Canada: Liberals promise full handgun ban

[Everett]

you are an idiot if you choose to live in a place where you have to fear death at the hands of your fellow citizens when walking at night.

Give me money and I will move somewhere else.

Also, consider this - for all of Earl's feminist bitchery, he seems to completely disregard the increased potential for single, young women to get attacked whilst outside at night in a big city. Maybe you have nothing to fear, but I certainly do.

Stricter gun laws ensure this will happen less. It happens so rarely here that if a woman gets attacked and killed it makes national news.

They might work for you, but not here. Even if we adopted fascist gun control laws, it would take an extremely long time to remove all guns from law-abiding residents. Confiscation of private property when not being used illegally would likely be challenged and stricken down on the basis of being unconstitutional.

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

[Everett]

Fascists.

And damn proud

I'd rather live under this "fascist" state  than live under the threat of being murdered by gangs and other vigalanties. I like my murder rate at once a month, thank you very much. 

Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither.

I personally like the freedom of going anywhere I wish without the threat of being gangraped by a bunch of Libertarians. Guns take away more freedom than they give.

That's great to hear. Now try living where I live and see if you can say the same. If I lived in a cute, comfy safe zone, then I could say the same, but I don't, and you can't tell me that it's because guns are legal here. Just look at San Francisco's recent gun ban.

Tell me, if you were me and lived in the neighbourhood that I do, would you be dumb enough to think "la la la I can walk around wherever I want and nothing will happen"? I'm not a dumbass. I don't want to get raped or attacked. If you seriously think that it would be better for me to end up dead or raped because oh maigawdliek guns r bad!!!! omgscary!!!1, then good for you, I guess, but I'm not an idiot.

It's pretty safe in my entire city, and pretty much most places in Canada except for Jane & Finch in Toronto and Hastings & Main in Vancouver. I think the correlation is obvious.

You avoided my questions completely. I am talking about my city, not yours.

It's not my fault you live in a gun toting land of lawlessness. You're the "freedom" loving Libertarian. Enjoy your "freedom" while I enjoy my "fascism".

It's not my fault you are still avoiding my questions completely.

[Hatman 🍁]

you are an idiot if you choose to live in a place where you have to fear death at the hands of your fellow citizens when walking at night.

Give me money and I will move somewhere else.

Also, consider this - for all of Earl's feminist bitchery, he seems to completely disregard the increased potential for single, young women to get attacked whilst outside at night in a big city. Maybe you have nothing to fear, but I certainly do.

Stricter gun laws ensure this will happen less. It happens so rarely here that if a woman gets attacked and killed it makes national news.

They might work for you, but not here. Even if we adopted fascist gun control laws, it would take an extremely long time to remove all guns from law-abiding residents. Confiscation of private property when not being used illegally would likely be challenged and stricken down on the basis of being unconstitutional.

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

Yes, it is true the U.S. has dug itself in a big hole on the gun issue, and I wouldn't know where to begin to save it. Arming more people is not the answer. But hey, that's what happens in Libertarian land. Everyone has guns, and that means more and more people attack eachother.

[Everett]

you are an idiot if you choose to live in a place where you have to fear death at the hands of your fellow citizens when walking at night.

Give me money and I will move somewhere else.

Also, consider this - for all of Earl's feminist bitchery, he seems to completely disregard the increased potential for single, young women to get attacked whilst outside at night in a big city. Maybe you have nothing to fear, but I certainly do.

Stricter gun laws ensure this will happen less. It happens so rarely here that if a woman gets attacked and killed it makes national news.

They might work for you, but not here. Even if we adopted fascist gun control laws, it would take an extremely long time to remove all guns from law-abiding residents. Confiscation of private property when not being used illegally would likely be challenged and stricken down on the basis of being unconstitutional.

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

Yes, it is true the U.S. has dug itself in a big hole on the gun issue, and I wouldn't know where to begin to save it. Arming more people is not the answer. But hey, that's what happens in Libertarian land. Everyone has guns, and that means more and more people attack eachother.

You did not answer my question.

TexasGurl is a Socialist, and she also owns a gun, I believe. Does that make her a Libertarian slimebag like you're trying to paint me as?

[CheeseWhiz]

I really can’t see how this makes anyone safer, since criminals don’t obey the law!

Also, criminals won't have to care about who they mug anymore, because no one could be concealing a handgun, they’re illegal!  Congrats Canada, you just made criminals jobs a whole lot easier!

[CheeseWhiz]

I really can’t see how this makes anyone safer, since criminals don’t obey the law!

