Joker (2019) -- Did you see it? Reactions? [Spoilers]

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Obviously this will be spoiler heavy but I'm interested in hearing reactions from anyone who might've seen it.

I saw it this weekend and I had a few immediate reactions:

1. The movie does a really great job of portraying mental illness and the "logical decline" from mental illness to criminality. As a mentally ill person, I'm not usually hyperaware of the portrayal of mental illness in movies, but this one did a great job of not pinning the Joker's actions entirely on his mental illness, but rather that his mental illness facilitated his actions. When I see movies that basically say that mental illness forces people to be criminals, it makes me cringe. So I thought it was neat that this movie established the difference.

2. The class consciousness was really...poignant? And relevant? And I loved it. The very first thing I thought after the movie ended was "wow, I don't think I like Batman anymore." Like, his entire thing is that he has no powers, but he's rich and can afford fancy tech that he beats people up with? And he's a "tortured soul"? Nah, f--k that guy. I'm not saying I'm glad his parents got murdered in front of him when he was young, but his dad kinda totally deserved it for being a conniving prick towards the poor and the mentally ill.

3. Joaquin Phoenix NAILED the part. He was a perfect prequel Joker. I know this portrayal is independent of Heath Ledger's Joker (and all the other Jokers) but Phoenix's prequel Joker into Ledger's main series Joker is, in my mind, the perfect way to depict that character. And while I don't expect there to be a main series of Batman movies with Phoenix as the Joker, I would totally love that as long as they get someone who isn't a dork to play Batman.

How did y'all feel? I was VERY anxious during the more intense parts of the movie and there was a really strange comedic effect where I was almost tempted to laugh when I knew it wasn't appropriate to do so, but not in a "nervous laughter" kind of way? It was certainly a full-body experience. And I was absolutely thinking about the possibility of a shooting during the movie, but by the time the first 30 minutes had passed, I was less worried about it. I'm not sure if anyone else felt the same.

[brucejoel99]

"When you give me the Oscar, could you introduce me as Joker?"

[Joe Biden 2024]

This movie infuriated me on so many levels. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

[John Dule]

People panicked when they thought this thing would give a platform to right-wing incels, but now that it's given a platform to left-wing incels instead, they love it.

[morgankingsley]

Never seen it but I know Batman parent die

[Ban my account ffs!]

Cringing means you’re doing something right.  Just don’t crunge.

[HisGrace]

It wears the 70's movies that influenced it on its sleeve (Taxi Driver and Network to name a few) but it's still good. Excellent performance from Phoenix.

People panicked when they thought this thing would give a platform to right-wing incels, but now that it's given a platform to left-wing incels instead, they love it.

I don't know, I still see a lot of people talking about how "problematic" it is and criticizing it for being about "white male rage" and so on.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Never seen it but I know Batman parent die

SPOILERS!!!

[brucejoel99]

Never seen it but I know Batman parent die

SPOILERS!!!

There's literally a spoiler warning in the thread title.

[Green Line]

It was some kind of left-wing wet dream.  The usual kill all the police, kill the bankers, etc.  Very sad.   The exact opposite of the very good Christopher Nolan trilogy.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Never seen it but I know Batman parent die

SPOILERS!!!

There's literally a spoiler warning in the thread title.

I was making a joke because everybody knows (or should know) that Batman's parents die.

[DINGO Joe]

It wears the 70's movies that influenced it on its sleeve (Taxi Driver and Network to name a few) but it's still good. Excellent performance from Phoenix.

And apparently the King of Comedy too.  Wasn't high on my list to see, but now that I've learned more about it, I'm more interested.  Whether I drag my butt out to the theater or wait for HBO/Netflix whatever, it's definitely on my list.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

This wasnt the same Joker from Suicide Squad and to not finish Justice League, is disappointing. As a result, I boycott this film.

[HisGrace]

It was some kind of left-wing wet dream.  The usual kill all the police, kill the bankers, etc.  Very sad.   The exact opposite of the very good Christopher Nolan trilogy.

Making a movie about a character who does bad things doesn't mean the filmmakers endorse that behavior. Those on the left who think it's "problematic" don't get that either.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Boy, Americans can really obsess themselves over "Whose side is this film/filmmaker on.... WHOSE SIDE??? I've GOTTA to be certain!!"

Well... thanks, Fox News/MSNBC.

Sometimes it's "just a movie". Well, in this case the movie does in fact deal with some political issues, but I doubt you could say that it necessarily entails an endorsement one way or the other. For instance, I don't believe that Todd Phillips is actually supporting killing the rich... considering that Todd Phillips is probably awfully rich himself and all.

Anyway, I agree that Joaquin Phoenix was the best thing about it.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It was some kind of left-wing wet dream.  The usual kill all the police, kill the bankers, etc.  Very sad.   The exact opposite of the very good Christopher Nolan trilogy.

Making a movie about a character who does bad things doesn't mean the filmmakers endorse that behavior. Those on the left who think it's "problematic" don't get that either.

