SB 19-41: G.I. Joe Act (Debating)

[Esteemed Jimmy]

G.I. JOE ACT

HOUSE BILL

SECTION I: NAME
a. This law shall be known as the G.I. Joe Act

SECTION II: WEAPONS PROGRAMS ELIMINATIONS
a. The following military weapons programs shall be eliminated:
   1. Eliminate C-130 Avionics Modernization Program;
   2. Eliminate C-17 Transport Aircraft Program;
   3. Eliminate C-27 Joint Cargo Aircraft Program;
   4. Eliminate EA-18G Growler Program;
   5. Eliminate EP-X Aircraft Program;
   6. Eliminate Far-Term Sea-Based Terminal Defense Program ;
   7. Eliminate Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Program;
   8. Eliminate Joint Strike Fighter Program;
   9. Eliminate JLENS blimp Program;
   10. Eliminate Littoral Combat Ship Program;
   11. Eliminate MEADS Program;
   12. Eliminate SM-3 II-B Missile Defense System Program;
   13. Eliminate TALOS Project;
   14. Eliminate Third Generation Infrared Surveillance Program;
   15. Eliminate Trident II Missile Program;
   16. Eliminate V-22 Osprey Program (Continue to use MH-60, H-92, CH-53)
b. The following military weapons shall be retired from service:
   1. HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter
   2. U-2 Spy Plane
   3. EP-3 Aires Aircraft
   4. Bell TH-67 Jet Ranger Helicopter
   5. Bell OH-58 Kiowa Helicopter
   6. A-10 Thunderbolt Attack Aircraft
   7. B-2 Spirit Bomber
   8. B-52 Stratofortress Bomber
c. A moratorium is hereby imposed on the purchase of the following until 2023:
   1. M-1 Abrams battle tanks
   2. San Antonio Class Amphibious Assault Ships
   3. Air Force Long Range Bomber research
d. Purchases of Operational Support Aircraft shall be reduced by 25%;
e. The naval fleet of small surface combat ships shall be reduced from 42 to 30. The ships to be retired shall be sold to foreign allies.
f. Funding for the Cruiser Modification Program shall be reduced by 30%

SECTION III: OTHER SAVINGS
a. No federal funding allocated for the Department of State shall be expended on counter-narcotics operations.
b. The National Guard shall be prohibited from enforcing drug laws on Atlasian soil.
c. The National Guard Agricultural Development Team program is hereby eliminated.
d. The High Risk Personnel Program for off-base housing is hereby eliminated.
e. Military bands shall be permitted to sell recordings of their music
f. Federal payments to private air carriers for transportation of military personnel shall not exceed those levels guaranteed in the contracted for agreement.

SECTION IV: TIME
a. This act shall take effect beginning in FY 2020.

House of Representatives
Passed in the House of Representatives 9-0-0-0

X YE

Sponsor: Devout Centrist
Senate Designation: SB 19-41

[Esteemed Jimmy]

This needs a sponsor.

[Devout Centrist]

I’ll sponsor

[Esteemed Jimmy]

I’ll sponsor

Senators have 24 hours for objections.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Devout Centrist is now recognized as the sponsor.

[Devout Centrist]

This bill would eliminate a number of programs under the administration of the Department of Defense. I have several concerns with this bill, but I have an amendment that should sort those out quickly.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Anyone have anything else to add?

[Devout Centrist]

Proposing an amendment:

