot submitted only lists contests not up for election within the thread it was posted on, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted, or
   III. The second ballot submitted is identical to the first ballot and was submitted within five minutes of the first ballot, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted. 
   a-2. In all other cases, including all cases of casting a third or subsequent ballot, the casting of multiple ballots results in the invalidation of all of the user's votes in that election.
    b. Campaigning shall also be prohibited in the voting booth and shall result in the disqualification of their one's vote. Campaigning shall be defined as an act that, to a neutral observer, would be perceived to be an attempt to convince other voters to vote for or against a particular candidate,  ticket, or referendum. The mere act of preferencing/selecting a candidate, ticket, or option shall not be considered campaigning, even if a comically low preference is given.

8. No ballot cast in a script other than the Latin Alphabet shall be counted as valid.

I'd also accept a version that eliminated the no campaigning rule entirely.

[Devout Centrist]

Submitting this on Wulfric's behalf:

Section 1 of the Federal Electoral Act shall be amended as follows:

Section 1: Votes
1. In their vote in the Elections to the House and the Presidency, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no numbering of the preferences is stated, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election, except a runoff election. Any voter may vote "None of the Above"; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. Persons who edit their post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void.
      a. All replies shall count as Ballots, even if later deleted, and no voter shall cast multiple ballots in an election, unless:
       I.  Evidence exists that the first ballot submitted by the citizen was deleted by a Moderator or Administrator of the Atlas Forum, or
     II. The second ballot submitted only lists contests not up for election within the thread it was posted on, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted, or
   III. The second ballot submitted is identical to the first ballot and was submitted within five minutes of the first ballot, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted. 
   a-2. In all other cases, including all cases of casting a third or subsequent ballot, the casting of multiple ballots results in the invalidation of all of the user's votes in that election.
    b. Campaigning shall also be prohibited in the voting booth and shall result in the disqualification of their one's vote. Campaigning shall be defined as an act that, to a neutral observer, would be perceived to be an attempt to convince other voters to vote for or against a particular candidate,  ticket, or referendum. The mere act of preferencing/selecting a candidate, ticket, or option shall not be considered campaigning, even if a comically low preference is given.

8. No ballot cast in a script other than the Latin Alphabet shall be counted as valid.

Okay so do we want to go ahead and pass this as is or try and attach a legislative piece into the resolution that only becomes operable if the Amendment is ratified?

I lean towards the latter route.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Section 1 of the Federal Electoral Act shall be amended as follows:

Section 1: Votes
1. In their vote in the Elections to the House and the Presidency, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no numbering of the preferences is stated, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election, except a runoff election. Any voter may vote "None of the Above"; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. Persons who edit their post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void.
      a. All replies shall count as Ballots, even if later deleted, and no voter shall cast multiple ballots in an election, unless:
       I.  Evidence exists that the first ballot submitted by the citizen was deleted by a Moderator or Administrator of the Atlas Forum, or
     II. The second ballot submitted only lists contests not up for election within the thread it was posted on, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted, or
   III. The second ballot submitted is identical to the first ballot and was submitted within five minutes of the first ballot, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted. 
   a-2. In all other cases, including all cases of casting a third or subsequent ballot, the casting of multiple ballots results in the invalidation of all of the user's votes in that election.
    b. Campaigning shall also be prohibited in the voting booth and shall result in the disqualification of their one's vote. Campaigning shall be defined as an act that, to a neutral observer, would be perceived to be an attempt to convince other voters to vote for or against a particular candidate,  ticket, or referendum. The mere act of preferencing/selecting a candidate, ticket, or option shall not be considered campaigning, even if a comically low preference is given.

8. No ballot cast in a script other than the Latin Alphabet shall be counted as valid.

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Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Former President tack50]

After today's events, I fully support bringing back the "no campaigning in the polling booth" rule.

I am not sure how this would work though as we have both a regular bill and a constitutional amendment mixed together. Yankee's earlier proposal of a resolution that only becomes active if the amendment is ratified is probably the way to go.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

idk where Yankee is but the previous amendment has been adopted. Will try to combine these things into one text.