Also, criminals won't have to care about who they mug anymore, because no one could be concealing a handgun, they’re illegal!  Congrats Canada, you just made criminals jobs a whole lot easier!

Exactly.

I was just about to say "Exactly" under your post when I saw this!

[Platypus]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

BTW Cheesewhiz, what would you prefer-no significant increase or decrease in gun related crimes (although there is a trend towards decrease) and a massive decrease in gun related deaths,  or the status quo? That's the aussie experience of gun control.

[Platypus]

I totally agree with Everett.  Let's say you ban guns in Los Angeles.  L.A. gangs will then become more determined to use ONLY guns now that they are illegal and crimes with guns will likely increase.

That's perfectly logical reasoning, for sure.

[Everett]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

I took martial arts for eight years. Explain how a 100-pound person is supposed to magically defeat a group of 180-pound attackers unarmed, please.

Like I said, give my mother money so that we can move.

[Platypus]

Have you ever been there? And would you care to answer my question?

I haven't, but I think you're looking at the problem very much from an "I'm right because the elephant said" position rather then one that wants the best for ourself, your nation and your fellow citizens.

Everett-I believe you can buy houses in Kansas for $30,000 USD. Re:defending. As I said, that might be a perfectly reasonable concern for you-where you live. But it isn't an argument of importance in Australia-or Canada-and one of the greatest things about the land of the free is that you are free to leave it. Or move within it. Either way, that is a legitimate concern for you only because it is your choice (or your parent's) to live in an area where it is an argument of importance in the gun control debate.

[Everett]

I believe you can buy houses in Kansas for $30,000 USD.

Why should I have to move to Kansas? Honestly, your suggestion is ridiculous. Having a gun for self-defence is less troublesome than moving to Kansas.

The big problems are the differences between American and Canadian (and Australian, I guess) cultures; what a lot of Canadians fail to understand is that their gun control laws will not necessarily work with America. Ban guns, ban everything, why don't we ban knives while we're at it? People will get guns from Mexico next, or outside the States, and if you seriously expect that potential criminals will surrender their guns, you're insane.

[Emsworth]

His post also stated that the rate of homicides was nearly cut in half.

There were only about eighty homicides to begin with, according to the quotation in Hugh's post. The number was reduced to about fifty over ten years. These data do not really allow one to draw any broad conclusions.

[CheeseWhiz]

Hughie, America has about five times the population of Canada and Australia combined.

[John Dibble]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

1. She doesn't have to be assaulted by someone with a gun in order to be raped - a 200 pound man with a knife or even his bare hands could possibly do it.

2. Martial arts may be a good idea, but it is unrealistic to expect someone to take the years of time it takes to become proficient enough to defend oneself from a larger, stronger opponent.

3. You tell her to move, but moving costs money. It's not an option for many people.

4. You gun control people need to stop acting like guns are the only reason for the different crime rates. Switzerland gives out machine guns for crying out loud, yet they've got the lowest crime in the world - but the reason isn't more guns, it's differences in demographics, economics, and other things, just like it is in the US. Guns are only part of the equation, and their availability can both deter and increase crime given different circumstances.


As to the article, it states that a big problem is that many of the handguns are being smuggled in from the US - banning handguns isn't going to stop an already illegal practice. In fact, it'll just make the black market and the ill effects associated with it even worse.

[CheeseWhiz]

Do you people really trust the government to protect you from thugs?  I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the matter into my own hands that wait and hope the police show up.  I'd like to be responsible for myself and my own safety than let the government take control of my life.

Exactly!

Also, who gave the Government the job of solving the world’s problems?

[Joe Republic]

Congrats Canada, you just made criminals jobs a whole lot easier!

This is a campaign pledge.  It hasn't happened yet.

[Platypus]

Emsworth-look at total deaths. Look at 1995 (we'll exclude 1996 because of Port Arthur) then look at 1997. Yes, figures were lower then america to begin with, but obviously still too high. Now, there has been a significant reduction. I hope it is a continuing trend; there is still a lot to happen.

E,CW-rather then say 'only 80' or 'only 11', at least attempt to recognise that Australia's population is 20 million-about a 15th of the USA's.

Dibble-Australia is different from America, but not all that much. The main difference in this debate is that Americans were brainwashed to believe they needed guns, and now, they actually do! Very clever ploy by the gun makers. Guns aren't the only weapon of killing, but Australia's general homicide rate, not just that for guns, has dropped significantly over the past ten years, also.

