Universal health care

[John Dibble]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

[John Dibble]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

Maybe not in self centred-Libertarian land, but here in the land where people care about one another, it is.  Health care is my right, and I'll be damned if a greedy Libertarian will say otherwise.

How is it your right to take money from other people to pay for your healthcare?

[John Dibble]

How is it your right to take money from other people to pay for your healthcare?

I did not plan to participate in this thread, but I just need to respond to this misleading comment.

Dibble, you already pay for other people's healthcare. What do you think one of the reasons is for such high health insurance premiums? On average, more than $1,000 of a person's annual health insurance premium  goes towards paying the health care costs of the uninsured/underinsured.  The current system is one of cost-shifting, where we all pay for those without health insurance and those who have no health insurance.

So, in essence, what you're complaining about already exists.

That's only the case if I decide of my own free will to purchase health insurance - under your proposed system I'm forced to against my will whether I want to or not.

[John Dibble]

Hell no.

Health care is a right

No, it isn't.

Maybe not in self centred-Libertarian land, but here in the land where people care about one another, it is.  Health care is my right, and I'll be damned if a greedy Libertarian will say otherwise.

I'll be sure to bill all my health bills to Canada.  If it s a right, you will surely pay for mine with a smile.

Get your own free health care. You don't pay into our system, so you don't get to reap the benefits.

People in Canada who don't make any money also don't pay into the system, but you seem to have no problem with paying for them.

[John Dibble]

Ahh, going down that route are we? Let me choose a different path then, health care is a right in Canada. Clearly, it is not a right in the U.S. It's a right, it's my right as a Canadian citizen. And it should be a right for Americans. However, since it isn't, and since the U.S. is a different jurisdiction altogether, don't expect me to pay your health care costs.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?

[John Dibble]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?
[/quote]

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

It benefits you, because you will need it when you get older. Plus, people who can't afford things, especially important things like health care are more likely to commit crimes. I for one like my low crime rate.

1. How do you know I'll need it when older? What if I simply take good care of myself and in my old age I still don't really need it much? And if I've saved the money that I would have paid in taxes in your system, I can simply use that in my old age if I need it. Why is it you feel compelled to force me, to remove my right to choose? Why do you think YOU know what's better for me than I do, huh? Why shouldn't I be able to choose?

2. Don't try to peg your low crime rate on that alone. I can mention numerous reasons for the difference, if you'd like.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You asserted that Tredrick shouldn't get healthcare from your system because he doesn't pay into it - if a Canadian doesn't pay into the system, why should he receive healthcare from it?
[/quote]

Because it is a right in Canada
[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?
[/quote]

I have already changed my reasoning, Dibble. Try and follow a long. I know I may not be coherent all the time, but please help me out
[/quote]

In other words, your argument got blasted out of the water and you're trying to dodge that fact.

[John Dibble]

One must realize that when you work hard for your money, you have to use your common sense and realize that by paying taxes, you in effect make your life better. It means a higher standard of living for not just you, but for everyone. Of course, one must reach a balance, because high taxes put a damper on the economy. In Canada, I feel we have reached this balance.

Say I'm a healthy person who rarely has a need for healthcare - by being forced to pay the extra taxes, my life is worse because I'm paying for nothing that benefits me.

Yes, it is miserable being healthy.

I never asserted it was - I asserted my life would be better if less of my hard earned money wasn't taken away for me for something I didn't even benefit from. Repeat after me: READING COMPREHENSION.

You still haven't answered the question - you asserted that one person shouldn't get healthcare from Canada because he didn't pay into the system(not because he didn't live in Canada), so why does someone else who doesn't pay into the system deserve it simply because they happen to live in Canada?

Is this supposed to be an argument?

It's supposed to be pointing out an inconsistency in the other argument. Once again: READING COMPREHENSION.

[John Dibble]

I just think it's smug and cruel to deny access to health care.

Libertarians are not banning people from accessing healthcare. That would undoubtedly be cruel. Rather, we only believe that one is not entitled to steal another's money in order to obtain healthcare.

Not so, Emsworth.  How do you think the wealthier classes get the money with which they obtain health care?

They sell goods and services on a scale sufficient to get rich, of course. This requires the labor of others, but seeing as slavery is illegal they have to pay the laborers, so they aren't stealing anything.