G.I. JOE ACT

HOUSE BILL

SECTION I: NAME
a. This law shall be known as the G.I. Joe Act

SECTION II: WEAPONS PROGRAMS ELIMINATIONS
a. The following military weapons programs shall be eliminated:
   1. Eliminate B61 Nuclear Bomb Life Extension Program;
   2. Eliminate B83 Nuclear program excepting 100 for use against asteroids;
   3. Eliminate C-130 Avionics Modernization Program;
   4. Eliminate C-17 Transport Aircraft Program;
   5. Eliminate C-27 Joint Cargo Aircraft Program;
   6. Eliminate EA-18G Growler Program;
   7. Eliminate EP-X Aircraft Program;
   8. Eliminate Far-Term Sea-Based Terminal Defense Program ;
   9. Eliminate Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Program;
   10. Eliminate Joint Strike Fighter Program;
   11. Eliminate JLENS blimp Program;
   12. Eliminate Littoral Combat Ship Program;
   13. Eliminate MEADS Program;
   14. Eliminate SM-3 II-B Missile Defense System Program;
   15. Eliminate TALOS Project;
   16. Eliminate Third Generation Infrared Surveillance Program;
   17. Eliminate Trident II Missile Program;
   18. Eliminate V-22 Osprey Program (Continue to use MH-60, H-92, CH-53)
b. The following military weapons shall be retired from service:
   1. HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter
   2. U-2 Spy Plane
   3. EP-3 Aires Aircraft
   4. Bell TH-67 Jet Ranger Helicopter
   5. Bell OH-58 Kiowa Helicopter
   6. A-10 Thunderbolt Attack Aircraft
   7. B-2 Spirit Bomber
   8. B-52 Stratofortress Bomber
c. A moratorium is hereby imposed on the purchase of the following until 2023:
   1. M-1 Abrams battle tanks
   2. San Antonio Class Amphibious Assault Ships
   3. Air Force Long Range Bomber research
d. Purchases of Operational Support Aircraft shall be reduced by 25%;
e. The naval fleet of small surface combat ships shall be reduced from 42 to 30. The ships to be retired shall be sold to foreign allies.
f. Funding for the Cruiser Modification Program shall be reduced by 30%

SECTION III: OTHER SAVINGS
a. No federal funding allocated for the Department of State shall be expended on counter-narcotics operations.
b. The National Guard shall be prohibited from enforcing drug laws on Atlasian soil.
c. The National Guard Agricultural Development Team program is hereby eliminated.
d. The High Risk Personnel Program for off-base housing is hereby eliminated.
e. Housing Allowances for off-base commuters is hereby reduced by 10%.
f.  Funding for demonstrations by the Blue Angels Demonstration Squad, the 13th Air Force Air Expeditionary Group, and the 109th National Guard Airlift Wing is hereby reduced by 25%
g. Funding for military musical bands is hereby reduced 50%
h. Funding for the Marine Band Newsletter Notes is hereby eliminated.
i. e. Military bands shall be permitted to sell recordings of their music

j. Federal payments to private air carriers for transportation of military personnel shall not exceed those levels guaranteed in the contracted for agreement.

SECTION IV: TIME
a. This act shall take effect beginning in FY 2020.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

With no objections the bill now stands as:

G.I. JOE ACT

HOUSE BILL

SECTION I: NAME
a. This law shall be known as the G.I. Joe Act

SECTION II: WEAPONS PROGRAMS ELIMINATIONS
a. The following military weapons programs shall be eliminated:
   1. Eliminate B61 Nuclear Bomb Life Extension Program;
   2. Eliminate B83 Nuclear program excepting 100 for use against asteroids;
   3. Eliminate C-130 Avionics Modernization Program;
   4. Eliminate C-17 Transport Aircraft Program;
   5. Eliminate C-27 Joint Cargo Aircraft Program;
   6. Eliminate EA-18G Growler Program;
   7. Eliminate EP-X Aircraft Program;
   8. Eliminate Far-Term Sea-Based Terminal Defense Program ;
   9. Eliminate Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Program;
   10. Eliminate Joint Strike Fighter Program;
   11. Eliminate JLENS blimp Program;
   12. Eliminate Littoral Combat Ship Program;
   13. Eliminate MEADS Program;
   14. Eliminate SM-3 II-B Missile Defense System Program;
   15. Eliminate TALOS Project;
   16. Eliminate Third Generation Infrared Surveillance Program;
   17. Eliminate Trident II Missile Program;
   18. Eliminate V-22 Osprey Program (Continue to use MH-60, H-92, CH-53)
b. The following military weapons shall be retired from service:
   1. HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter
   2. U-2 Spy Plane
   3. EP-3 Aires Aircraft
   4. Bell TH-67 Jet Ranger Helicopter
   5. Bell OH-58 Kiowa Helicopter
   6. A-10 Thunderbolt Attack Aircraft
   7. B-2 Spirit Bomber
   8. B-52 Stratofortress Bomber
c. A moratorium is hereby imposed on the purchase of the following until 2023:
   1. M-1 Abrams battle tanks
   2. San Antonio Class Amphibious Assault Ships
   3. Air Force Long Range Bomber research
d. Purchases of Operational Support Aircraft shall be reduced by 25%;
e. The naval fleet of small surface combat ships shall be reduced from 42 to 30. The ships to be retired shall be sold to foreign allies.
f. Funding for the Cruiser Modification Program shall be reduced by 30%

