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September 15, 2019, 03:24:47 pm
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  Hong Kong Democracy activists protest against Extradition Bill
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Author Topic: Hong Kong Democracy activists protest against Extradition Bill  (Read 1404 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2019, 05:18:51 pm »

The British should have given Hong Kong it's independence instead of handing it over to China.

PRC would just have invaded.
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BundouYMB
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« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2019, 06:31:27 pm »

The British should have given Hong Kong it's independence instead of handing it over to China.

PRC would just have invaded.

The body count would have been immense and I cannot even imagine how bad the international fallout for the British would have been.
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jaichind
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2019, 11:39:47 am »

It is clear that during the airport shutdowns the protesters went to far as their actions was pretty much racketeering. Even factions of the mostly leaderless protesters  realized this  and started to apologize for their actions and not risk losing the popular support they do have.

Of course the core of the issue is the the popular support for these protesters are not about abstract ideas like "democracy" or "autonomy".  I agree that the protesters themselves genuinely believe in those ideals but the popular support they have, which might now start to ebb, could not give a hoot about these ideals.  The root issue is the surge in housing prices are pushing a good part of the youth and even now middle age population out of a solid middle class lifestyle. 

The segment of the population that are frustrated about this and is the core support base for the protesters direct their anger at the CCP.  To some extend they are right.  The HK government very conservative approach of zoning limits the amount of land at any point in time to be available for development for residential and commercial building.  While this pre-dates 1997 the fact is that landed big capital which is part of the the current pro-CCP bloc in HK (Chinese ultra-nationalists like myself, big capital, and pro-CCP trade unions) exerts a large influence on HK government policy to keep land prices high.  The CCP already have to manage a unwieldy and unstable Establishment bloc (the Chinese ultra-nationalists Right like myself have links to the KMT and were enemies of the pro-CCP trade unions until the 1990s) so the interests of big capital has to be accommodated creating the current situation.

To some extent the CCP is trapped.  The need HK big capital to maintain their indirect rule in HK and to throw them under the bus might not attract more supporters only serve to blow up your own coalition.  The CCP situation is similar to what the KMT experienced in their Civil War with the CCP in Northern Rural China.  One of the many reasons why we ROC were defeated by the CCP bandits where they they won the issue of land reform, especially in places like Shandong which ROC armed forces and PLA traded positions repeatedly.    When the PLA took over a county, they would drive out land owners and redistribute the land to peasants.  When the ROC armed forces retook the county the landowners who were part of the KMT coalition expected their land to be returned.  The KMT knew doing this would alienate the landless peasants but the landowner base was powerful linked to the KMT at the hip and KMT betraying them would disrupt the KMT power structure and it was not clear if the KMT would actually win enough peasant support to replace the loss of such a power structure.    Ironically the KMT rule on Taiwan Province which was occupied by Japan until 1945 land reform was easier since the KMT had no links to the local landed interest.   Some Taiwan Province land owners after land reform because urban based small to medium capital and backed the KMT while other stayed on the land and continued their opposition to the KMT and became one of the pillars of the Taiwan Right Independence.   The CCP is now in a similar situation as the KMT in 1947 Shandong Province.

Ironically the protests will most likely create such an economic disruption to create an economic recession in HK which would serve to lower land prices and indirectly give some short term relief to the core issue of high land prices.
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jaichind
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2019, 04:16:27 pm »

ROC pro-Green pollster 品觀點 (Pinview) also shows an ebb in more support for the HK protesters after the airport protests and confrontation.

Question: Should the government (ROC government) take action to further support the HK protesters.
Yes/No 40.9/43.1


 
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