Universal health care

[John Dibble]

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

[Jake]

The Canadian trash can refrain from forcing his socialism (or maybe social democracy ) on us greedy capitalist Americans. Other country's can run themselves into the ground paying for a welfare state, America has shown itself to oppose it.

[Hatman 🍁]

The Canadian trash can refrain from forcing his socialism (or maybe social democracy ) on us greedy capitalist Americans. Other country's can run themselves into the ground paying for a welfare state, America has shown itself to oppose it.

I'm not forcing anything on you. I'll also have you know that Canada's economy is doing quite well, and I ask you to present evidence of Canada running itself into the ground paying for a "welfare state"

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

Because it is a right in Canada

[ATFFL]

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

Because it is a right in Canada

So if I go to Canada, can I get free health care?  Could be worth a car ride.

[Hatman 🍁]

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

Because it is a right in Canada

So if I go to Canada, can I get free health care?  Could be worth a car ride.

Once again, I am forced to elaborate. It is a right for Canadian citizens

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

[Max Power]

Tweed never said that we were talking about the U.S., so, technically, Earl is correct in saying it's a right protected by the Canadian Federal Government.

[John Dibble]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?
[/quote]

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

[Hatman 🍁]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

It benefits you, because you will need it when you get older. Plus, people who can't afford things, especially important things like health care are more likely to commit crimes. I for one like my low crime rate.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?
[/quote]

I have already changed my reasoning, Dibble. Try and follow a long. I know I may not be coherent all the time, but please help me out

[nclib]

Yes. The government should provide health care for all.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

Yes, it is miserable being healthy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?
[/quote]

Is this supposed to be an argument?

[Bono]

How is it your right to take money from other people to pay for your healthcare?

I did not plan to participate in this thread, but I just need to respond to this misleading comment.

Dibble, you already pay for other people's healthcare. What do you think one of the reasons is for such high health insurance premiums? On average, more than $1,000 of a person's annual health insurance premium  goes towards paying the health care costs of the uninsured/underinsured.  The current system is one of cost-shifting, where we all pay for those without health insurance and those who have no health insurance.

So, in essence, what you're complaining about already exists.

Does anyone force you to have health insurance?
Last time I checked, you can just pay it all out of your own pocket.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I support the idea of their being government provided healthcare free at the point of use; in the end it benefits the whole of society and can be good for social cohesion.
At the same time, it's a good idea to keep the private sector legal; the use of the private sector as a sort of dumping ground for minor operations is a great idea as it keeps costs down for the state provided service (and, if the system is funded by taxation, keeps taxes down as well).
I'm not a fan of insurance-based systems as a general rule...

[Emsworth]

The view that healthcare is a "right" is rather shocking. Sure, I agree that everyone has the right to obtain medical care--at his own cost. I would not agree that there is a right to take someone else's money to pay one's medical bills.

Pity that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects "life, liberty and security of the person," but not private property.

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

It benefits you, because you will need it when you get older. Plus, people who can't afford things, especially important things like health care are more likely to commit crimes. I for one like my low crime rate.

1. How do you know I'll need it when older? What if I simply take good care of myself and in my old age I still don't really need it much? And if I've saved the money that I would have paid in taxes in your system, I can simply use that in my old age if I need it. Why is it you feel compelled to force me, to remove my right to choose? Why do you think YOU know what's better for me than I do, huh? Why shouldn't I be able to choose?

2. Don't try to peg your low crime rate on that alone. I can mention numerous reasons for the difference, if you'd like.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?
[/quote]

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?
[/quote]

I have already changed my reasoning, Dibble. Try and follow a long. I know I may not be coherent all the time, but please help me out
[/quote]

In other words, your argument got blasted out of the water and you're trying to dodge that fact.

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

Yes, it is miserable being healthy.

I never asserted it was - I asserted my life would be better if less of my hard earned money wasn't taken away for me for something I didn't even benefit from. Repeat after me: READING COMPREHENSION.

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?

Is this supposed to be an argument?

It's supposed to be pointing out an inconsistency in the other argument. Once again: READING COMPREHENSION.

[MasterJedi]

Definitly not

[opebo]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

Maybe not in self centred-Libertarian land, but here in the land where people care about one another, it is.  Health care is my right, and I'll be damned if a greedy Libertarian will say otherwise.

How is it your right to take money from other people to pay for your healthcare?

Of course 'right' and 'wrong' don't enter into it, but it should be noted that these owners got their money through their position in the State-imposed social heirarchy.  So, taking a portion back is merely rectifying oppression, not 'taking' in any original sense.

[opebo]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

Yes, it is miserable being healthy.

Don't worry Dibble, everyone gets sick and dies, eventually.

[nlm]

I think it's worth looking at in an honest fashion given the health care issues facing this nation. I'd like to see the various mechanics behind such a system and what different options existed in the construction of such a system. I'd also like to see a number of cost and savings impact estimates for the federal and state governments, for the national economy, and for the individuals at differing income level, and how they change as the mechanics behind the system shift. If this is something that ultimately put more money in people’s and businesses pockets after the taxes have been paid for it, it's worth thinking about. I'm not saying that it would, but this is something that could benefit corporate America, small business American and the average American by reducing the payout in health care. It's also one of only a few things I can think of that would likely help with the real wage numbers that are doing so poorly right now and it would almost surely create a major stimulus for the economy as a whole. Something needs to be done about health care costs and the impact they are having on the individuals and businesses that comprise this nation. Is this it? I'm not sure, but I'd sure like to see the government seriously exploring it.

[David S]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

Maybe not in self centred-Libertarian land, but here in the land where people care about one another, it is.  Health care is my right, and I'll be damned if a greedy Libertarian will say otherwise.

I'll be sure to bill all my health bills to Canada.  If it s a right, you will surely pay for mine with a smile.

Get your own free health care. You don't pay into our system, so you don't get to reap the benefits.

People in Canada who don't make any money also don't pay into the system, but you seem to have no problem with paying for them.

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

Are food, clothing and housing rights too? How about cars? All of them are probably as important as healthcare.

[The Duke]

A national health care voucher that is large enough to pay for basic insurance should be available, funded by the government.

If you want to upgrade, you can do so out of pocket.

Having an insurance system where only those who are at risk of needing care buy insurance is insane.  Anyone who advocates this doesn't fully grasp the idea behind insurance.

Asking businesses to pick up the tab is equally insane.  Look at GM, you'll see that company provided benefits will never be as stable as they should be.  We have a masive welfare state provided by corporations to their employees, yet we pretend to have a free health care market.

Want to know why Europe, with all its torubles, is stil leconomically competitive with us?  One reason is they don't push companies to provide the benefits government should be providing.  They let companies, you know, make money instead.

Pretending that tax increases to fund this would cost the average person more than they pay anyway in premiums is willful delusion.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The Pew poll has 65% support, 30% oppose.

[Bono]

The Pew poll has 65% support, 30% oppose.

I bet it didn't mention numbers.