SECTION III: OTHER SAVINGS
a. No federal funding allocated for the Department of State shall be expended on counter-narcotics operations.
b. The National Guard shall be prohibited from enforcing drug laws on Atlasian soil.
c. The National Guard Agricultural Development Team program is hereby eliminated.
d. The High Risk Personnel Program for off-base housing is hereby eliminated.
e. Military bands shall be permitted to sell recordings of their music
f. Federal payments to private air carriers for transportation of military personnel shall not exceed those levels guaranteed in the contracted for agreement.

SECTION IV: TIME
a. This act shall take effect beginning in FY 2020.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

G.I. JOE ACT

HOUSE BILL

SECTION I: NAME
a. This law shall be known as the G.I. Joe Act

SECTION II: WEAPONS PROGRAMS ELIMINATIONS
a. The following military weapons programs shall be eliminated:
   1. Eliminate B61 Nuclear Bomb Life Extension Program;
   2. Eliminate B83 Nuclear program excepting 100 for use against asteroids;
   3. Eliminate C-130 Avionics Modernization Program;
   4. Eliminate C-17 Transport Aircraft Program;
   5. Eliminate C-27 Joint Cargo Aircraft Program;
   6. Eliminate EA-18G Growler Program;
   7. Eliminate EP-X Aircraft Program;
   8. Eliminate Far-Term Sea-Based Terminal Defense Program ;
   9. Eliminate Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Program;
   10. Eliminate Joint Strike Fighter Program;
   11. Eliminate JLENS blimp Program;
   12. Eliminate Littoral Combat Ship Program;
   13. Eliminate MEADS Program;
14. Eliminate SM-3 II-B Missile Defense System Program;
   15. Eliminate TALOS Project;
   16. Eliminate Third Generation Infrared Surveillance Program;
   17. Eliminate Trident II Missile Program;
   18. Eliminate V-22 Osprey Program (Continue to use MH-60, H-92, CH-53)
b. The following military weapons shall be retired from service:
   1. HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter
   2. U-2 Spy Plane
   3. EP-3 Aires Aircraft
   4. Bell TH-67 Jet Ranger Helicopter
   5. Bell OH-58 Kiowa Helicopter
   6. A-10 Thunderbolt Attack Aircraft
   7. B-2 Spirit Bomber
   8. B-52 Stratofortress Bomber
c. A moratorium is hereby imposed on the purchase of the following until 2023:
   1. M-1 Abrams battle tanks
   2. San Antonio Class Amphibious Assault Ships
   3. Air Force Long Range Bomber research
d. Purchases of Operational Support Aircraft shall be reduced by 25%;
e. The naval fleet of small surface combat ships shall be reduced from 42 to 30. The ships to be retired shall be sold to foreign allies.
f. Funding for the Cruiser Modification Program shall be reduced by 30%

SECTION III: OTHER SAVINGS
a. No federal funding allocated for the Department of State shall be expended on counter-narcotics operations.
b. The National Guard shall be prohibited from enforcing drug laws on Atlasian soil.
c. The National Guard Agricultural Development Team program is hereby eliminated.
d. The High Risk Personnel Program for off-base housing is hereby eliminated.
e. Military bands shall be permitted to sell recordings of their music
f. Federal payments to private air carriers for transportation of military personnel shall not exceed those levels guaranteed in the contracted for agreement.

SECTION IV: TIME
a. This act shall take effect beginning in FY 2020.