To be fair, I haven't seen that sentiment out of anyone other than certain online publications who got to see the movie early. It was probably out of some sort of link to James Eagan Holmes, the Aurora shooting perpetrator, and his apparent influence from the Joker that led to this somewhat exaggerated concern about similar occurrences.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just saw it. I have a Lot of feelings about it.

Watching it was a deeply unpleasant experience and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't have a high tolerance for misery porn, but I'm actually shocked at its thematic depth. This movie says something real and meaningful about the cruelty at the heart of our society. As an original story not tied to an existing character and fictional universe, this could have been an important (if cynically framed) story. Bringing the Joker into the mix creates all sorts of problems and that's probably where most of the backlash comes from. But still, people who don't recognize that there's a there there, that there's a reason why this movie speaks to a large segment of society and why, yes, many people will see the Joker as the hero even though he obviously isn't, are just like Thomas Wayne in this movie: privileged assholes oblivious to the misery around them.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's good but not great. A respectable knock-off of Scorsese's 70's films.
The people who say it's the "BEST MOVIE EVAH!!!" need to go out and watch more movies.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I saw it and considered it mediocre at best. A waste of $10.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I saw it and considered it mediocre at best. A waste of $10.

Least surprising opinion ever.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The movie itself was good, but not great...which still makes it one of the better DC/Marvel/Sony comic book movies (the only better ones that I can think of are The Dark Knight and Deadpool 2).  Phoenix gave a great performance, although Heath Ledger is still easily the best and the definitive Joker.  I also liked...

- 1) Murray Franklin (De Niro’s character) was usually genuinely funny rather than just in-universe funny; I really enjoyed the clips of his show and was laughing right along with the “studio audience,” especially at the bits making fun of Fleck). 

- 2) That the movie goes out of its way to make it clear that Fleck is not someone folks should sympathize with (as opposed to empathizing when he gets treated in a genuinely unfair way like by that one really big co-worker or by the folks who stole his sign) or see as some sort of anti-establishment hero, instead emphasizing that Arthur Fleck is simply an entitled, delusional, and impotent murderer who belongs in a mental institution.  The movie in no way romanticizes its main character and constantly shows that at his core, Fleck is really just a pathetic and decidedly selfish lunatic.  It would have been much easier to invite the audience to root for Fleck in a “mad as Hell” sort of way and I appreciate that Todd Phillips chose took the harder, but more responsible route. 

- 3) I also really liked how they depicted Thomas Wayne here, really the whole subplot with the Waynes was great. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

- 2) That the movie goes out of its way to make it clear that Fleck is not someone folks should sympathize with (as opposed to empathizing when he gets treated in a genuinely unfair way like by that one really big co-worker or by the folks who stole his sign) or see as some sort of anti-establishment hero, instead emphasizing that Arthur Fleck is simply an entitled, delusional, and impotent murderer who belongs in a mental institution.  The movie in no way romanticizes its main character and constantly shows that at his core, Fleck is really just a pathetic and decidedly selfish lunatic.  It would have been much easier to invite the audience to root for Fleck in a “mad as Hell” sort of way and I appreciate that Todd Phillips chose took the harder, but more responsible route.

...I mean, yeah, Fleck is all of these things. I agree the movie isn't trying to say he's right or that his motives are noble or his actions justified. If it had done that, that would obviously have been deeply f**ked up.

But I think you're missing the point. The movie really isn't about judging whether Fleck is a Good Guy or a Bad Guy. The point of the movie is that Fleck could not have been anything else than what he is given his circumstances. He never had a shot at being the Good Guy, because the society he lives in* will not let him. It is designed in such a way as to ensure that people like him can only be villains or be nothing at all. Eventually, he decides he'd rather be a villain. Sure, we can judge, we can say that's Wrong, but what difference does it make? As long as society will have nothing to offer people like Fleck but indifference, mockery and sheer cruelty, it's no wonder they will make that choice. This is a movie that forces us to confront that. It's one of the rare mainstream audience movies that avoids having a single, easily identifiable villain, and instead casts society itself as the villain. (It does so in an often incredibly crass and exploitative way, mind you, so I'm only praising it to an extent. But still, that's worth something.)

*No meme reference intended. This is why making this a Joker movie really ruins everything.

[Mike88]

Didn't see it, yet. Have tried twice to see it but it's always sold out. I'll have to book tickets, otherwise it's impossible.

[Crumpets]

I saw it. It was definitely well-made. I can imagine it winning plenty of awards. I do see why people didn't like it, and I can easily see someone who is already in a very bad place taking some extremely bad messages from the film, but you could say the same thing about plenty of good and non-controversial movies. It's not an all-time favorite of mine - it's really not the kind of movie I usually watch, and it really was a rough sit, but I'd defend it against its critics.

[James Monroe]

Fantastic movie, one of the best of 2019. Hope this will get all the Oscar wins it deserves.


Wow, this director is really versatile. Directed The Hangover trilogy and this, that's something to take in. Who knew there was hidden talent in directing a character study of a deranged figure.