[CheeseWhiz]

Congrats Canada, you just made criminals jobs a whole lot easier!

This is a campaign pledge.  It hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, I knew that, I just wasn’t thinking at the time of the post, sorry

[Gabu]

Hughie, America has about five times the population of Canada and Australia combined.

America's per capita handgun rate (i.e., the population is taken into account) is over five times what Canada's is, over nine times what Australia's is, and over 27 times what the UK's is, the last being a place where handguns are fully banned, to my knowledge.

If there's a direct correlation between the restriction of handguns and handgun-related crime, I'm not seeing it.  It looks more like an inverse correlation to me.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

1. She doesn't have to be assaulted by someone with a gun in order to be raped - a 200 pound man with a knife or even his bare hands could possibly do it.

2. Martial arts may be a good idea, but it is unrealistic to expect someone to take the years of time it takes to become proficient enough to defend oneself from a larger, stronger opponent.

3. You tell her to move, but moving costs money. It's not an option for many people.

4. You gun control people need to stop acting like guns are the only reason for the different crime rates. Switzerland gives out machine guns for crying out loud, yet they've got the lowest crime in the world - but the reason isn't more guns, it's differences in demographics, economics, and other things, just like it is in the US. Guns are only part of the equation, and their availability can both deter and increase crime given different circumstances.


As to the article, it states that a big problem is that many of the handguns are being smuggled in from the US - banning handguns isn't going to stop an already illegal practice. In fact, it'll just make the black market and the ill effects associated with it even worse.

You should remember that Hugh is a left wing nut case who recognizes that a totalitarian government isn't feasible as long as the people is armed (which is why he favors banning private possession of firearms).

Hugh tends to make a lot of assertions, which when you call him on them, are unsubstantiated.

I'd like to see the $30.000 homes in Kansas to which he referred (to cite one example from him on this thread).

[Platypus]

http://homesalez.foreclosure.com/property?propertyId=1580355

[Hatman 🍁]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

1. She doesn't have to be assaulted by someone with a gun in order to be raped - a 200 pound man with a knife or even his bare hands could possibly do it.

2. Martial arts may be a good idea, but it is unrealistic to expect someone to take the years of time it takes to become proficient enough to defend oneself from a larger, stronger opponent.

3. You tell her to move, but moving costs money. It's not an option for many people.

4. You gun control people need to stop acting like guns are the only reason for the different crime rates. Switzerland gives out machine guns for crying out loud, yet they've got the lowest crime in the world - but the reason isn't more guns, it's differences in demographics, economics, and other things, just like it is in the US. Guns are only part of the equation, and their availability can both deter and increase crime given different circumstances.


As to the article, it states that a big problem is that many of the handguns are being smuggled in from the US - banning handguns isn't going to stop an already illegal practice. In fact, it'll just make the black market and the ill effects associated with it even worse.

You should remember that Hugh is a left wing nut case who recognizes that a totalitarian government isn't feasible as long as the people is armed (which is why he favors banning private possession of firearms).

Hugh tends to make a lot of assertions, which when you call him on them, are unsubstantiated.

I'd like to see the $30.000 homes in Kansas to which he referred (to cite one example from him on this thread).

Oh please, America wouldn't know a totalitarian government if it shot it in the face. And even if it did, there would be no revolution. America has lost its spirit.

[2952-0-0]

Even more of a reason to vote against the Liberals. This move is grandstanding designed to lure urban voters to thinking the Liberals know they have a plan, when in fact they don't.

[Hatman 🍁]

Even more of a reason to vote against the Liberals. This move is grandstanding designed to lure urban voters to thinking the Liberals know they have a plan, when in fact they don't.

What's funny is they don't need the urban vote.

[Brandon H]

Tell me, if someone on the street attacked me, what would you want me to do? Shoot the person, or allow myself to get hurt or killed?

America put itself in a position where that is a possibility far greater then in Canada or Australia. Both countries have taken measures to ensure we don't reach American levels of gun deaths and gun related crimes. I'm not saying it couldn't happen down here, but where in America it is a major consideration, in Australia it is a not at all a concern of the general populace.

Get Taekwondo lessons or something, or move

I took martial arts for eight years. Explain how a 100-pound person is supposed to magically defeat a group of 180-pound attackers unarmed, please.

Like I said, give my mother money so that we can move.

You can catch the bullets with your teeth, and then your attackers will take turns attacking one at a time. Each will only know 2 or 3 different ways of attack and will be very predicable. Then suddenly when they realized they are no match for you, they will take off running.