[/quote]

I am offering the above amendment because while I am in favor of reducing the number of nuclear weapons on the planet, it is just that, a planet wide concern that requires multi-lateral treaties with follow up and verification to actually achieve the success that we want and need. I worry that unilateral disarmament would undermine such multi-lateral efforts and lead to geopolitical rivals being unwilling to cooperate in said reduction efforts, especially Russia and China.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also Section II.b Clause 7 was removed via amendment in the House yet it is still present in the text.

[Lumine]

Generally speaking I'm not a fan of the Atlasian version of defense cuts because they're often too deep and reckless, and tend to neglect to account for issues such as the fact that only a few months ago we were fighting a major war.

Having said that, I think the bill is actually workable and necessary if one accounts for the fact that many of these projects have been inefficiently, too costly when accounting for their usefulness, or have become obsolete despite having given a great service to the nation, so in that sense I think the targeting of the cuts has been responsible instead of indiscriminate and I'm grateful for that.

If it's not a problem - if the Senate doesn't mind my interruption - I do have concerns regarding:

B61 and B83 nuclear programs: There is a case to be made for reductions, but it would be reckless to outright get rid of both given they're still a relevant part of the nuclear arsenal and which, in B61's case, have been undergoing significant efforts to extend their life and accuracy which have already yielded some  positive results. If we must make such cuts - which would make far more sense as a part of a multilateral effort with other nuclear powers instead of a purely unilateral move on budgetary justifications - it would make sense to reduce/get rid of B83, but not (if my reading is correct) B61.

C-130 and C-17: Not sure if it truly makes sense to make these cuts, particularly in terms of the impact on our transport fleet (I have to assume losses were taken during the war).

Trident II: This one might make sense within a longer period of time, but if memory serves right they're nowhere near obsolete. Seems a bit premature to get rid of this one.

M-1 Abrams battle tanks: If a moratorium is to be placed, we should be aware of the potential risks. To suspend their purchases will likely mean production is ended, and it would come at a significant cost to re-start production of this model once the moratorium is over. There is a case to be made for the moratorium, but it will come at a future cost.

Additionally, if we are to reduce the small surface combat ships fleet, may I suggest the State Department and the Administration consider focusing sales to our allies in the East? China may be down after the war in Korea and their naval capabilities temporarily reduced, but it would be helpful to ensure allies such as the Philippines and both Koreas - I wonder if any progress has been made in reunification? I'd love to see the GM Team updating this -, as well as partners such as Vietnam (or even Cambodia now that the relationship is being restored) are relevant targets for the sale of these vessels as it would bring an additional benefit in strategic terms.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Trident II: This one might make sense within a longer period of time, but if memory serves right they're nowhere near obsolete. Seems a bit premature to get rid of this one.

Trident is the nuclear missile Harrods would sell!

(Couldn't resist )

[Esteemed Jimmy]

With no objections, the bill now stands as:

G.I. JOE ACT

HOUSE BILL

SECTION I: NAME
a. This law shall be known as the G.I. Joe Act

SECTION II: WEAPONS PROGRAMS ELIMINATIONS
a. The following military weapons programs shall be eliminated:
   1. Eliminate C-130 Avionics Modernization Program;
   2. Eliminate C-17 Transport Aircraft Program;
   3. Eliminate C-27 Joint Cargo Aircraft Program;
   4. Eliminate EA-18G Growler Program;
   5. Eliminate EP-X Aircraft Program;
   6. Eliminate Far-Term Sea-Based Terminal Defense Program ;
   7. Eliminate Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Program;
   8. Eliminate Joint Strike Fighter Program;
   9. Eliminate JLENS blimp Program;
   10. Eliminate Littoral Combat Ship Program;
   11. Eliminate MEADS Program;
   12. Eliminate SM-3 II-B Missile Defense System Program;
   13. Eliminate TALOS Project;
   14. Eliminate Third Generation Infrared Surveillance Program;
   15. Eliminate Trident II Missile Program;
   16. Eliminate V-22 Osprey Program (Continue to use MH-60, H-92, CH-53)
b. The following military weapons shall be retired from service:
   1. HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter
   2. U-2 Spy Plane
   3. EP-3 Aires Aircraft
   4. Bell TH-67 Jet Ranger Helicopter
   5. Bell OH-58 Kiowa Helicopter
   6. A-10 Thunderbolt Attack Aircraft
   7. B-2 Spirit Bomber
   8. B-52 Stratofortress Bomber
c. A moratorium is hereby imposed on the purchase of the following until 2023:
   1. M-1 Abrams battle tanks
   2. San Antonio Class Amphibious Assault Ships
   3. Air Force Long Range Bomber research
d. Purchases of Operational Support Aircraft shall be reduced by 25%;
e. The naval fleet of small surface combat ships shall be reduced from 42 to 30. The ships to be retired shall be sold to foreign allies.
f. Funding for the Cruiser Modification Program shall be reduced by 30%