SENATE RESOLUTION

To amend the Constitution to allow for limited Congressional input on vote invalidation, specifically with regards to double posting

Be it Resolved in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Double Posting Leniency Resolution

Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution is Amended as follows:

The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except with regard to persons whose accounts is fewer than 168 hours old, as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, or in consequence of failing failure to meet such requirements for frequent posting, or term of residency, or the construction and revision of ballots as may be established by law; but no ballot shall be counted as valid that should list the candidates for office in a script other than the Latin alphabet, or that has been edited more than twenty minutes after its posting in the voting booth. All posts made in the voting booth shall be considered as ballots, and no citizen shall cast multiple ballots in any one election during the period the voting booth is open, upon penalty of the invalidation of their vote. Congress shall have power to make all needful rules governing the resolution of duplicate ballots and such other controversies as may arise, except as otherwise limited by this Constitution.

This text amends Article I, Section IV of the Fourth Constitution to allow for greater congressional authority into the regulations concerning voter invalidation, particularly with regards to the issue of posting multiple times in the voting booth. The amendment also cleans up some text issues and removes some of the explicit reasons why an amendment may be invalidated contained with the current constitutional text, likewise to facilitate said congressional authority.

1. If the above amendment is ratified, the following legislative fix shall take effect:

Section 1 of the Federal Electoral Act shall be amended as follows:

Section 1: Votes
1. In their vote in the Elections to the House and the Presidency, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no numbering of the preferences is stated, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election, except a runoff election. Any voter may vote "None of the Above"; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. Persons who edit their post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void.
      a. All replies shall count as Ballots, even if later deleted, and no voter shall cast multiple ballots in an election, unless:
       I.  Evidence exists that the first ballot submitted by the citizen was deleted by a Moderator or Administrator of the Atlas Forum, or
     II. The second ballot submitted only lists contests not up for election within the thread it was posted on, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted, or
   III. The second ballot submitted is identical to the first ballot and was submitted within five minutes of the first ballot, in which case only the first ballot shall be counted.  
   a-2. In all other cases, including all cases of casting a third or subsequent ballot, the casting of multiple ballots results in the invalidation of all of the user's votes in that election.
    b. Campaigning shall also be prohibited in the voting booth and shall result in the disqualification of their one's vote. Campaigning shall be defined as an act that, to a neutral observer, would be perceived to be an attempt to convince other voters to vote for or against a particular candidate,  ticket, or referendum. The mere act of preferencing/selecting a candidate, ticket, or option shall not be considered campaigning, even if a comically low preference is given.

8. No ballot cast in a script other than the Latin Alphabet shall be counted as valid.

People's Regional Senate
Pending

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

At first glance, this looks good —I would also support a clause allowing voters to cast a second valid ballot if their first was incomplete (i.e. they voted for president but not for House, or vice-versa).

How are we defining "campaigning" in §7(b)?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

At first glance, this looks good —I would also support a clause allowing voters to cast a second valid ballot if their first was incomplete (i.e. they voted for president but not for House, or vice-versa).

How are we defining "campaigning" in §7(b)?

Exactly as the bolded text says....

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment S19:08 is adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

To Truman's point about the incomplete ballots, what is everyone's thoughts on that?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

To Truman's point about the incomplete ballots, what is everyone's thoughts on that?

As an election Graphic maker it would make my life harder as I'd lose my main way to make sure I've counted everyone - checking my total against the number of replies. Yeah, I can check somebody else's tracker, but I prefer not to or otherwise I may as well start calling myself WENN - Wulfric + Encke News Network. But it might also allow me to call the presidential election earlier if a bunch of people take advantage of the provision, which would be nice.

I understand the intention of such a provision would be to provide for people who inadvertently omitted a contest from their ballot, but we also have to understand that others could take advantage of it, such as those who are simply too lazy to read the list of offices up for election when they initially vote, or those who want to give a presidential or gubernatorial candidate "momentum" without losing the ability to vote strategically for legislative offices.

It's a tough call.

[Former President tack50]

Looking at Wulfric's concern and considering we already give a 20 minute period to edit ballots, I don't think it is necessary.

[Devout Centrist]

I don't know, perhaps an incomplete ballot could be edited after the 20 minute mark only in the races that the person did not vote in.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I don't know, perhaps an incomplete ballot could be edited after the 20 minute mark only in the races that the person did not vote in.

You just want to make my election coverage life harder don't you lol.

[Devout Centrist]

I don't know, perhaps an incomplete ballot could be edited after the 20 minute mark only in the races that the person did not vote in.

You just want to make my election coverage life harder don't you lol.

If someone undervotes, you could just wait 20 minutes to update the results

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

While I appreciate the concerns of the election updates I think if we were forced to choose our interest should be that of the voters. Not that I am necessarily endorsing the concept of allowing people to revote or edit for missed offices.