SECTION III: OTHER SAVINGS
a. No federal funding allocated for the Department of State shall be expended on counter-narcotics operations.
b. The National Guard shall be prohibited from enforcing drug laws on Atlasian soil.
c. The National Guard Agricultural Development Team program is hereby eliminated.
d. The High Risk Personnel Program for off-base housing is hereby eliminated.
e. Military bands shall be permitted to sell recordings of their music
f. Federal payments to private air carriers for transportation of military personnel shall not exceed those levels guaranteed in the contracted for agreement.

SECTION IV: TIME
a. This act shall take effect beginning in FY 2020.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would very much like some input on the transport fleet situation as well since absent these programs being eliminated what is left and how does that harm our capacity and capability relative to cost?

[Mr. Reactionary]

I would very much like some input on the transport fleet situation as well since absent these programs being eliminated what is left and how does that harm our capacity and capability relative to cost?

I'll look into this.

As for the nuke stuff, I welcome a future discussion on nukes. My aim here wasn't unilateral disarmament but rather phasing out the triad for a dyad with bombers being the least useful leg of the triad imo. But again, if we want to have a bill just on nuclear weapons policy im down for that too. I used to be prez of an anti nuclear weapons club so it could be a fun discussion.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I used to be prez of an anti nuclear weapons club so it could be a fun discussion.

That would deprive of Elmo of his day job, mushroom cloud gazing!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Really would like this discrepancy addressed:

Also Section II.b Clause 7 was removed via amendment in the House yet it is still present in the text.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would very much like some input on the transport fleet situation as well since absent these programs being eliminated what is left and how does that harm our capacity and capability relative to cost?

I'll look into this.

As for the nuke stuff, I welcome a future discussion on nukes. My aim here wasn't unilateral disarmament but rather phasing out the triad for a dyad with bombers being the least useful leg of the triad imo. But again, if we want to have a bill just on nuclear weapons policy im down for that too. I used to be prez of an anti nuclear weapons club so it could be a fun discussion.

Also since Lumine brought it up, what is the cost of restarting production of the M1 Abrams later, versus maintaining production say possibly at reduced levels over that same period?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

My questions?

[Former President tack50]

I would also like a general report on the state of the Atlasian military. We were at war in Korea not too long ago, so I imagine downsizing the army is almost definitely good idea now that Atlasia is finally at peace, but still, how would this cut affect the capabilities of the military?

[Mr. Reactionary]

I would also like a general report on the state of the Atlasian military. We were at war in Korea not too long ago, so I imagine downsizing the army is almost definitely good idea now that Atlasia is finally at peace, but still, how would this cut affect the capabilities of the military?

Next time Im on discord ill DM you some foreign base stuff. I think the maps are in my image gallery.

Edit: so this is a year old and missing a few embassies but this was our foreign bases in green, embassies in red, consulates in blue, other in yellow or black circa spring 2018.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What about hardware though, especially hardware lost and destroyed in the conflict?


And again, I would like to know the cost of stopping and restarting M1 Abrams production later, versus continuous production (perhaps at reduced levels) over the same time frame.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Bump

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What about hardware though, especially hardware lost and destroyed in the conflict?


And again, I would like to know the cost of stopping and restarting M1 Abrams production later, versus continuous production (perhaps at reduced levels) over the same time frame.